Gosh, I am so excited!! Have spoken to Environmental Health

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Patches

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...and it's all systems go to not just do home boarding, but to actually have a very small boarding kennel facility on site.

The chap I spoke to was SO helpful and supportive. He loves our location and my ideas and gave me many, many helpful hints. He is willing to help me every step of the way to get something up and running and will spend however much time chatting with me, visiting etc for advice.

I am so thrilled. He said with our council the regulations for home boarding or home kennelling are pretty much the same that I might as well go that step further and give myself the option to have kennels.

He's sent me a heap of things through the post to look through and will come and check things out before I submit the license fee and application.

He went as far as to tell me that he wishes there were more smaller kennels around instead of just a handful of large ones with 50 dogs in them. He also said that he is 99% certain I wouldn't need planning because a business already runs from these premises and they'd recommend to the council that they would pass us...so it's a waste of resources to formally need to apply. I'm not quite sure what that was about...but it sounded like he had a lot of clout to say "we like it, we're happy to issue a license...let this business get under way, don't step in it's way".

So...Canine Country Retreat looks to be all systems go, in theory.

As for the kennels themselves. He said I'd be surprised what would be passable for a license and told me not to think I need to spend tens of thousands for a bespoke "posh" kennel. The link I showed you all of the below kennels WOULD pass for a license so long as I made a few alterations.

stustanalisedwinkennel.jpg


All I would need to do would be cover the back of the run and the divider with sheeting, much in the way that the inside has in it. It doesn't have to be GRP, it can be clear perspex or even sheet metal.

stustanalisedwinkennel_01.jpg



I would also need to cover the backs of the doors and the edges of the kennel opening and the front wall of the sleeping kennel bit with the same sheeting too.

He did say that the minimum requirement would be to just cover corners or any area that the dog could effectively chew but I already said I would cover the inner walls "so high".

I can use an empty stable as an isolation pen in case of sick dogs as well, which is cool. Doesn't need to be anywhere specifically posh, just away from the main population.

He told me once word was out that we were doing this it wouldn't take long before we decided to expand as kennels are rarely empty over summer, our area not having much in the immediate vicinity either.

So, all in all, we've alot to go on and even more to work out! I agreed with him that we'd go for just two kennels to start with, because IF the business faltered it would just be a kennel each for Bess and Harvey, should we need them.
 
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I'm very surprised and it would not pass here.
Both for size and construction.
A kennel doesn't count as home boarding under any criteria.
We do have one of the pickiest councils around but I had to close a kennel block because it was timber framed -was tiled floors and sealed block walls but because the frame timbers to the roof couldn't be lined out I had to rebuild.
They can change the rules at any time so you could set up that kennel and then be told "sorry it needs to be this" instead. Double check with whoever does the inspections and will planning.

Bars may look less cage like than mesh but they are not as safe. OK if you only house one size of dog but bars that are safe for a toy poodle might not be safe for a lurcher.
 
I'm not saying we'd have that actual block of kennels, but the idea in principle behind them will pass.

He said that so many people will steam ahead and do something like I plan to do anyway that they might as well work with me on all aspects of the planning in order to allow a fully licensed operation.

The reality is that we might well build something out of block or brick and line the inside and perhaps render the outside as it would look prettier painted. I will buy the runs in sectional pieces.

He asked me why I was thinking of home boarding instead of kennelling. I said "start up costs", stating the outlay was a big risk as I wasn't sure what market there would be for it. He said it didn't need to cost much and they've actually passed a small kennel establishment where the kennels are effectively chipboard, coated with steel sheeting! I was quite stunned at that.

We are going to have a good look around and weigh up our options. As the kennels are going to be situated on our garden, I do want them to look nice.

I know kennelling and home boarding are different things, but the licensing fee is the same and the requirements for isolation areas and safety standards around the home are almost the same as the standards for the kennels. He definitely seemed more keen on my having kennels.
 
Oh fab, I love it when you get to speak to someone so helpful and enthusiastic! Sounds like he definitely knows the ins and outs of your local council's system too :D Sounds like a good chap to keep in touch with!

Keep us all posted on the developments (and you do understand your website will need to have gratuitous pics of Harvey and Bess modelling the kennels?! :p)
 
I meant to add, for s4sugar, that we can run home boarding alongside the kennels this way. There is a potential to have dogs in the house for the day, like daycare, or even overnight if we have an owner contact us with specific requirements which are against kennelling.

Doing it this way we will have more options available. I did ask the man today what the minimum sizes are for kennels, and he said there were no dimensions set in stone, as such. I will see what the literature states, if anything, when it comes through.
 
I gave you a link to the model licence conditions in an earlier thread - there are minimum sizes and construction requirements.
 
s4sugar said:
I gave you a link to the model licence conditions in an earlier thread - there are minimum sizes and construction requirements.
Click to expand...

I will have another look. I'm not doubting what your concerns. I do hope you don't think I am.

I was merely re-telling what he'd said to me today on the phone but am acutely aware that when it comes down to seeing the "finished project" or firm plans there are bound to be issues he will want me to address in order to gain a license. As I said previously, I will await the arrival of the official literature as I will then be best placed to work out what I need to construct to suit the needs of boarding dogs.

I have drawn up a basic layout plan on Paintshop. It's subject to change at any given time and not to any specific dimensions yet as I was going to speak to the man and ask his opinion.

What do you think?

36695_409462837230_562852230_4918494_2311189_n.jpg
 
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Here Patches can you persuade the chap to let you have a large mobile home too....me and the dogs are on our way! :p :D
 
If you have to go through the run to the sleeping area you will have problems with some dogs as they will come to the front when you want them inside.
Poor design is one reason some kennels have smelly dogs but I'll let you have a think about it and you can PM me when you've worked out the problem here :)

Don't use wood - your current council staff may permit it but it only takes a job change and you're stuck.
 
Thank you. I would value anyone's input though, no need to test me. :p ;)

I'm obviously not experienced. I am the first to say I've no idea what to do construction wise at the moment but I want to inform myself as I would like to construct something that is suitable.

The floor would be concrete based, as a footing, but I am happy to tile it. The run can be roofed too if need be and all sides could be modular mesh panels if this is better. I was planning to get it to run off to the front so that it wouldn't puddle down the centre when washed out.

Like I said, this was just a quick "would this work" idea and subject to change/improvement. I certainly don't have a builder in the back yard as I speak.

Can easily put a door to the outside wall of each sleeping area. Quite alot of the designs I'd seen on the internet didn't do that, but I can totally understand why it would be a good idea. :)
 
Second layout idea...not sure which planners would prefer as a basic concept with obvious room for change. It just gives me another idea to "throw" at them.

Again not to scale as obviously the run area would be much longer than the kennels. Would also probably buy the centre divider, if we went with this plan, with a solid area of zinc/metal/whatever it is the panels use to give dogs a bit of privacy in the event they dislike each other.

36787_409473627230_562852230_4918650_1269712_n.jpg
 
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Wooden log cabin style constructions do look cosy and pretty, but I think there would be less maintenance with a more permanent structure, not just from a wood staining point of view, but from a dog chewable issue.

The materials used and overall construction and sizes would be built under the supervision/approval of the local dog warden man that handles the licensing of any boarding-type establishment.

I'm quite excited. Even my hubby thinks it's worthwhile spending more now as the potential for a "nicer" structure to pay for itself over a shorter length of time is there. Now, that really is saying something, coming from a farmer of Scottish Descent! :eek: :p
 
That is very exciting! :D

S4Sugar, you are coming across as something of a smart-@rse on this thread...:rolleyes:
 
Re your run roofs, I think an all solid roof would make the kennels quite dark. Don't know if you noticed my runs at the meet up, but I have steel box profile sheet roofs with a couple of plastic sheets. Allows natural daylight in but unlike an all plastic roof doesn't make them a sweatbox in hot weather.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Re your run roofs, I think an all solid roof would make the kennels quite dark. Don't know if you noticed my runs at the meet up, but I have steel box profile sheet roofs with a couple of plastic sheets. Allows natural daylight in but unlike an all plastic roof doesn't make them a sweatbox in hot weather.
Click to expand...


I must admit, some of the kennels with runs I've seen do look dark. I had thought it was due to the runs being so small, but come to think of it, you do have a very valid point.

So the roofing we use on the cow sheds, with their plastic pieces for daylight would probably be more suitable?
 
Spudlet said:
That is very exciting! :D

S4Sugar, you are coming across as something of a smart-@rse on this thread...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Really - I've run a boarding kennels for 20 years and used to teach animal care at the local agricultural college plus I know kennel owners around the country and know how planners and EHO's can change things.
A friend in Scotland was told to lock his boarders out in the runs rather than have hatches open in winter as the inside temperature dropped when the hatches were open!
I had an EHO who wanted the eves vents blocking and sealing as creeping snow could get in through them - when there were 3'-5' drifts outside. My offer to block them with rubber/plastic flaps for winter fell on deaf ears and I had to go to her superior with a letter from my vet that the ventilation was needed in warm weather. She came back with one large kennel she knew used extractor fans at one end - this is actually not allowed.
I got to keep my ventilation.

The model licence conditions can be imposed at any time by any councils that have not yet done so. This has already happened in some areas - usually when a new inspector come in. Only premises constructed before the latest act may get some leeway, anything built now will have to make changes.
It is much safer and cheaper to get it right first time than to be forced to rebuild.
I live in a very strict area (& pay a huge licence fee compared to some). Some councils are much sloppier but I know of one council that allowed timber chalets for dogs and then changed their mind.

You can buy UPC facia cladding to use instead of wood. I would not use a manufactured divider as they allow fluids to flow under and the metal ones boiing when a dog jumps on them.
Run roofs do need translucent areas unless the runs get light from more than one side.
If you can't sit in the run and read a paper at sunset without artificial lighting they are too dark but you have to balance this against the greenhouse effect if you choose the wrong clear sheeting.


Turn Patches position round - say she was planning a livery yard for only Shetlands and miniature horses and was planning to make the stables 8' x 8' 6'6" high. If (when?) the much mused licence comes in these would fail to meet minimum standards.
I'm trying to save her from wasting money.
 
I don't care how much experience you have, it's the little 'guess what the problem is' post - ok good for you, you know - why not share that instead of trying to make someone feel small and stupid? That may not have been what you intended but that's how you looked - mean and ungracious.
 
I welcome all any constructive criticism or advice when it's aimed at steering me towards setting something up that is of a higher standard than I might otherwise have thought of.

I would NEVER have given it a thought to use upvc fascia cladding, for example. Fabulous idea s4sugar. Thank you.

I know what you mean about the runs not reaching the floor but that does seem a pretty standard thing with most places. I thought there HAD to be a gap under the bar to allow water to drain through...even between pens? Someone on here who works at a boarding kennels (Kirstyhen I think) commented recently that some dogs can steal the bedding etc (I think that's what was said) from neighbouring runs due to this design concept.

The local kennel to me has been established since 1982 and has concrete runs and kennels. The kennels are in an internal building, the runs outside. The runs aren't large either. I've still not got back to s4sugar's link regarding kennel sizing, but looking at the pictures of the local kennels on the net I wouldn't call the runs "roomy". They are always fully booked, so it can't put off clients. I am pretty sure that no dog actually does much in the way of exercising itself in the "run", however big it is, so it's probably a waste of resources to make runs significantly bigger than the standards require. I don't think Harvey would run around in a kennel and run. He'd likely just lie down or sit and bark in the corner.

When we've got the literature and formed some ideas, I fully intend to get the man out from the EHO and get him to firm up our plans with us before we proceed to construction.
 
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`Scuse me Spudlet,but s4sugar is just trying to stop Patches making an expensive mistake.I too ran a boarding kennel for many many years,the housing rules have changed..wood is completely unacceptable,and Patches,sooner or later will discover this. The EVO is not a "planning" guy..and there certainly DOES need planning permission.For instance any nieghbours will be informed and given a chance to object on noise grounds.Some councils even demand a septic tank for the run off of the kennels..if they get difficult..oh boy ,difficult they are. Sure ,it`s a nice idea.One other thing..at a licenced boarding kennel ,of any size,there has to be 24 hour human attendance,that`s the law.Think hard about that one Patches,it does`nt half clip your wings.
 
Interesting point about the 24 hour attendance, I knew that used to be the case many moons ago when my grandmother ran kennels, but wasn't sure nowadays so didn't say anything. Presume it doesn't include home boarding as I know of people who do it but are not there 24/7.
 
I didn't know that, but thankfully am not concerned about the 24 hour a day attendance. There is always someone on the farm, be it myself or the in-laws/hubby. The farm is run in that way. We're often moaned at by the in-laws if we go out to Pony Club because they never leave the farm gates and can't understand why we want to! lol

Obviously I presume I would be allowed to go food shopping, out for a ride on the horse/bike etc at times? The kennels near us are heavily into showing, so they obviously go out and about. I presume it is, therefore, ok to leave someone else on site?

We don't have neighbours in the true sense of the word. Certainly not close enough to raise valid objections (so the man told me). Our neighbours are just farmers whose land touches ours but the farm houses are quite some distance away. We already have a septic tank, which he pointed out was a good thing and we have the ability/necessary licensing already in place to spread "dirty" water from a soak away pit filled up by washing out the pens etc.

I don't really know what his job title is. He told me there are three dog wardens and himself. He's office based and deals with the legalities of things etc.

We have already decided NOT to use wood, I'd like to point out. Yes the man told me it wouldn't be a problem so long as it had chew strips on the corners etc, but from a maintenance point of view it would be less work/worry if it's a more solid structure.

The exact materials are undecided. We can buy the Tolvi system, but I think I'd prefer something that looks a little less clinical from the exterior, even if it's similarly fitted out internally.
 
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How exciting - sounds very positive and often planners are very supportive of "cottage industries".

I'll pm you a link to my ex's website - he runs a fab country boarding kennels that you may find interesting and there are some lovely pics and videos of the guests playing in his fields and woodland :)
 
Thanks Mollichop for the link.

The dogs all look to be having a blast with their new friends. All happy with lots of waggy tails.

:)
 
As long as there is a responsible adult on site..one capable of handling an emergency that is fine,but if not,then even going to the shop is out.That is the difference between a boarding licence and a breeding one;the minute you are responsible for someone else`s animal things change radically..bit unfair really as so many dogs are owned by full time workers.Oh and one other thing whilst I think about it..kennels must be heated,the easiest way are heat lamps over bed areas,oh,AND separate food preparation kitchen is a must too.It really can be very off putting. However,to avoid ending up in a loony bin ..never ever employ any staff ,could write a book about that scenario !!
 
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