Grand National: According to Pete owner will not return

[SeasonalSituation]

Are you sure that your horse does enjoy XC or Hunting??

Yes. He was off as a precaution at one point, he'd run through electric fencing and he was ok, but I didn't feel like riding him. During this time we also moved yards, he didn't get ridden for a month, just gentle walks in hand for a while.

My first ride back even the yard owner said you can tell how much he enjoys having a job. Yes he's happy being in a field for a month with no work, but at the end of the day he is a tb and he is bred for having a job. He had a sparkle in his eyes and a spring in his step.

It was famously said that Seabiscuit toyed with his competitors and showed that when he won he was really upbeat. When he lost, he was dejected and down.

 

[Echo Bravo]

And Jp MacManus horse is being buried at Jackdaws Castle.

 

[Wagtail]

You still can't do maths! 1 in 40! Pete got struck by a downed horse. That's your 1.

Syncronised broke his leg with no connection to any other horse in the race.

Ornais - Broke his neck all by himself - nowt to do with another horse.

Dooneys Gate - same as Ornais - independent of any other horse.

Now I know people aren't going to like me saying this but to be honest Ornais and Dooneys got it lucky. They were gone before their bodies finished hitting the ground and thus knew not a thing of what had happened to them. If any of mine had to go that's now I would want them to go.

It's one in 20 no matter how you try to dress it up. Those horses would not have died right then if they were not running in the race.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Hi Stitch The XC or hunting was aimed at CPTRAYES,not anyone else sorry.

 

[SeasonalSituation]

Hi Stitch The XC or hunting was aimed at CPTRAYES,not anyone else sorry.

Sorry EB ... Ah well answered anyways

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I have lead up hundreds of horses at the races and yes, I do believe that they know when they have done well or not. Some that were either stone cold last or pulled up come back in quite despondant whilst others that have won or been placed come back in bouncing as they know they have done their job well.

I have to say the funniest one ever was actually a faller! The way Podge fell on his head and neck he should have been dead but nope! He got up and carried on galloping. By this point he was 2furlongs behind everyone else so Podge being Podge went into turbo mode, didn't jump another fence but went round them all. Came flat to the mats up the home straight - ears pricked, stirrups flailing, saddles flaps flying - and he won his race, he was first past the post. Now of course he didn't know that you can't win a chase by missing out half of the fences and by not having the jockey intact but he was happy! He came pell mell across the track, straight past and half way sodding well round again ... Then he came back! Skidded to a stop in front of me and started nodding his head as if to say " Did you see me! Did you see me! I went tooooo fast! I am soooooooo clever aren't I mum! Yes! Yes I am!" And with his buck teeth and muddy head I could do nothing but laugh at the poor boy! He was truly awesome! Never a dull moment - he truly was a horse that really loved his job! Podge is now happy hacking round the south downs with my gran

 

[cptrayes]

Riding horses would not be bred in the first place if there weren't a market for them as riding horses. The argument applies exactly the same.

This is not true. A the bottom end of the market they are bred because if they do not sell as a riding horse they will be bought for meat and sell at a profit. Have you never been to a local horse market? Go, and you will see what I mean.

 

[cptrayes]

Just to say posting the same photo of you and your horse landing over a hedge every time someone asks about you as a rider isn't going to make you look like an amazing rider- it makes you look like you have one photo of you and your horse landing over a massive hedge...

I've got plenty more, I just love that one, he's such a great boy. Here's another though if you are bored with it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...NI/AAAAAAAAArM/Q3xJ7rD0CZ0/s320/radarhunt.jpg

one more:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-.../AAAAAAAAArQ/prgAsvPnZfA/s320/Going+Up+WR.jpg


just this one for luck maybe?


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...AAAAAAArU/i1ToTVuMMkk/s320/Coming+Down+WR.jpg

I'm sorry to upset you but he does it all the time

 

[Flame_]

Just another little vaguely connected point, if the GN is tight because a couple of horses might die, shooting is certainly out of order then, isn't it, when thousands of birds are sure to die?

Ban that then for starters.....

Hmmm, then there's fishing.....

 

[cptrayes]

Are you sure that your horse does enjoy XC or Hunting??

Oh yes, there's no doubt at all

 

[Echo Bravo]

Stitch It's nice to know that your horse enjoys his job,bet he's awesome over fences.

 

[Amaranta]

This thread was exactly my point the other week on the Sir Roscoe thread in CR. An event horse died through injury at an event. The owner/rider apparently loved it, worked so hard with it and was aiming for Badminton? And yet she still took it out round a cross country course and thus to it's demise. I got absolutely slated on that thread for asking why there was nothing but condolances for her when racing always bares the brunt of attack.

What you people here are doing is attacking the horses owner for wanting their horse to compete to the best of his ability and yet you never question any other equestrian sports.

Hypocrites.

I feel desperately sorry for Pete's owners. His girls were standing at the collecting point desperately seeking their horse. Waiting for him to come cantering home or to be lead out from the middle of the track. Then the call came in to say there was no choice but to put him down due to sustained injuries. The girls crumpled. They couldn't move. They had to be guided away and taken out of the public eye and you can be sure that they weren't seeing a thing or noticing where they were going. Total and utter devestation. They never even got to say goodbye to him.

If any one of you had a horse that worked it's way up through the levels and had a crack at the big time could you honestly say you wouldn't let it take it's chance? In any dicipline? The Nelsons doted on that horse and yes, because in racing you know that there is a chance that your horse won't be coming home you still always think, more out of willful praying, that yours will always return home to you.

Please just cut them some slack.

I am no fan of the GN and would not miss it if it went, but this post rings very true to me.

I feel desperately sorry for According to Pete's owners, how many of us have thought 'oh it won't happen to me' - this is no different. I feel even more sorry (if at all possible) for those poor girls waiting for their horse, it quite brought a lump to my throat and I cannot even begin to know how they were feeling.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Oh dear! I got my very first telling off by The Fat Controller! How many others got their buttons pushed I wonder?!?

 

[cptrayes]

Just another little vaguely connected point, if the GN is tight because a couple of horses might die, shooting is certainly out of order then, isn't it, when thousands of birds are sure to die?

Ban that then for starters.....

Hmmm, then there's fishing.....

We agree at last

Breeding birds just so you can shoot them half dead out of the sky? What IS that about. Pulling a hook out of a fish's mouth to throw it back and be caught again? Ditto.

 

[cptrayes]

Oh dear! I got my very first telling off by The Fat Controller! How many others got their buttons pushed I wonder?!?

Well it wasn't me. I'd just like you to know that.

 

[Rouletterose]

Such a shame that a thread that started out as condolences to the connections of two fabulous horses turns into this kind of awful bitching/pointing the finger/self righteous/bigots who would not have done this or that or the other. Too late the horses are dead, in the case of the Nelsons, hindsight is a wonderful thing, for goodness sake leave the blame culture out of it.

 

[SeasonalSituation]

Stitch It's nice to know that your horse enjoys his job,bet he's awesome over fences.

Nope

He doesn't enjoy poles so we didn't do them.

Hunting though, it was a brilliant time

 

[Echo Bravo]

EKW why on earth would somebody be so nasty to do that,unless they didn't like your honest answers

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

EKW why on earth would somebody be so nasty to do that,unless they didn't like your honest answers

I find it quite amusing!

 

[Flame_]

I'm done, thanks for talking to me one and all.

 

[rhino]

Such a shame that a thread that started out as condolences to the connections of two fabulous horses turns into this kind of awful bitching/pointing the finger/self righteous/bigots who would not have done this or that or the other. Too late the horses are dead, in the case of the Nelsons, hindsight is a wonderful thing, for goodness sake leave the blame culture out of it.

But the thread was not obviously started as a condolence thread to the two 'fabulous' horses It was a link to an article from ACP's owners saying that they couldn't go through the pain of having another horse die in the National.

And surely there are lessons to be learned? Or do you believe things should just carry on the way they they are, that there is no point discussing things and no point in ever changing?

I agree that it is a shame that the thread degenerated from discussion to personal insults though.

 

[cptrayes]

EKW why on earth would somebody be so nasty to do that,unless they didn't like your honest answers

I find it quite amusing!

I stress that it was not me that pressed the button, but perhaps telling someone whose views you do not agree with to "crawl back under the stone you came from" was felt by someone else to be just a teeny weeny bit rude and not terribly condusive to furthering an adult discussion?

 

[Amaranta]

The right that the risk is minimal. That I am doing it for no reason but the enjoyment of the horse and myself. That I am not supporting a betting industry that is probably also responsible for widespread human misery. That I am not using my horse as a tool for my own self-agrandisement should he win a big race. That I am not trying to win the huge prize money of a big race. That I am not putting him at risk trying to prove that my horse is better than anyone else's .....

I could go on but I'm sure you're all bored.

Sorry but every time you compete you are using a horse for your own self-agrandisement, there is no difference.

I have known horses die (2 of them in fact) on pleasure rides, I knew another who fell off the ramp of the lorry and broke his leg. I had one horse break a leg in the field. Horses die everyday.

I am no fan of the GN but some of your arguments just don't wash.

Even your own horses don't give a monkeys whether they hunt or do dressage - YOU do.

I would like to see the GN made safer, but I am not stupid enough to think it would ever be banned, much as I dislike it personally.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I stress that it was not me that pressed the button, but perhaps telling someone whose views you do not agree with to "crawl back under the stone you came from" was felt by someone else to be just a teeny weeny bit rude and not terribly condusive to furthering an adult discussion?

I don't think it was that to be honest, it was from that post as it has been removed apparently. It may well have been saying that my horses wouldn't appreciate certain types of people on their backs.

 

[Ladydragon]

So CPTRAYES, what right have you then to take a horse XC or Hunting knowing that the horse could end up Injured!!

Perhaps a risk evaluation? I let my kids out of the house, even let them travel in a car - children die every year through day to day activities or as a result of RTAs but the risks are still teeny... I'm not about to let them undertake an activity with a 1:20 or even a 1:50 chance it'll kill them... Similarly, I'll take my horse out hacking but I wouldn't enter the GN...

I get that individual perceptions of risk might vary substantially... But we're almost (already?) at the point where we've accumulated years of knowing that at least one horse per run is probably going to die in this one spectacle of public entertainment...

Horses race for the glory of people, not for themselves. In fact, they compete in all disciplines for the pleasure of people. Horses do not understand or value competition. When we ride them we risk them, but some actiivities are far more risky than others, obviously. The biggest risk to horses in a single competition in this country is the Grand National. It is no good insisting a horse is a pet and then putting them in this race! You are fooling yourself about what exactly you value about your horse if you do. To some, horses are just bred to race for our pleasure. Therefore, the risks involved are acceptable. To many people the risks involved are so great for the GN that they are beginning to question the rights of people to even hold this race. Does there come a point where the risks to the horses are so great that it is not something that society is willing to accept? To be anti the GN does not necessarily mean you are anti all jump racing.

*Like*

 

[cptrayes]

Sorry but every time you compete you are using a horse for your own self-agrandisement, there is no difference.

I am using them for enjoyment. I reject your suggestion that I am using them for self aggrandisement.

I have known horses die (2 of them in fact) on pleasure rides, I knew another who fell off the ramp of the lorry and broke his leg. I had one horse break a leg in the field. Horses die everyday.

They don't die in the proportion that they die in National Hunt racing, and if they did the activites which cause those deaths would not be tolerated. Racing deaths are tolerated because of the huge industry it underpins.

I am no fan of the GN but some of your arguments just don't wash.

I hear your opinion. I do not agree with you.

Even your own horses don't give a monkeys whether they hunt or do dressage - YOU do.

This is not correct. My hunter has not hunted for three weeks. He is now moping at the gate. If he is the same as last year, then another couple of weeks he will be downright miserable until I start to get him fit again to hunt, and once he is hunting regularly his whole character will change to become frankly rather smug I have owned two horses who, if left in a field of jumps, will jump them for the fun of it. He is one of them.

My dressage horses come when they are called even though they know that it means that they will be required to do some dressage training. I assume that means that at the very least, they are happy to do the work.


Can we please stop talking about me now and get back to the subject or accept that the thread has run its course and go to bed?

 

[Moomin1]

I am using them for enjoyment. I reject your suggestion that I am using them for self aggrandisement.



They don't die in the proportion that they die in National Hunt racing, and if they did the activites which cause those deaths would not be tolerated. Racing deaths are tolerated because of the huge industry it underpins.



I hear your opinion. I do not agree with you.



This is not correct. My hunter has not hunted for three weeks. He is now moping at the gate. If he is the same as last year, then another couple of weeks he will be downright miserable until I start to get him fit again to hunt, and once he is hunting regularly his whole character will change to become frankly rather smug I have owned two horses who, if left in a field of jumps, will jump them for the fun of it. He is one of them.

My dressage horses come when they are called even though they know that it means that they will be required to do some dressage training. I assume that means that at the very least, they are happy to do the work.


Can we please stop talking about me now and get back to the subject or accept that the thread has run its course and go to bed?

Maybe he is moping at the gate because the grass is coming through and there is bugger all to eat in the paddocks they are in? My mare is doing exactly the same thing and it's nothing to do with not being in work. In fact if she sees her tack she buggers off to the other side of the field!

 

[Dolcé]

This thread was exactly my point the other week on the Sir Roscoe thread in CR. An event horse died through injury at an event. The owner/rider apparently loved it, worked so hard with it and was aiming for Badminton? And yet she still took it out round a cross country course and thus to it's demise. I got absolutely slated on that thread for asking why there was nothing but condolances for her when racing always bares the brunt of attack.

What you people here are doing is attacking the horses owner for wanting their horse to compete to the best of his ability and yet you never question any other equestrian sports.

Hypocrites.

I feel desperately sorry for Pete's owners. His girls were standing at the collecting point desperately seeking their horse. Waiting for him to come cantering home or to be lead out from the middle of the track. Then the call came in to say there was no choice but to put him down due to sustained injuries. The girls crumpled. They couldn't move. They had to be guided away and taken out of the public eye and you can be sure that they weren't seeing a thing or noticing where they were going. Total and utter devestation. They never even got to say goodbye to him.

If any one of you had a horse that worked it's way up through the levels and had a crack at the big time could you honestly say you wouldn't let it take it's chance? In any dicipline? The Nelsons doted on that horse and yes, because in racing you know that there is a chance that your horse won't be coming home you still always think, more out of willful praying, that yours will always return home to you.

Please just cut them some slack.

This! Were I fortunate to own a horse that could run at this level (and there was no doubt that he could) would this not be the one race I would want it to win, to prove to the world that it was the best. I think I would be tempted, not necessarily about money but something that meant the horse would never be forgotten. I have every sympathy with the family of AAP, he was brought down after running so well. I am sure they will carry the guilt of entering him for the rest of their lives so they probably don't need to have people adding to their burden.

 

[cptrayes]

Maybe he is moping at the gate because the grass is coming through and there is bugger all to eat in the paddocks they are in? My mare is doing exactly the same thing and it's nothing to do with not being in work. In fact if she sees her tack she buggers off to the other side of the field!

Why can't you just take my word for it that I know my own horse, and let the thread get back on topic? I don't want to talk about ME!

He is in 15 acres of hill meadow grazed by only three horses. It is six inches deep in grass and wild flowers. If I pass his stable with tack when the horses are in, then he is looking at me as if begging me to put it on him and not on anyone else.

Now, can we PLEASE stop talking about me and get back on topic.

 

[cptrayes]

This! Were I fortunate to own a horse that could run at this level (and there was no doubt that he could) would this not be the one race I would want it to win, to prove to the world that it was the best.

I think this is something that a lot of people will never be able to understand because they are simply not wired that way. It would not enter my head that I would want a horse to prove anything to the world, especially not if it was at significant risk of dying trying to do it.

I can understand why people would find that idea attractive, but I couldn't do it myself, and I think that's probably what divides a lot of opinion on these GN threads.