Grand National Fatalities - World Horse Welfare comment

amandat said:
Over2you ... maybe you should email a few racing yards & ask them your question about justification. It's very very sad & to say Jockeys, owners & trainers have no feelings for the horses is what i found sickening about your rather large post before, & you state it's the "TRUTH" but it is just your opinion. I'm sure everyone at the yards of any horse that has died recently must still feel the lose of such amazing animals everytime they pass the empty stable that used to have a great character in it.
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I've offered a tour of our yard and a trip to the races to O2Y as they clearly can't be far from us but I never get a response. Hey Ho! Some people like to live in their own little bubble world!
 
EKW said:
I've offered a tour of our yard and a trip to the races to O2Y as they clearly can't be far from us but I never get a response. Hey Ho! Some people like to live in their own little bubble world!
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EKW,

sooner or later it will occur to you (read back through just about every post which has been offered by O2Y), that they have no interest what so ever in learning, but every interest in promoting their own poorly argued and ill informed and biased and pointless views.

Debate with idiots is pointless. ;)

Alec.

Just as a PS, I wish that someone would offer me a tour of a racing yard. a.
 
EKW said:
I've offered a tour of our yard and a trip to the races to O2Y as they clearly can't be far from us but I never get a response. Hey Ho! Some people like to live in their own little bubble world!
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A really generous offer.
 
I'd seen that EKW :) the email suggestion woz due to the fact that most people posting on websites have the anonymity of being behind a pc screen & feel confident in their opinions that way - if i lived anywhere near you i'd offer to pretend to have the same views & take their place on the visit haha

I found the comments made insulting to certain members of my family on my dads side & the knock on to all involved in the same way as them - my grandad was a trainer & he was a truly lovely man, the owners he trained for had maximum respect for him & in turn my grandad had maximum respect for the jockeys & they all had that same respect for the horses they were involved with. My aunts etc tell me that Richard Dunwoody used to sneak down to the yard my nan & grandad were at & my nan used to let him ride at weekends - don't know how true that is but it's something i've heard loads of times !!!
 
So far, I have had statistics thrown at me, been asked questions (despite me requesting otherwise), and even received an invitation to a racing yard and a day at the races!! NONE of you have answered my questions. How can you justify the deaths of twenty-seven horses since the start of last month?? To make that number even bigger for you, FORTY-ONE horses have perished since the beginning of this year!! How can you readily support an industry that pours money into horrifically cruel animal experimentation programmes?? How can you defend making animals race when their musculature and skeletal systems haven’t fully developed?? How can you defend putting their lives in so much danger when you send them jump racing??

You lot are worse than politicians when it comes to answering a question truthfully. You prefer to pussyfoot around the question, trying to deflect attention away from it. I will not stop asking you to tell me why you think it is okay to kill as many horses in the name of "sport". Why you think it is alright to put their lives in such serious jeopardy.

I am by no means “blinkered” or “narrow-minded”. I have seen countless horses suffer all kinds of fatal injuries while racing. I know that more than FORTY horses have killed so far this year. I am more than disgusted!! How you can continue to make excuses for it is well beyond me!!
 
Over2You said:
So far, I have had statistics thrown at me, been asked questions (despite me requesting otherwise), and even received an invitation to a racing yard and a day at the races!! NONE of you have answered my questions. How can you justify the deaths of twenty-seven horses since the start of last month?? To make that number even bigger for you, FORTY-ONE horses have perished since the beginning of this year!! How can you readily support an industry that pours money into horrifically cruel animal experimentation programmes?? How can you defend making animals race when their musculature and skeletal systems haven’t fully developed?? How can you defend putting their lives in so much danger when you send them jump racing??

You lot are worse than politicians when it comes to answering a question truthfully. You prefer to pussyfoot around the question, trying to deflect attention away from it. I will not stop asking you to tell me why you think it is okay to kill as many horses in the name of "sport". Why you think it is alright to put their lives in such serious jeopardy.

I am by no means “blinkered” or “narrow-minded”. I have seen countless horses suffer all kinds of fatal injuries while racing. I know that more than FORTY horses have killed so far this year. I am more than disgusted!! How you can continue to make excuses for it is well beyond me!!
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You really are tiresome aren't you? You are the person that supposes and adds random (and irrelevant statistics to your argument, I am guessing the 27/41 figure is one that has been obtained from one of the anti-racing propaganda sites funded by Animal Aid, I have said it before and said it again Animal Aid are nothing short of emotional terrorists and we (the rational mentally stable amongst us) know that there is no point in debating or negotiating with such extremists.
 
Why can't we ask you questions....??

Why wouldn't you want to learn more? EKW's invitation.

Why won't you answer questions?
 
Over2You there has only been a handgul of 2yos race this year do far as races for them dont start until the beginning of the flat turf season which was a few weeks ago at Doncaster. They aren't allowed in the all weather before then either.
 
Alec Swan said:
EKW,

sooner or later it will occur to you (read back through just about every post which has been offered by O2Y), that they have no interest what so ever in learning, but every interest in promoting their own poorly argued and ill informed and biased and pointless views.

Debate with idiots is pointless. ;)

Alec.

Just as a PS, I wish that someone would offer me a tour of a racing yard. a.
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Once again, anybody who is anti-racing must be an idiot. Must be totally clueless. There was me thinking that racing routinely puts horses in highly dangerous situations. That more than forty horses have died since the start of the year. How stupid of me!! Racing is actually an extremely safe sport for horses. That it hardly kills any horses whatsoever!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
amymay said:
Why can't we ask you questions....??

Why wouldn't you want to learn more? EKW's invitation.

Why won't you answer questions?
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It's late, and I can't be bothered to go through every single post again. I will answer what questions I can remember. No, I have never been to a racing yard. Wouldn't want to either. I have spoken to a retired jockey, though. I let my views be known, and when I asked how he could justify the high number of horse fatalities, he spun my question into more questions. He never gave me a direct answer. The same as what you lot are doing on here.

I ask you again. Why do you continue to view your "sport" through rose tinted glasses, despite the FACT that it has killed more than forty horses in just four-and-a-half months?? Why can you see nothing wrong with a "sport" that funds VIVISECTION?? Why do you find it acceptable that your "sport" regularly plays Russian Roulette with the lives of so many horses??

Answers please!!
 
Baggybreeches said:
You really are tiresome aren't you? You are the person that supposes and adds random (and irrelevant statistics to your argument, I am guessing the 27/41 figure is one that has been obtained from one of the anti-racing propaganda sites funded by Animal Aid, I have said it before and said it again Animal Aid are nothing short of emotional terrorists and we (the rational mentally stable amongst us) know that there is no point in debating or negotiating with such extremists.
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Me, tiresome?? What about you?? I have asked several questions umpteen times, but you are NOT answering me!! You are the ones who are getting tiresome!!

As for me adding "irrelevant statistics". Are the deaths of more than forty horses irrelevant here?? We are on a thread about equine fatalities, right?? Did Animal Aid lie about those horses dying in order to get more people onto their anti-racing bandwagon?? Are all the grisly photos on the site of horses with snapped legs, and broken necks fake?? Is all the information on Animal Aid's website completely untrue?? If it were, then it would have been subject to legal action. Might be something to do with making slanderous, libelous, defamatory comments!! But, hey, there isn't a thing the racing industry can do as all the information on Animal Aid is the truth!! You just can't stand that there is an organisation out there exposing your "sport" for what it really is - cruel, barbaric, and a ritualistic horse killer!!
 
So the depth of your research is talking to a retired jockey, and snippets from the internet....

As for vivisection - do you take prescription or over the counter medication?

Do you use makeup?

Do you use washing powder?
 
As I mentioned earlier, the word 'fanatic' comes to mind. We are all entitled to our opinions, but to speak as expert, and admit that the knowledge gained on this subject is from an ex jockey is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in a very long time. Equally to admit to this fact is not the brightest.

My sister is a reporter and if she wrote an article spouting off as you have based on the information (or lack of it as in your case) she would be fired.

O2U - you fanatically stick to your I'll informed opinions, you have lost all credibility and come across as an animal rights nutter I'm afraid.
 
If it wasn't that I'm too nosy by half, OTY would have been on user ignore a long time ago but sometimes it does you good to see what drivel some can write and think they can get away with just because they shout the loudest.
 
Over2You said:
Me, tiresome?? What about you?? I have asked several questions umpteen times, but you are NOT answering me!! You are the ones who are getting tiresome!!

As for me adding "irrelevant statistics". Are the deaths of more than forty horses irrelevant here?? We are on a thread about equine fatalities, right?? Did Animal Aid lie about those horses dying in order to get more people onto their anti-racing bandwagon?? Are all the grisly photos on the site of horses with snapped legs, and broken necks fake?? Is all the information on Animal Aid's website completely untrue?? If it were, then it would have been subject to legal action. Might be something to do with making slanderous, libelous, defamatory comments!! But, hey, there isn't a thing the racing industry can do as all the information on Animal Aid is the truth!! You just can't stand that there is an organisation out there exposing your "sport" for what it really is - cruel, barbaric, and a ritualistic horse killer!!
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I have answered your questions that were directed at me. I cannot/will not answer for others as I believe FIRST HAND experience and not hearsay or supposition is the most accurate basis for reasonable argument. Animal Aid did not make up the fact that 41 horses died, but it's the way in which they skew and twist facts to suit their own propaganda filled needs that loses them credibility in the eyes of people who are genuinely upset at the fact that 3 horses died at Aintree last weekend.
Why you would want to look at grisly photos of horses with snapped legs and broken necks is beyond me, but then, in view of your particularly extremist standpoint I can only assume you obtain some kind of perverse satisfaction from the 'perceived justification' of your opinion on racing?
 
Over2You said:
Once again, anybody who is anti-racing must be an idiot. Must be totally clueless. There was me thinking that racing routinely puts horses in highly dangerous situations. That more than forty horses have died since the start of the year. How stupid of me!! Racing is actually an extremely safe sport for horses. That it hardly kills any horses whatsoever!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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At last, you're starting to see sense. It took a while, but we got there, eventually. ;)

Perhaps you'll also now agree with me that there is risk attached to any horse, at any time, and any where. There's risk whilst they're in a stable, a paddock (there are probably more paddock accidents than racing accidents, but we'll skate around that, for now). There's risk when a horse is taken onto a public highway, or travels in a lorry. There's risk when any horse is competed, in any discipline, in fact, horses from the risk factor, are a liability.

As a matter of interest, I wonder if you keep horses, and I also wonder at what level do you set a reasonable risk level. Answer that, and your arguments may have a greater credibility.

I have no wish to be offensive, but it staggers me that on this forum, others seem to take you seriously.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
At last, you're starting to see sense. It took a while, but we got there, eventually. ;)

Perhaps you'll also now agree with me that there is risk attached to any horse, at any time, and any where. There's risk whilst they're in a stable, a paddock (there are probably more paddock accidents than racing accidents, but we'll skate around that, for now). There's risk when a horse is taken onto a public highway, or travels in a lorry. There's risk when any horse is competed, in any discipline, in fact, horses from the risk factor, are a liability.

As a matter of interest, I wonder if you keep horses, and I also wonder at what level do you set a reasonable risk level. Answer that, and your arguments may have a greater credibility.

I have no wish to be offensive, but it staggers me that on this forum, others seem to take you seriously.

Alec.
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Not sure you'll get any agreement from O2Y there!

But you could consider that others might prefer to reply to such posts in order to provide some balance and reasoning on a thread....there are impressionable minds out there ;););)
 
I think its unfair that people are finding it hard to believe that some of us horse lovers dont agree with horse racing ?? It shocks me that i see horse owners are boasting on facebook about how much theyve won , and oh what a shame about that horse that died !! Discusting in my opinion but hey its the horsey world everyone has an opinion !!
 
chloe12345 said:
I think its unfair that people are finding it hard to believe that some of us horse lovers dont agree with horse racing ??
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Oh there is nothing wrong with objecting to horse racing at all. But if someone is going to spout 'fact's' based around spurious research and opinion then of course people are going to question the posters position.

It's very interesting that EKW has offered O2Y the opportunity of visiting her yard, and going to a race meet with her etc. to find out facts first hand - only to be rebutted. Sure, you may still not like the sport - but at least you'd have a better understanding of the ins and outs of it.......
 
amymay said:
Oh there is nothing wrong with objecting to horse racing at all. But if someone is going to spout 'fact's' based around spurious research and opinion then of course people are going to question the posters position.

It's very interesting that EKW has offered O2Y the opportunity of visiting her yard, and going to a race meet with her etc. to find out facts first hand - only to be rebutted. Sure, you may still not like the sport - but at least you'd have a better understanding of the ins and outs of it.......
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Haven't read more than three of the posts on here as eyes riddled with conjunctivitis :mad:, so may be very misinformed by writing this, but why is everyone getting so het up?! If OTY disagrees with racing, so what? And what would be the point in her going to a race meeting - that would be a kin to telling a vegetarian to eat a hamburger and visit a slaughterhouse before they can comment on why they are vegetarian?!

I don't know anything about animal aid and don't wish to - but I do agree that there are far too many deaths/injuries associated with the likes of the GN.
 
chloe12345 said:
I think its unfair that people are finding it hard to believe that some of us horse lovers dont agree with horse racing ?? It shocks me that i see horse owners are boasting on facebook about how much theyve won , and oh what a shame about that horse that died !! Discusting in my opinion but hey its the horsey world everyone has an opinion !!
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Like I have stated before, I often admire people whose opinions differ from mine, on the basis that they have first hand experience of what they are so supportive of/opposed to.
What I think you will find, is that nobody on the pro-racing stand on this thread has made wild ridiculous accusations, we have supported all our arguments with fact, O2Y on the other hand appears to have had a quick Google and is now a self professed expert. And we all know that saying about 'he who shouts loudest'.......................
 
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