Grand National: According to Pete owner will not return

[Little Squirrel]

Little Squirrel - your horse is stunning! Could I possibly steal him for showing once he has finished racing?!? Pretty please?!?!?!?! D

Thank You EKW for sticking up for me in your previous post. That silly woman has really made my blood boil!!

There is a que around the block of people who want him so you might have a fight on your hands!! I will keep you in mind though!

 

[Shantara]

This is my horse (blue and orange silks) who IF good enough will go for a National in a couple of years time. I'm looking out the window at him now and of course I would be devestated if he didn't come home. I know the risks involved but there is a risk every time a horse runs not just in the National. He's a 5yo at the moment had a few ptp runs and has done everything he has been asked to do. He LOVES his racing, JUMPS for fun. Has a proper NH staying pedigree but he isn't that slow either, is a smashing looking horse and IF he stays sound AND can get to Aintree I am not going to deprive him of that for my OWN sentimental reasons. He is only on this earth because he was bred for ONEpurpose only. To race.

There are many if's and but's in racing but every NH owner has a dream of having a horse good enough for the Gold Cup and/or The National. Alot of hard work, money, blood sweat and tears go into every horse to get them there in one piece. Why is it OK to have a dream of having a top class horse in any other discipline but when it comes to racing, everyone has to blame somebody when things go wrong. Nobody like's to see a horse die no matter what, but yes it is a risk and everyone in the sport knows that. It doesn't mean we love our horses any less.

It's quite interesting to hear from someone who's horse could be in the GN.
While I wouldn't want to race a horse of mine (not that I had one, but if I did...it's just not 'my thing') I know for a fact I risk Ned's life every time I take him hacking. With traffic, rabbit holes, logs to jump etc etc...he could lose his life hacking. That's what I've chosen to do with him and you've chosen to race your horse.
You have a really gorgeous horse there Here's to his good health, fame and fortune!

 

[Echo Bravo]

Little Squirrel and Co Thank God! for some sensible people on here, as I had this fear of the soft ones starting to take over. What some of them don't realise that nobody twist the owners arm to put their horses into the GN,the owner does it of their own free choice and the fact neither horse broke a leg jumping, According to Pete was brought down and from what I can gather the other horse broke his hindleg galloping,so should we all not allow our horses out of walk

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Thank You EKW for sticking up for me in your previous post. That silly woman has really made my blood boil!!

There is a que around the block of people who want him so you might have a fight on your hands!! I will keep you in mind though!

I may have to make the money to out bid them! Hmm! And on that note:

Never mind that, what's his name and is he worth backing?

This! 'Cos if I win the money on your horse then you kinda have to sell him to me! Not that I don't have enough ex-racers already ...

 

[Taffyhorse]

Not getting involved in the debate... RIP Synchronised and According to Pete - my thoughts are with all your connections.

CPtrayes - IIRC, the Milton 'the millionaire' DVD has Doreen Bradley on it stating the reason they wouldn't let Milton go to Seoul was because of the way the BOC treated Caroline Bradley.

 

[cptrayes]

I doubt he would enjoy you drag hunting him at all. You'd probably break his back teeth before a fence making sure it was low enough or safe enough before you wen't over it! Or do you go around everything just to be on the safe side?

mmeeeeow!

You think so, do you?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EuL6xpZs-q4/TqCNep9gtKI/AAAAAAAAAxM/K6BUGQ9p5ZA/s400/radar+hedge.jpg


ps I broke and trained that one myself. Did you?



...

 

[cptrayes]

Go and crawl back under the stone you came out from 'cos your getting tediously stupid now.

meeow meeeow meeeow, blimey this room is suddenly full of cats

 

[cptrayes]

How could anyone guess whether a horse would enjoy four hours of drag hunting or ten minutes of racing more

I've retrained, and met other, race sick horses. I've never met a hunting sick one, and the first port of call for a race sick horse is very often to send it hunting.

Horses wouldn't bother doing anything if they all received first class care just for hanging around in the field with their mates.

Do you keep horses close at hand? I currently have a turned away hunter begging to come in and be ridden, and a dressage horse who does the same.

. Well tbh the deaths of these two racehorses will have been a damn sight quicker and more humane since there are numerous vets out on course, than deaths which happen out on drag hunts and fun rides where after an accident you would often have to wait for a vet or slaughterman to arrive.

Yes, but they happen how many times more often 100? 200? 1000? I've never seen a horse die on a fun ride and I seen two horses die of heart attacks in 10 years of hunting, which they could have had at home as the one I was hacking did, age 6. The reason vets are to hand is because of the certainty of the frequency with which they will be needed.

Plus, as you have been quick to point out with regards to leisure horses and lower level competition horses, when these two have gone another two will fill their stables with first class care with no expense spared, and two less horses at the bottom end of a knock on chain of events will head to the meat man.

This argument does not apply to race horses, which would not be bred in the first place if there was not a market for them as race horses. Besides which, I am not suggesting that they should not race. Just that NH racing, as it is currently done, causes too many horse deaths for me to support it.

I liked Wagtails post, its perhaps not that great an idea to attach too much sentimentality to animals about to risk their lives doing their job, but their job it is and do it they must.

I'm sure you do. Do it they must because people like you tell them that they must. You always have, and you are completely blind to there being any wrong in it.

 

[amage]

Oooh Little Squirrel your fella is gorgeous! I can categorically say if we ever had a horse suited to the National AND good enough to get into the race then the horse would run. We love the horses we train dearly and are so proud of them but accidents happen. We lost a horse last year who basically tripped over his own legs in the yard and broke a foreleg at the fetlock and we had to put him down. It was a pure freak accident. Nobody goes out to run a horse thinking they might get hurt and killed in the exact same way nobody goes xc or into the ring thinking my horse could have an accident and die.

 

[Dab]

Little Squirrel the very best of luck with your beautiful boy and thanks for sharing that picture. He looks the picture of health and athletism. Long may you continue to have the chance to run your horse as you see fit.

 

[competitiondiva]

Sorry might be harsh, but the only sympathy I have is with the horse. The owners knew the risk, but entered him anyway.........

 

[Echo Bravo]

Please can everyone give it a rest as nobody is going to agree to disagree. I love NH and not interested in the flat racing and just as many horses break their legs doing that.So should we give in and have all racehorses and the rest destroyed, because we don't like something in eventing,showjumping(don't get me started)showing(URRGGHH) dressage(Bite tongue)pony club(no comment) Point to Point,pony racing,driving,hacking and of course from now on No Breeding and all rescue ponies /horses should be pts.

 

[cptrayes]

Nobody goes out to run a horse thinking they might get hurt and killed in the exact same way nobody goes xc or into the ring thinking my horse could have an accident and die.

perhaps that's the problem?

Every time I take a horse cross country or hunting I know that there is a risk he or I will not come home. I accept the level of risk on his and my behalf because I know that on his side that risk is tiny and on my side I go for the thrill. But on a National Hunt horse's side, that risk is not tiny. It's huge,especially in the National. If you actually thought about it first, may be you would not run.

 

[Flame_]

Oh I'm sorry but get real!

"deprive him"??? what a joke.


He couldn't give a fig whether he runs in the National or not. You are doing it entirely for YOU not him.

This applies not only to the Grand National, but to racing, hunting, riding, in hand showing and all our animal using practices. You are wrong that i cannot see any wrong in it, but I can see no more wrong in keeping and running NH horses than keeping riding horses. If you're going to have principles, you need to be a bit stricter with yourself than just taking issue with a horse race, or you are just a total hypocrite.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Sorry might be harsh, but the only sympathy I have is with the horse. The owners knew the risk, but entered him anyway.........

Yes but you also know the risks of turning your horse out in the field but I bet you still do it anyway!

At the end of hte day it's all about risk assessment. The owner & trainer obviously deemed the horse capable of jumping round those fences - which he clearly was and he looked to be having great fun! But what were the chances of being hit by a fallen horse severely enough to result in a fatal injury? Very, very slim!

 

[cptrayes]

Please can everyone give it a rest as nobody is going to agree to disagree. I love NH and not interested in the flat racing and just as many horses break their legs doing that.So should we give in and have all racehorses and the rest destroyed, because we don't like something in eventing,showjumping(don't get me started)showing(URRGGHH) dressage(Bite tongue)pony club(no comment) Point to Point,pony racing,driving,hacking and of course from now on No Breeding and all rescue ponies /horses should be pts.

Why can we not discuss a reasonable middle way instead of this extreme nonsense?

 

[cptrayes]

But what were the chances of being hit by a fallen horse severely enough to result in a fatal injury? Very, very slim!

On the strength of the last two years, the risk was 1 in 20.

Not slim at all. Massive in fact.

 

[Echo Bravo]

So CPTRAYES, what right have you then to take a horse XC or Hunting knowing that the horse could end up Injured!!

 

[cptrayes]

I can see no more wrong in keeping and running NH horses than keeping riding horses. If you're going to have principles, you need to be a bit stricter with yourself than just taking issue with a horse race, or you are just a total hypocrite.

I am not a hypocrit at all. It is about level of risk and avoidability of risk. The risk of the Grand National is 100% avoidable and there would be precious little difference to anyone's life if it disappeared.

 

[Echo Bravo]

As the horse has no choice in the matter.

 

[cptrayes]

So CPTRAYES, what right have you then to take a horse XC or Hunting knowing that the horse could end up Injured!!

The right that the risk is minimal. That I am doing it for no reason but the enjoyment of the horse and myself. That I am not supporting a betting industry that is probably also responsible for widespread human misery. That I am not using my horse as a tool for my own self-agrandisement should he win a big race. That I am not trying to win the huge prize money of a big race. That I am not putting him at risk trying to prove that my horse is better than anyone else's .....

I could go on but I'm sure you're all bored.

 

[Flame_]

This argument does not apply to race horses, which would not be bred in the first place if there was not a market for them as race horses..

Riding horses would not be bred in the first place if there weren't a market for them as riding horses. The argument applies exactly the same.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

On the strength of the last two years, the risk was 1 in 20.

Not slim at all. Massive in fact.

You still can't do maths! 1 in 40! Pete got struck by a downed horse. That's your 1.

Syncronised broke his leg with no connection to any other horse in the race.

Ornais - Broke his neck all by himself - nowt to do with another horse.

Dooneys Gate - same as Ornais - independent of any other horse.

Now I know people aren't going to like me saying this but to be honest Ornais and Dooneys got it lucky. They were gone before their bodies finished hitting the ground and thus knew not a thing of what had happened to them. If any of mine had to go that's now I would want them to go.

 

[SeasonalSituation]

I am surprised to see the GN threads still going on in all honesty. I kind of thought everyone has said everything that could be ...

I love the GN (please don't shout me down for that - it is my opinion, so doesn't make it wrong), I think it is an amazing race that really tests one of the most brilliant animals on earth. It's a hard course, there is no denying that, but trainers/owners know the risks, they know what the horse is capable of and whether it is ready. If it isn't ready it won't run.

Aside from the trainers/owners you have plenty of vets etc who look over the horse to check if it is able to run, again if they say no, they won't run. Sychronized after his initial run, was checked over and told he was ok to run. Yes in hindsight he didn't look right mentally, physically though he was able. But that call lies with the trainers.

Then you have the jockeys, they are at the top of their game (they wouldn't be there if they weren't) and they call judgements on the race. Both horses who died this year was not due to jockeys judgement, I personally believe every jockey rode the race well. You often see horses being pulled up as the jockey cites that they just did not feel well.

The saftey precautions have made the race worse. Facts don't lie there.

And whoever says that horses don't love it - they do! They are breed for this sport and they know it. My Ex-Racehorse who was 13years old when I had him still had it in his head he was a racer. He loved nothing more then racing with whatever small pony we'd be out with.

I just hope this dies away now in all honesty, the RSPCA etc and the death of the two horses should not take away from a otherwise well run race.

 

[Lolo]

Just to say posting the same photo of you and your horse landing over a hedge every time someone asks about you as a rider isn't going to make you look like an amazing rider- it makes you look like you have one photo of you and your horse landing over a massive hedge...

The horses are bred to do this. Like pigs bred for the slaughter, it is their one purpose. If they are one of the many who come home safe and sound they get a second life doing something else. They are destroyed humanely if they don't. If you browse through horsemart or dragon driving you'll find horses who need the outrage on this thread far more than any racehorse ever will. They may die on the track but they will have known human kindness- so many animals just don't.

Horses die out hunting too, just as an aside. In the past 4 years, I've known of 4 horses PTS due to injuries sustained out hunting in our area. Which is far more than I've heard of dying at the local racetrack...

Little Squirrel, your horse is lush

 

[Echo Bravo]

Are you sure that your horse does enjoy XC or Hunting??

 

[Wagtail]

Horses race for the glory of people, not for themselves. In fact, they compete in all disciplines for the pleasure of people. Horses do not understand or value competition. When we ride them we risk them, but some actiivities are far more risky than others, obviously. The biggest risk to horses in a single competition in this country is the Grand National. It is no good insisting a horse is a pet and then putting them in this race! You are fooling yourself about what exactly you value about your horse if you do. To some, horses are just bred to race for our pleasure. Therefore, the risks involved are acceptable. To many people the risks involved are so great for the GN that they are beginning to question the rights of people to even hold this race. Does there come a point where the risks to the horses are so great that it is not something that society is willing to accept? To be anti the GN does not necessarily mean you are anti all jump racing.

 

[Dab]

But what were the chances of being hit by a fallen horse severely enough to result in a fatal injury? Very, very slim!

On the strength of the last two years, the risk was 1 in 20.

.

How does that statistic work then? Was Sychronised hit by a fallen horse? If he wasnt than your maths is wrong again!

 

[competitiondiva]

Yes but you also know the risks of turning your horse out in the field but I bet you still do it anyway!

At the end of hte day it's all about risk assessment. The owner & trainer obviously deemed the horse capable of jumping round those fences - which he clearly was and he looked to be having great fun! But what were the chances of being hit by a fallen horse severely enough to result in a fatal injury? Very, very slim!

I'd actually argue that in the GN the chances are actually quite high!!! It's one thing to assess the horse as fit to run and capable, but the GN has too many horses jumping those fences in complete mayhem, accidents WILL happen!! Which is why so many fall.... I'm not saying horses shouldn't race, but a race such as the national has a death rate of what about 10% (40 horses enter and an average of what 4 die?) I wouldn't say that 10% of horses turned out or ridden on the road each day die???? (maybe it is, just not my own experience thank goodness) I agree it's all about risk assessment, and there are risks in everything we do with or without horses! I just personally think the risk in this particular race is too high???

But then if we were all the same when it came to how we think, the world wouldn't be the diverse world it is!!!

 

[Echo Bravo]

And if the answer is yes,could not alot of these NH horses actually enjoy what they do??