Grade 1 Heart murmur 4 year old

[Abi90]

Some of you may be following my thread in The Tack Room about my homebred 4 year old, which started off as a happy thread until the vet came out to do his teeth and found a Grade 1 heart murmur. I was initially not worried as I’ve had a horse with one before, and she said they would not usually investigate anything 3 and under. And she would check with a more senior vet as she was concerned because of his age.

3 days later she rings me back to say that the senior vet agrees that it is worrying in a 4 year old and could be significant and result in an enlarged heart and a heart attack. She made it sound like this was imminent, so I’ve ceased all riding for now. But she left a voicemail so haven’t been able to have a chat.

I was already thinking that a scan might be worth it (he’s insured) to know what was going on. And has anyone dealt with this? I’ve had, and know horses, with heart murmurs before but I’ve never known vets make this much of a fuss and to be honest I’ve gone from feeling not too worried to quite upset

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I wouldn’t bother about a grade 1 heart murmur in any horse. Kia had a pretty bad one and as long as I kept him fit enough for what we were doing the vet said it wouldn’t be a problem. They were right.

 

[Abi90]

I wouldn’t bother about a grade 1 heart murmur in any horse. Kia had a pretty bad one and as long as I kept him fit enough for what we were doing the vet said it wouldn’t be a problem. They were right.

Ordinarily I wouldn’t worrh. Its the vets that are worrying about it. They said as he is 4 that it could actually be very significant and result in a heart attack. I’m a bit taken aback as everything I’ve read says normally grade 1 murmurs in young horses are insignificant.

Do I just go with it as he’s insured? Or do I get a second opinion from another vet?

No vet has mentioned it before, but they may have just not deemed it significant

 

[Abi90]

I also had a fairly young dog die of heart failure in October so its a bit of a sensitive subjecy

 

[nutjob]

I had one who arrived at age 3 from Germany with a respiratory infection and a heart murmur. I was pretty stressed but the vet wasn't overly concerned, once the infection cleared up and he'd settled in after his long journey he was OK. I've had him 10 years now and it hasn't reappeared. I assume yours has had injections before and that his heart has been checked at that time and was OK. Unless they have some specific reason why they think this one is so serious I'd wait it out for a bit and then get a second opinion.

 

[southerncomfort]

Since this hasn't ever been detected by any other vet, I'd maybe get a second opinion from a vet whose opinion you trust before you start paying out for scans and suchlike.

 

[HopOnTrot]

If he’s insured I would investigate now as it will likely be excluded in 12 months time.

At least then you’ll have an answer.

 

[dixie]

Since this hasn't ever been detected by any other vet, I'd maybe get a second opinion from a vet whose opinion you trust before you start paying out for scans and suchlike.

Yes this.

 

[Abi90]

Yes this.

I am tempted to do this. I’ve still got a year to investigate if I need to.

I’m totally stumped as to why they are getting so excited, other than his age, but often young horses grow out of it.

He’s been seen every year for vaccinations and sedated several times and no one has mentioned it, she said that concerned her as she was worried that now he’s been backed his heart might not be coping with the exercise… or its transient, or he’s had a mild infection, or the other vets didn’t deem it significant!

I’m going to lunge or long rein for now in just in case he is a out to drop dead, until I’ve spoken to another vet

 

[HopOnTrot]

Maybe they didn’t detect it because it wasn’t there before? Retest and go from there?

 

[Abi90]

Maybe they didn’t detect it because it wasn’t there before? Retest and go from there?

Quite possibly was not. This was one of the reasons she was worried. That he’d started work and it had appeared

I think I’m going to get a second opinion from a more experienced vet then go from there

 

[ihatework]

If he’s insured I would investigate now as it will likely be excluded in 12 months time.

At least then you’ll have an answer.

Whilst my first reaction is WTF is the vet doing worrying you like this …. It’s now on your horses record. Irrespective of investigation or not it will be excluded at renewal. So you may as well investigate to put your mind at rest (or if vet not over reacting at least you know what you are dealing with)

 

[Abi90]

I feel like I shouldn’t be riding at the minute, but that also feels like an overreaction

 

[Abi90]

I feel a bit stupid for getting worked up but I have had a horse with a heart murmur before, and the vets were so unbothered by it

 

[dixie]

I would keep on riding albeit more gently so that he’s in the similar workload when the second vet sees him.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I think investigating now is the right thing or getting a second opinion, depends how much you trust your vets. Second opinion wouldn't hurt. Is there a more experienced vet at that clinic who could see him?

Really hope its nothing significant, he's a lovely boy!

 

[Abi90]

Booked for a recommended, experienced vet from the practise the yard owner uses to come out for a second opinion on Wednesday. If she agrees, after hearing it, with the very junior vet then I will investigate

 

[SEL]

Booked for a recommended, experienced vet from the practise the yard owner uses to come out for a second opinion on Wednesday. If she agrees, after hearing it, with the very junior vet then I will investigate

I think that's a good plan. If it is nothing to worry about - and we're all hoping so - then you can get something from 2nd option vet for insurers

 

[Abi90]

Did some lunging and groundwork today. On the plus side, he seems much happier with the bit since having his teeth done. Spoke to other vet, she’s coming out to have a look but is also confused as to what all the fuss is about. Vet is out Wednesday so I will update then

 

[Abi90]

On my way for the second opinion. First vet just left a voice mail to follow up, I’m ignoring that for now to see what second vet says.

I’ve just moved back to the area and turns out first vet does not have the best reputation to be fair, they did an excellent job on his teeth, I can’t fault that

 

[Abi90]

New vet heard a tiny whoosh on a couple of beats, but she said “that’s just a horse at rest” but could hear nothing on her extra sensitive stethascope, she diagnosed an “over enthusiastic young vet”

Conclusion, no heart murmur, even a grade 1

 

[eggs]

Great news . I bet you are very glad you got a second opinion.

 

[SEL]

New vet heard a tiny whoosh on a couple of beats, but she said “that’s just a horse at rest” but could hear nothing on her extra sensitive stethascope, she diagnosed an “over enthusiastic young vet”

Conclusion, no heart murmur, even a grade 1

Phew!

Although I bet you're quietly cursing the young vet....

 

[ihatework]

New vet heard a tiny whoosh on a couple of beats, but she said “that’s just a horse at rest” but could hear nothing on her extra sensitive stethascope, she diagnosed an “over enthusiastic young vet”

Conclusion, no heart murmur, even a grade 1

An over enthusiastic young vet with a lot still to learn, both in diagnosing and communicating!

 

[Abi90]

Phew!

Although I bet you're quietly cursing the young vet....

A little. But also the senior vet she went to for advice who said to bring him in for a work up without even hearing it. That’s a supervisory issue as she did ask for advice.

So go straight on, no one around so it was my first time riding completely alone! Good as gold! Better than his mother

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Fab news! So pleased for you.

 

[Abi90]

Thanks everyone. Whilst I was mostly sure this would be the outcome, or rather the vet wouldn’t be bothered about a low grade murmur. I am overjoyed!

Now to have an awkward conversation with other vet about why we won’t be having his heart scanned and doing an exercise ECG!!

 

[Lamehorses]

Is your horse insured? If it is, make sure there is no listing of heart murmur on your vet record, you would need to inform insurer & probably get an exclusion, if you fail to tell them it could be classed as insurance fraud.

 

[Abi90]

Is your horse insured? If it is, make sure there is no listing of heart murmur on your vet record, you would need to inform insurer & probably get an exclusion, if you fail to tell them it could be classed as insurance fraud.

Yes and I’ve asked second opinion vet to write something up to say he doesn’t have one

 

[Jeni the dragon]

That's great news! So pleased for you both!