Gordon Brown

It may not make a difference but the list has gone from 188 to 210 since this post. Hopefully with a bit more publicity it will go up even further. The more people know about it the more votes I reckon, that way it may not make a difference but GB will sure as hell know how people feel on the subject.
 
The difference with John Major was that there was no indication of Thatcher not doing a full term. Don't think she expected the "Night of the Long Knives". As we do not (officially) have a presidential system in this country, the party leader has always been party business. I think when an MP "crosses the floor" there should be a by-election immediately but this is not the case either.
 
Thatcher was kicked out by the parliamentary party.

Blair jumped in accordance with (allegedl) a long term agreement.

Doesn't really matter who's in power, they're all politicians - and all therefore liars.

Yes Minister is a good series to watch!
 
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I'm guessing people who think our economy is a mess, society is in complete meltdown and everything has turned to cack didn't grow up during the Thatcher Years. If you think things are bad now you should have grown up in the 80's when our manufacturing/blue collar industries were destroyed, when whole communities were decimated, unemployment was sky rocketing and most Northern cities were incredibly deprived.

The South East and upper/middle classes might have flourished in the 80's/early 90's but at the expense of the rest of the country.

I'm not saying things are perfect now or that GB is the right man for the job but it's far too easy to look at the past with rose tinted glasses. Things have been much much worse than they are now.

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But I did grow up during the thatcher years and my parents as the product of council estates and still working class, were managing fine, had a decent house, Dad was always in work, we got by fine. We used to use the bus to get about, or walk, and my Mum didn't have to work - though occassionally she did part time when her 3 kids were old enough. She never needed expensive childcare.

Now I'm their age, I can't afford a house of my own, keep paying more and more and more in tax, soon won't be able to find a local post office without driving to one and thats not green, and couldn't get public transport because its just worse than crap round here. If OH and I had kids, no way could I afford not to work as one salary could never keep us and childcare costs are horrendous. Oh and Dad has been out of work more than in work in the last 5 years. AND we are northerners! Its not just me though, its typical of so many people I know who are struggling to make ends meet despite working full time.

Up until about 5 or 6 years ago I'd have managed - but with house prices about tripling where I am, and wages going up less than 10% in comparison, its terrible!

And my sister - who only earns about £14k is actually worse off after the last budget because being single with no kids - the tak changes take MORE money off her - and she is on less than the national average. Its all wrong. The poor are worse and worse off under labour, and the higher paid are better off under their tax system - they are the anti-Robin Hoods!
 
WELL SAID

this focus on paying people for having children also distorts the 'family' values intrinsic to having well balanced children. people 'earn' for breeding brats and then live off the state without having to work - lots of those in one area round me - you see them at 17 (or younger) with 2 kids and no job and in designer gear, smoking their heads off

also - the social problems leading to the need for asbos - can also be laid at the door of families were both parents have to work long hours to try to survive and are therefore not always 'there' when the kids need them, or are too bloody knackered to cope

the 'fabric of society' under labour is far far worse

lots of spin about building hospitals - but they are closing local hospitals faster than ever each year that goes by
soon round me you'll have to travel 15 to 30 miles to find an open A&E

and for those that fly from Gatwick - there used to be an A&E at Crawley - but they shut that so you now would have to travel miles to Redhill - where the ambulances queue in the car park to keep the 'statistics' OK (as you don't count on hospital waiting figures until you are off the ambulance) -= and that ties up ambulances so they cannot answer other calls

we had a minor shunt in our local high street last week - and our A&E is (just) still open but under threat - but the 'orders' from the trust is to send everyone by road 7 miles in towards London - in heavy traffic - so the injured from this shunt instead of being taken half a mile ended up being taken 7 miles and then one ended up in a C. London hospital 'cos St. Heliers was full - and then was released 8 hours later

so a 20 mile trip in two ambulances instead of half a mile in one

CRAZY
 
House prices at the moment are daft but I remember the hell of negative equity in the 90's and beyond in fact. Couldn't afford to sell our old house until 2000 and we had jobs and no dependents. Lots of houses on the estate were repossessed and this was on an estate specifically designed for local first time buyers. As for the ASBO generation, IMO that stems from massive unemployment in the Thatcher years and generations of families where no-one was in work.
 
What about pre-Thatcher? I seem to remember more than a little unrest/economic disaster then too.

In my opinion, Tony Blair's legacy is a society that no longer trusts.
 
very true - if there was a trusting society then why are there

21m CCTV cameras in the world and 4.2m of them (i.e. 20% !!!!!!!!!!!!!) are in Britain - *** 20 % **** of the worlds CCTV cameras are looking at US

there are only 14 people for every CCTV camera in the UK

300 times per day each day you are caught on CCTV on average

*** 78% **** of the HOme Office crime prevention budget has been spent on CCTV in the last decade

I think most of us would rather that budget had been spent on REAL police

however - new labour would rather control and monitor it's citizens then trust them
 
Tony Blair's legacy as captured by The Sun newspaper headline - The Black Pearl, the treasured Cutty Sark 'torched by yobs'. What a fantastic society he has helped create.
 
Yes there was unrest pre-Thatcher. With the three-day week, power cuts and the telly finished at ten but there was not the massive unemployment and the rest as described by Gedenski’s Girl. When I left Scotland to move to the South East in the mid-eighties, it was the first time I met anyone who had voted for Thatcher!
As the post was about GB’s procession to the top job, the usual advice would be to join the party if you want a say on who is the leader but you wouldn’t have had a vote in this situation due to the current Labour MP’s not nominating another candidate. They probably didn’t as it wouldn’t look very good not supporting the long time leader elect and would make it more difficult to resist calls for a General Election. Even if the public attention span isn’t as long as a hamsters, the fact is TB announced he would not serve a full term before the last election and the party was still voted into government. The current Labour MPs obviously think their seats are safer by keeping quiet and I’m sure that Westminster seat is even more comfortable now you don’t have to bother detailing your expenses.
I’m not that bothered by CCTV, hopefully they will help catch the Cutty Sark vandals, but am bothered by electronic surveillance such as proposed for road pricing and ID cards.
 
you are absolutely right - but not about CCTV as there are cameras out there that can and do record sound/speech as well as pictures

so bigbruvver is listening to you as well as watching you already

we already have electronic surveillance from our mobile phones - the gov. can pinpoint exactly where you are from the lock on to a mast even if you don't use your phone (and I bet there are very few of us in a 'rural' sport that don't have mobiles and have them switched on)

labour have, like the original Soviet Union and the old Mao-TseTung China, been a party of "do as I say, not as I do" where the 'elite' have their daschas (Chequers, Dorneywood) and their 'black market' goodies (undisclosed expenses and gifts given to them on foreign trips and not declared).

Mrs B-liar got caught a few times (pearls bought in Hong Kong and not declared on import to the UK for Customs duty to be paid - 10s of £000s of quid there)

At least, like 'em or loathe 'em, the Conservatives are 'honest' about being a bit 'upper class' and that they studied at Eton/Oxford/whereever. It's new labore that hide the fact that they force the populace to use 'ordinary' schools and have their own brats educated at the Catholic Oratory school and force joe public to queue for the NHS whilst they have private dental treatment

ALL the politicians (apart from the 'beast of bolsover' Mr. Skinner) milk the system, it's just that the Conservatives are honestly 'private' schooing/hospitals whilst new laboure spin/lie about using the private sector
 
The Beast of Bolsover was a one off and one of my favourites. He dared to suggest that being an MP was a full time job! As for the Cameroons, to me they seem to be doing their best to remove themselves from the "posh" tag and will say anything in what is a naked grab for power.
 
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