Grand National: According to Pete owner will not return

AMH said:
I think it's a little unfair to insinuate the owners of According To Pete didn't take into account the risks involved when they entered the Grand National with him. .
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Of course they took the risks into account. They knew that he had at least a 1 in 100 chance of not coming back alive and they decided to take that risk.

I'm sure they are genuinely devastated, but is it unfair to say they knew the risks and chose to take a gamble that it wouldn't be their horse? No.

Originally posted by EKW
If any one of you had a horse that worked it's way up through the levels and had a crack at the big time could you honestly say you wouldn't let it take it's chance?
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yes. I can honestly say that, like the owners of the showjumper Milton who would not let him take the risk of flying abroad to compete at the highest level (Soeul Olympics??) I would not put a horse of mine at a risk of at least 1 in 100 that he would not return alive.

And it's not "letting it take it's chance" it's "making it take yours".
 
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I feel terribly sorry for his owners. There is no doubt they feel wretched and I cannot believe anyone would think otherwise. They paid the ultimate price sadly for everyone.

I do not believe however you can compare the GN to any other race. Year on year it is criticised for the high number of runners. It is an extremely high risk race. I believe that this is the point people were making. Winning the GN is not necessarily the pinnacle of a horse's career and there are many racehorse owners who won't risk their horse in that race. It is ultimately all about money in thsi race. Of course eventing and show jumping are high risk sports, but look how quick if the going is bad those riders and owners pull their horses - they won't risk them injuring themselves. That was the point I believe many were making.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Of course eventing and show jumping are high risk sports, but look how quick if the going is bad those riders and owners pull their horses - they won't risk them injuring themselves. That was the point I believe many were making.
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This is a great point. My friend has just bought an 18 year old Grade A showjumper mare. She hasn't a mark on her and looks about 10. Her owner/rider is well known for turning up at events, looking at the ground and driving away without unloading her horses.

Yes, some showjumpers are treated wrongly and pushed too hard and pay for it. But in the Grand National, the owners of every single horse in the race are all behaving the same way - ignoring the risks to the horse in the pursuit of either money or glory, or both, for themselves.
 
EKW said:
This thread was exactly my point the other week on the Sir Roscoe thread in CR. An event horse died through injury at an event. The owner/rider apparently loved it, worked so hard with it and was aiming for Badminton? And yet she still took it out round a cross country course and thus to it's demise. I got absolutely slated on that thread for asking why there was nothing but condolances for her when racing always bares the brunt of attack.

What you people here are doing is attacking the horses owner for wanting their horse to compete to the best of his ability and yet you never question any other equestrian sports.

Hypocrites.

I feel desperately sorry for Pete's owners. His girls were standing at the collecting point desperately seeking their horse. Waiting for him to come cantering home or to be lead out from the middle of the track. Then the call came in to say there was no choice but to put him down due to sustained injuries. The girls crumpled. They couldn't move. They had to be guided away and taken out of the public eye and you can be sure that they weren't seeing a thing or noticing where they were going. Total and utter devestation. They never even got to say goodbye to him.

If any one of you had a horse that worked it's way up through the levels and had a crack at the big time could you honestly say you wouldn't let it take it's chance? In any dicipline? The Nelsons doted on that horse and yes, because in racing you know that there is a chance that your horse won't be coming home you still always think, more out of willful praying, that yours will always return home to you.

Please just cut them some slack.
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This. I have nothing else to add, except RIP Pete, and Synch & thoughts to connections.
 
cptrayes said:
... ignoring the risks to the horse in the pursuit of either money or glory, or both, for themselves.
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Sadly I think it is also the danger/thrill of this race that some people enjoy :(

ETA: The punters that is, not the the owners/trainers/riders
 
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EKW said:
What you people here are doing is attacking the horses owner for wanting their horse to compete to the best of his ability and yet you never question any other equestrian sports.

Hypocrites.

.
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I am not a hypocrite and I would question any sport that produces the number of horse deaths that National Hunt Racing does.

This is a question of predictability. Event horses die so rarely on the course that any one death is not predictable. National Hunt Horses die so often on the course that any one death is just "one of those things". It's so common that things are organised so that the race actually continues while the horse is dead on the floor, dying or being humanely destroyed.

If the same percentage of eventers died on the cross country as National Hunt horses die on the racecourse, eventing would cease to exist as a sport in its current form.
 
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YasandCrystal said:
I feel terribly sorry for his owners. There is no doubt they feel wretched and I cannot believe anyone would think otherwise. They paid the ultimate price sadly for everyone.

I do not believe however you can compare the GN to any other race. Year on year it is criticised for the high number of runners. It is an extremely high risk race. I believe that this is the point people were making. Winning the GN is not necessarily the pinnacle of a horse's career and there are many racehorse owners who won't risk their horse in that race. It is ultimately all about money in thsi race. Of course eventing and show jumping are high risk sports, but look how quick if the going is bad those riders and owners pull their horses - they won't risk them injuring themselves. That was the point I believe many were making.
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I agree with Yas. And I've said it before (sorry to keep repeating myself :o), I support NH racing, so I'm not anti-racing as such, but the GN is a risk apart and everyone knows it. Doesn't matter how good a jumper/stayer your horse is, anything can happen. And while if I had a 4* eventer I might let him go round Badminton, I wouldn't let my mythical top chaser run in the GN.

So while I feel immensely sorry for the connections of S and ATP, they knew darned well the risk they were taking in running their horses in this race.
 
Wagtail said:
Why are people saying one in a hundred risk of death? The last two years it has been a one in twenty.
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I'm trying not to be inflammatory Wagtail, so I evened it out over several years as maybe 1 in 100, which I think is still far too high.
 
A moving post, EKW, and as I said, I really do feel sorry for the connections of According to Pete. I understand they are devastated.

But

EKW said:
What you people here are doing is attacking the horses owner for wanting their horse to compete to the best of his ability and yet you never question any other equestrian sports.

Hypocrites.

I feel desperately sorry for Pete's owners. His girls were standing at the collecting point desperately seeking their horse. Waiting for him to come cantering home or to be lead out from the middle of the track. Then the call came in to say there was no choice but to put him down due to sustained injuries. The girls crumpled. They couldn't move. They had to be guided away and taken out of the public eye and you can be sure that they weren't seeing a thing or noticing where they were going. Total and utter devestation. They never even got to say goodbye to him.
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Those girls took care of him. They loved him, but had nothing to do with the decision to run him.

If any one of you had a horse that worked it's way up through the levels and had a crack at the big time could you honestly say you wouldn't let it take it's chance? In any dicipline?
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Yes! The horse doesn't care that it doesn't get the chance to make the big time. The glory is all for the humans, not the horses.
 
I don't really know what to say to sway this argument, however these horses are bred to race, without the gN would the whole jump season go to the dogs?

I think the only real way to make it safer is to make the jumps bigger, sounds odd but they could not just go crashing through them.

So sad that two well loved horses were lost, but it is still sad even when lesser horses go to rainbow bridge.
 
Maybe I should rephrase some of my last post:

If you had paid thousands upon thousands of pounds for your horse to be trained to the highest level and you had a crack at the big time would you take it? From a humans point of view? And when I say thousands I mean upwards of £60k over the space of 7 years.

As the girls not having the choice if the horse ran or not - one of them was the owners daughter. She lead her pride and joy up as she did at every race he ran before that.
 
EKW said:
Maybe I should rephrase some of my last post:

If you had paid thousands upon thousands of pounds for your horse to be trained to the highest level and you had a crack at the big time would you take it? From a humans point of view? And when I say thousands I mean upwards of £60k over the space of 7 years.
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My answer is still no. I would do as Milton's owners did, and they had probably paid as much to get him to the top as any racehorse owner ever has.
 
mulledwhine said:
I don't really know what to say to sway this argument, however these horses are bred to race, without the gN would the whole jump season go to the dogs?

I think the only real way to make it safer is to make the jumps bigger, sounds odd but they could not just go crashing through them.

So sad that two well loved horses were lost, but it is still sad even when lesser horses go to rainbow bridge.
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Halve the number running - simples!!
 
YasandCrystal said:
Halve the number running - simples!!
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Ah but that won't really work because as proven before - 2001 - Red Marauders year - one horse took a disliking to the Chair I think it was, refused, swung sideways and thus took out another 10-12 horses in one fell swoop! All it takes is one horse to cause the domino effect.
 
cptrayes said:
I can honestly say that, like the owners of the showjumper Milton who would not let him take the risk of flying abroad to compete at the highest level (Soeul Olympics??)
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It wasn't the flying that kept Milton out of the Seoul olympics, it was the way that Caroline had been treated by the BOC (or the equestrian side of it) that kept Milton out of the Olympics for so long.
 
Baggybreeches said:
It wasn't the flying that kept Milton out of the Seoul olympics, it was the way that Caroline had been treated by the BOC (or the equestrian side of it) that kept Milton out of the Olympics for so long.
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That is not what I read in the equestrian news at the time. But it matters not. It is still the case that if I had a horse like Milton I would not risk him flying all that way and back again.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/competitionnews/390/180542.html

In Horse and Hound.
He also missed the Olympic gold he so deserved. The Bradleys did not want Milton to travel to Seoul in 1988, fearing that the journey would be too much for him and, despite much pressure — including the banishment of the horse and rider from Nations Cup teams for a season — would not budge.
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cptrayes said:
My answer is still no. I would do as Milton's owners did, and they had probably paid as much to get him to the top as any racehorse owner ever has.
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Can't remember if anyone's already mentioned him, but the reason why Desert Orchid never ran in the National was because his owners did not want to take the risk.
 
This is my horse (blue and orange silks) who IF good enough will go for a National in a couple of years time. I'm looking out the window at him now and of course I would be devestated if he didn't come home. I know the risks involved but there is a risk every time a horse runs not just in the National. He's a 5yo at the moment had a few ptp runs and has done everything he has been asked to do. He LOVES his racing, JUMPS for fun. Has a proper NH staying pedigree but he isn't that slow either, is a smashing looking horse and IF he stays sound AND can get to Aintree I am not going to deprive him of that for my OWN sentimental reasons. He is only on this earth because he was bred for ONEpurpose only. To race.

There are many if's and but's in racing but every NH owner has a dream of having a horse good enough for the Gold Cup and/or The National. Alot of hard work, money, blood sweat and tears go into every horse to get them there in one piece. Why is it OK to have a dream of having a top class horse in any other discipline but when it comes to racing, everyone has to blame somebody when things go wrong. Nobody like's to see a horse die no matter what, but yes it is a risk and everyone in the sport knows that. It doesn't mean we love our horses any less.

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He is only on this earth because he was bred for [B said:
ONE[/B]purpose only. To race. Well said. Best of luck. If racing was banned tomorrow, the breeding of most TB's in this country would cease overnight. These horses enjoy a fantastic level of care, and a merciful end if it goes wrong. How many of us wail & gnash our teeth about the horrific lives of horses working in the third world?
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Little Squirrel said:
IF[/B] he stays sound AND can get to Aintree I am not going to deprive him of that for my OWN sentimental reasons.[/IMG]
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Oh I'm sorry but get real!

"deprive him"??? what a joke.


He couldn't give a fig whether he runs in the National or not. You are doing it entirely for YOU not him.

I'll bet my bottom dollar he would enjoy drag hunting with me for four hours a lot more than he would enjoy racing for a few minutes with you or your jockey, with a hell of a sight more chance of him being alive at the end.
 
cptrayes said:
Oh I'm sorry but get real!

"deprive him"??? what a joke.


He couldn't give a fig whether he runs in the National or not. You are doing it entirely for YOU not him.

I'll bet my bottom dollar he would enjoy drag hunting with me for four hours a lot more than he would enjoy racing for a few minutes with you or your jockey, with a hell of a sight more chance of him being alive at the end.
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I have to agree with this.
 
cptrayes said:
Oh I'm sorry but get real!

"deprive him"??? what a joke.


He couldn't give a fig whether he runs in the National or not. You are doing it entirely for YOU not him.

I'll bet my bottom dollar he would enjoy drag hunting with me for four hours a lot more than he would enjoy racing for a few minutes with you or your jockey, with a hell of a sight more chance of him being alive at the end.
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I doubt he would enjoy you drag hunting him at all. You'd probably break his back teeth before a fence making sure it was low enough or safe enough before you wen't over it! Or do you go around everything just to be on the safe side? You are actually a very shallow and ignorant person wrapped up in you're own little bubble of what you think is right. I for one am sick of reading your drivel.
 
cptrayes said:
Oh I'm sorry but get real!

"deprive him"??? what a joke.


He couldn't give a fig whether he runs in the National or not. You are doing it entirely for YOU not him.

I'll bet my bottom dollar he would enjoy drag hunting with me for four hours a lot more than he would enjoy racing for a few minutes with you or your jockey, with a hell of a sight more chance of him being alive at the end.
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How could anyone guess whether a horse would enjoy four hours of drag hunting or ten minutes of racing more? Horses wouldn't bother doing anything if they all received first class care just for hanging around in the field with their mates.

CPTrayes, I remember you have posted more than once that you would pts a horse you couldn't ride, ie you would put it in a situation with a 100% chance of being killed, and not for welfare reasons either, because you think it is reasonable not to keep a field ornament when you want something to ride. This isn't a problem to you as long as the death is humane, IIRC, and ITA. Well tbh the deaths of these two racehorses will have been a damn sight quicker and more humane since there are numerous vets out on course, than deaths which happen out on drag hunts and fun rides where after an accident you would often have to wait for a vet or slaughterman to arrive. Plus, as you have been quick to point out with regards to leisure horses and lower level competition horses, when these two have gone another two will fill their stables with first class care with no expense spared, and two less horses at the bottom end of a knock on chain of events will head to the meat man.

I liked Wagtails post, its perhaps not that great an idea to attach too much sentimentality to animals about to risk their lives doing their job, but their job it is and do it they must.
 
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