rosieapple1
Member
Is he good enough for a pure dressage horse? (Would like something that jumps but priority is dressage.)
Grafenstolz
- Thread starter rosieapple1
- Start date
mik
Well-Known Member
I like him, he is a great allrounder, depends on you mare and the results are always interesting!!!!!! He does have some nice youngstock.
maestro
Well-Known Member
I think possible Proset would be a better bet. He has done pure dressage but has jumpers in his bloodlines. Quite a few seem to be appearing eventing looking smart, which suggest if you want to they can.
magic104
Well-Known Member
I am sure there are some of his offspring on this link, so you can judge for youself
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Grafenstolz&aq=f
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Grafenstolz&aq=f
CrazyMare
Well-Known Member
I had the ride on a cracking Pro Set gelding as a 5/6 yr old. He is now back with his owner, and going to go out at Elem/Med soon, and jumping 1.20m with his owner - who is terrified of jumping.
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
I second Proset as a dressage horse that can produce jumpers. I have a 5 year old Proset mare, champion at her KWPN grading and not only does she move like a dream, but she seriously jumps too.
The champion of last years BEF Futurity was a yearling by Proset, in the showjumping section.
The champion of last years BEF Futurity was a yearling by Proset, in the showjumping section.
volatis
Well-Known Member
Or for a dressage horse with super jumping genes, I love Chequille Z of Emma Hindles. http://www.brookhousestud.com/2007/_html/main.php?taal=en&&page=hengst&&id=6
magic104
Well-Known Member
The question is "Is he good enough for a pure dressage horse?" So by everyone answering with other stallions Proset in particular, you dont think Grafestolz is good enough for pure dressage? As someone who knows a Proset youngster I dont disagree with the comments. But the question just seems to have been sidestepped.....
Springs
Well-Known Member
He is eneterd at the stallion parade at Bramham on the 12th June so that would be a good opportunity to assess the potential.
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The question is "Is he good enough for a pure dressage horse?" So by everyone answering with other stallions Proset in particular, you dont think Grafestolz is good enough for pure dressage? As someone who knows a Proset youngster I dont disagree with the comments. But the question just seems to have been sidestepped.....
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think the question has been side stepped at all, I think by posters offering alternatives, the answer is there for all to see.
With the heated way posts about G have deteriorated in the past, it is probably better to keep ones opinions about him to ones self.
The question is "Is he good enough for a pure dressage horse?" So by everyone answering with other stallions Proset in particular, you dont think Grafestolz is good enough for pure dressage? As someone who knows a Proset youngster I dont disagree with the comments. But the question just seems to have been sidestepped.....
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think the question has been side stepped at all, I think by posters offering alternatives, the answer is there for all to see.
With the heated way posts about G have deteriorated in the past, it is probably better to keep ones opinions about him to ones self.
madmare22
Well-Known Member
i think he is good enough for a pure dressage horse. He is currently woring PSG and will be aimed at GP later in the year. Depends what you put him to though as with all stallions.
billyslad
Well-Known Member
Youre choice of stallion will only be the start , what type of mare , is she good enough , will the offspring be born safely , raised and broken properly and then produced correctly ? and will it stay sound once it is competing ?
A good stallion is only one piece of the jigsaw but Grafenstolz wouldnt be a bad place to start
A good stallion is only one piece of the jigsaw but Grafenstolz wouldnt be a bad place to start
rosieapple1
Member
Thank you for your replies, Emma Hindles is lovely but i would like to try and use a british based stallion. Pro Set i know is fantastic but i have met a few too quirky ones! Does anyone know where i can view some showmaker offsprings?
volatis
Well-Known Member
I have a Showmaker colt, now a yearling. Would be a very different stamp from Grafenstolz.
My mare was a 3/4 Thoroughbred mare but a good big strong mare. The colt, although going to be a big boy is a real quality type with the most beautiful head.
My mare was a 3/4 Thoroughbred mare but a good big strong mare. The colt, although going to be a big boy is a real quality type with the most beautiful head.
rosieapple1
Member
I know very different - but different good i think. I know everyone worries about his hind leg? Could you PM me some pics of colt?My 1st choice has been san amour but been told i have to have back up!
Touchwood
Well-Known Member
yes, you definately need back up if you want to use san amour! People in this country stand precious little chance of getting chilled semen. There is frozen san amour semen available here though.
volatis
Well-Known Member
I dont have any recent photos of the Showmaker colt but this is his web page
http://www.volatis.co.uk/defiant.html
This was about 2 months old
and a rather blurred photo frm the Futurity
and this was a few weeks old
http://www.volatis.co.uk/defiant.html
This was about 2 months old
and a rather blurred photo frm the Futurity
and this was a few weeks old
boxffrogs
Active Member
Grafenstolz actually is a dressage horse, and he qualified for the Bundeschampionats as a six year old for dressage (as well as jumping and eventing), and you have to get all 8's and above, so he was a dressage horse as a six year old. He was PSG as a seven year old so he was a dressage horse then. He is working at PSG ready to go on to GP early next year, so he's a dressage horse now.
His breeding is all dressage, being by Polarion who was ridden by Laura Bechtolsheimer, who also sired Kaiserkult and Kaiserdom. Grafenstolz' Sister also produced the Pidgley family's Grand Passion, who I think has been sold back to Germany.
So to answer your question with some facts, yes he is good enough for a pure dressage horse. All the other stuff you get with him is a bonus, such as good mentality and a super canter and walk.
All three of my mares have taken first time to him and my vet tested the 24 hour old semen as over 80% motile. I heard of one mare who ovulated four days after insemination (with 24 hour old semen) and got pregnant. So he'll save you vets fees as well.
I found the owner to be very helpful, knowledgeable and courteous, even on a Sunday evening when I called him.
His breeding is all dressage, being by Polarion who was ridden by Laura Bechtolsheimer, who also sired Kaiserkult and Kaiserdom. Grafenstolz' Sister also produced the Pidgley family's Grand Passion, who I think has been sold back to Germany.
So to answer your question with some facts, yes he is good enough for a pure dressage horse. All the other stuff you get with him is a bonus, such as good mentality and a super canter and walk.
All three of my mares have taken first time to him and my vet tested the 24 hour old semen as over 80% motile. I heard of one mare who ovulated four days after insemination (with 24 hour old semen) and got pregnant. So he'll save you vets fees as well.
I found the owner to be very helpful, knowledgeable and courteous, even on a Sunday evening when I called him.
Diggory
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
.........So to answer your question with some facts, yes he is good enough for a pure dressage horse. All the other stuff you get with him is a bonus, such as good mentality and a super canter and walk.
[/ QUOTE ]
Very interesting, Boxffrogs. I thought, however, that "a good mentality, a super canter and walk" were actually prerequisites for a seriosuly good pure dressage horse. I would certainly never see them as bonuses.
.........So to answer your question with some facts, yes he is good enough for a pure dressage horse. All the other stuff you get with him is a bonus, such as good mentality and a super canter and walk.
[/ QUOTE ]
Very interesting, Boxffrogs. I thought, however, that "a good mentality, a super canter and walk" were actually prerequisites for a seriosuly good pure dressage horse. I would certainly never see them as bonuses.
FrodoBeutlin
Well-Known Member
I think he definitely is good enough to be a pure dressage horse!
He qualified for the 6-yr-old Bundeschampionat, which means a score of at least 80%. The standards there are unbelievably high, and surely the dressage ability of a horse who can qualify for the Bundeschampionat cannot be doubted.
He qualified for the 6-yr-old Bundeschampionat, which means a score of at least 80%. The standards there are unbelievably high, and surely the dressage ability of a horse who can qualify for the Bundeschampionat cannot be doubted.
alleycat
Well-Known Member
The Bundeschampionat is effectively a Futurity, surely?
As such it would suggest, but not guarantee, a young stallion's future worth as a sire or a competition horse; so whilst his ability at that time, at that level, against his own age-group cannot be doubted, an estimate of his actual worth as a breeding animal should surely be subject to revision as his career progresses and his foals appear.
As such it would suggest, but not guarantee, a young stallion's future worth as a sire or a competition horse; so whilst his ability at that time, at that level, against his own age-group cannot be doubted, an estimate of his actual worth as a breeding animal should surely be subject to revision as his career progresses and his foals appear.
FrodoBeutlin
Well-Known Member
Yes, of course, but if he is now at PSG I'd say his career is progressing pretty well
What I was trying to say is that he really is a fab horse. In 2006, when he qualified for all three disciplines, he did make history.
As for the progeny, I have no idea. I only know one filly from him (born last year, she was the first filly from him to be born in Italy), who's absolutely gorgeous, moves really well and was sold as a 6-month-old, but apart from her I haven't seen anybody else.
What I was trying to say is that he really is a fab horse. In 2006, when he qualified for all three disciplines, he did make history.
As for the progeny, I have no idea. I only know one filly from him (born last year, she was the first filly from him to be born in Italy), who's absolutely gorgeous, moves really well and was sold as a 6-month-old, but apart from her I haven't seen anybody else.
alleycat
Well-Known Member
Any links to the filly, FB, and her mother?
FrodoBeutlin
Well-Known Member
Yes, I said so! The filly was bred by a friend of mine, but I am not sure about the mother -- she did event in Italy but don't know up to what.
chris_j
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, of course, but if he is now at PSG I'd say his career is progressing pretty well
[/ QUOTE ]
Has he actually competed at PSG then?? There's an awful lot of "training at PSG" level stallions around but unless they have gone down the centre line at the level then it's neither here nor there IMO
Yes, of course, but if he is now at PSG I'd say his career is progressing pretty well
[/ QUOTE ]
Has he actually competed at PSG then?? There's an awful lot of "training at PSG" level stallions around but unless they have gone down the centre line at the level then it's neither here nor there IMO
FrodoBeutlin
Well-Known Member
Ooops, I don't know if he actually competed at S level. I assumed that, after 2004, he concentrated on eventing?
alleycat
Well-Known Member
Sorry FB- I wasn't very clear! I wasn't intending to quiz you on personal links but I was wondering if you had a picture we could see, or some information on the mare's breeding; it could give some clues as to what kind of mare G. suits.
FrodoBeutlin
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I misunderstood.
The mare is (and I quote) "an old-fashioned Selle Francais by Robespierre-Arlequin-Ibrahim xx" (and I'm sorry, but I don't know any of these!).
I can get a picture of the foal off facebook but I think I need to ask friend's permission first
The mare is (and I quote) "an old-fashioned Selle Francais by Robespierre-Arlequin-Ibrahim xx" (and I'm sorry, but I don't know any of these!).
I can get a picture of the foal off facebook but I think I need to ask friend's permission first
alleycat
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
rosieapple1
Member
Thank you - any pics would be good! Really really useful post!