Grand National Fatalities - World Horse Welfare comment

Moomin1 said:
And what would be the point in her going to a race meeting - that would be a kin to telling a vegetarian to eat a hamburger and visit a slaughterhouse before they can comment on why they are vegetarian?!
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I do see your point, however it is not the same as asking a veggie to eat a hamburger is it? I think the point was that O2Y is making her/his comments based on 2nd hand information. AFAIK most anti-whatever groups will often attend the source of their opposition as they deem it important that they are well informed and this helps them offer a credible argument.
 
Baggybreeches said:
I do see your point, however it is not the same as asking a veggie to eat a hamburger is it? I think the point was that O2Y is making her/his comments based on 2nd hand information. AFAIK most anti-whatever groups will often attend the source of their opposition as they deem it important that they are well informed and this helps them offer a credible argument.
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I haven't read the thread in any detail at all because my eyes are gooed up with Golden Eye Ointment! I agree that people should be more well informed if they are going to make comments in relation to 'fact'. I do think that asking OTY to attend a raceyard and meeting is a bit pointless though. I don't see how that would have any benefit at all. I would have thought reading up on correct statistics from a reliable source would be more appropriate.
 
BTW I did mean to sympathise with the gooey eyedness :(
I think the intention is provide a deeper understanding of the 'behind the scenes' things that go on in yards, I can understand it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but it would provide fresh subjects for discussion for O2Y which could then be used to argue their point more effectively.
 
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Baggybreeches said:
BTW I did mean to sympathise with the gooey eyedness :(
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Haha!! Thankyou. I am hacked off to say the least the last two weeks!! I had to take all last week off due to swollen glands and rotten cold. Went back to work on Tues this week, then had to go back off again yesterday after half a shift because of swollen glands, temperature and conjunctivitis!! Grr!! :mad:
 
Baggybreeches said:
BTW I did mean to sympathise with the gooey eyedness :(
I think the intention is provide a deeper understanding of the 'behind the scenes' things that go on in yards, I can understand it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, but it would provide fresh subjects for discussion for O2Y which could then be used to argue their point more effectively.
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Mmm yes I do agree with that side of it on reflection. I am not a fan of racing I have to admit - particularly over jumps, but I remain pretty open minded with it, and my boyfriend is a big fan of it. My ex boyfriend's parents also bred racehorses and I do know that whilst it was a business for them first and foremost, they did get upset by any injuries or fatalities and not from a financial point of view either - they were genuinely upset for the horse.
 
Over2You said:
I am STILL waiting on answers!! FORTY FIVE horses have now died since the beginning of this year!! Justify those deaths!!
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Those deaths are as easily justified as are the deaths of well in excess of the 45 horses which have died whilst being ridden in other disciplines and even on a quiet Sunday morning hack, and all since the start of this year.

People ride horses. Horses and their riders die. It happens. Get over yourself.

Alec.
 
Over2You said:
I am STILL waiting on answers!! FORTY FIVE horses have now died since the beginning of this year!! Justify those deaths!!
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You may also be interested to know that on UK roads 124 horses died between 2000 and 2003. 205 were injured and 31 riders died.

So on that evidence alone we should probably stop using horses all together. For leisure, sport or industry.

Did you see the article in the Mirror the other day about pig abuse?

Really O2Y - find a cause that has some worth.......
 
Over2You said:
I am STILL waiting on answers!! FORTY FIVE horses have now died since the beginning of this year!! Justify those deaths!!
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I don't know I don't have the answers, perhaps your friends at Animal Aid would like to provide their opinion on their 'sponsored' site Racehorse deathwatch, such a catchy title don't you think?
Until you acknowledge that you actually have no intention of being educated a little more then there is little point in trying to have a debate with you.
Debating is a skill with which one seeks to put across their opinion and make the opposing view agree as the ultimate conclusion.
Your version of debate = be as rude and inflammatory as possible will proving yourself to be a truly obnoxious turd of a human being (I feel sorry for your nearest and dearest, it must be such fun living around you).
 
amymay said:
You may also be interested to know that on UK roads 124 horses died between 2000 and 2003. 205 were injured and 31 riders died.

So on that evidence alone we should probably stop using horses all together. For leisure, sport or industry.

Did you see the article in the Mirror the other day about pig abuse?

Really O2Y - find a cause that has some worth.......
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I've kept out of this until now and I'm not anti-racing per se but nevertheless cannot condone a race that you can guarantee a number of horses will have at the very least severe falls and are trampled on by the rest of the field or at worst die. Personally I can't see any pleasure in watching it.

As to horses ding on the road - Unless you can say how many non-racing horses there are in the UK and how much of that time they spend being ridden on the road to compare proportionally to how many horses are in racing and how much time they spend being on a racecourse in a competitive race then you have not addressed the comparative risk of death on a road compared to death on a racecourse. Therefore these points are....well pointless.

A racehorse may only spend say 1 to 2 hours on a racecourse actually racing in a year whereas I ride my horse not racing 1 to 2 hours a day 6 days a week say at least 450hrs a year. So the likelihood of my horse dying while I'm riding him should be greater than that of a racehorse dying in a race if the risks were otherwise equal. Clearly this is not the case.

As to all the arguments about horses having accidents in fields and stables - well most horses spend most of their lives in one or the other - I mean where else would they likely die? On the moon?
 
As to horses ding on the road - Unless you can say how many non-racing horses there are in the UK and how much of that time they spend being ridden on the road to compare proportionally to how many horses are in racing and how much time they spend being on a racecourse in a competitive race then you have not addressed the comparative risk of death on a road compared to death on a racecourse. Therefore these points are....well pointless.
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I'm not sure the points are pointless - I thought it was quite an interesting parallel to racing. Our 'hobby' also seems to put horse and rider in mortal danger - and just shows that there are no guarantees in life - whether you choose to enter your horse in a race or ride it down the road........
 
Baggybreeches said:
I don't know I don't have the answers, perhaps your friends at Animal Aid would like to provide their opinion on their 'sponsored' site Racehorse deathwatch, such a catchy title don't you think?
Until you acknowledge that you actually have no intention of being educated a little more then there is little point in trying to have a debate with you.
Debating is a skill with which one seeks to put across their opinion and make the opposing view agree as the ultimate conclusion.
Your version of debate = be as rude and inflammatory as possible will proving yourself to be a truly obnoxious turd of a human being (I feel sorry for your nearest and dearest, it must be such fun living around you).
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From the London Marathon vs. The Grand National thread in the soapbox forum:

Baggybreeches said:
TBH I saw this on the news last night and however pro-racing I am I couldn't bring myself to draw a comparison, an animal life is not comparable to a human life.
I think any argument based on this is in pretty poor taste and I believe if 'we' stoop to that kind of depth to support our sport we just give the antis a bigger stick to beat NH racing with.
God bless the lady who died :(
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This pretty much sums up how you can justify all those equine fatalities. It doesn't matter since they were only animals. Here’s a piece of news for you - humans ARE animals!! We are no more important than other animals. Thinking otherwise is what has gotten this planet into such a horrible mess. We humans are systematically destroying the world in which we live. If we’re not obliterating millions of acres of land by building houses at a relentless pace (in order to accommodate our unsustainable population), we are wiping out thousands of species with our pollution, and destruction of habitats. Doing those things are okay, though, as we are the oh-so-superior life forms. We think nothing of using other animals in order to entertain us and put money in our pockets. Pushing them to their limits and routinely killing them in the process. All the while brushing their deaths off by saying/thinking - at least they weren't humans dying. When it comes to racing, it is no better than the likes of bull fighting, or the rodeo. Animals die at an exponential rate, and nothing is done about it. Just as long as the animals are making money. Those who oppose such blood sports are shrugged off as being uneducated and clueless with regards to the “bigger picture“. Asking them to defend their love of such “sports” is akin to asking the impossible question. They simply cannot answer truthfully without coming over as being cold and unfeeling. They would sooner answer with more questions, trying to worm their way out of it by making (often ridiculous) comparisons to other situations in which animals also die.

It is hoped that anybody reading this thread (who is on the fence about racing) will come to realize that it is a repugnant sport. Those involved in the industry, or who support it, really couldn't care less about all the fatalities (as has been proven here).

It should also be noted that I have not resorted to using vulgar insults. Surely calling another member a “turd” is grounds for being given at least a warning. If not suspension from the forums. This kind of thing would NOT be tolerated on the IMDb. Horse and Hound: take note!!
 
Over2You said:
From the London Marathon vs. The Grand National thread in the soapbox forum:



This pretty much sums up how you can justify all those equine fatalities. It doesn't matter since they were only animals. Here’s a piece of news for you - humans ARE animals!! We are no more important than other animals. Thinking otherwise is what has gotten this planet into such a horrible mess. We humans are systematically destroying the world in which we live. If we’re not obliterating millions of acres of land by building houses at a relentless pace (in order to accommodate our unsustainable population), we are wiping out thousands of species with our pollution, and destruction of habitats. Doing those things are okay, though, as we are the oh-so-superior life forms. We think nothing of using other animals in order to entertain us and put money in our pockets. Pushing them to their limits and routinely killing them in the process. All the while brushing their deaths off by saying/thinking - at least they weren't humans dying. When it comes to racing, it is no better than the likes of bull fighting, or the rodeo. Animals die at an exponential rate, and nothing is done about it. Just as long as the animals are making money. Those who oppose such blood sports are shrugged off as being uneducated and clueless with regards to the “bigger picture“. Asking them to defend their love of such “sports” is akin to asking the impossible question. They simply cannot answer truthfully without coming over as being cold and unfeeling. They would sooner answer with more questions, trying to worm their way out of it by making (often ridiculous) comparisons to other situations in which animals also die.

It is hoped that anybody reading this thread (who is on the fence about racing) will come to realize that it is a repugnant sport. Those involved in the industry, or who support it, really couldn't care less about all the fatalities (as has been proven here).

It should also be noted that I have not resorted to using vulgar insults. Surely calling another member a “turd” is grounds for being given at least a warning. If not suspension from the forums. This kind of thing would NOT be tolerated on the IMDb. Horse and Hound: take note!!
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This is why nobody takes you seriously, a human life is more important than an animal life, however some humans do not have their basic life needs met (think of Baby P) are you saying that a racehorse who lives like a king has more right to life than a poor abused child?
You are truly deluded and quite frankly it's a wonder you are safe to live independently if that is your 'balanced' view of life.
BTW in case you didn't know I lost one of my pet pointers last year and it still hurts like hell, but I justify that by knowing that he enjoyed what he was doing and the last thing he heard was me telling him he was a superstar. How is that not preferable to horses being driven to the continent for slaughter or being flung out on inadequate pasture, OR WORSE being rescued by one of the so called SANCTUARIES which often are often the most hideous places one could imagine.
I apologise for my rudeness earlier.
 
Baggybreeches said:
This is why nobody takes you seriously, a human life is more important than an animal life, however some humans do not have their basic life needs met (think of Baby P) are you saying that a racehorse who lives like a king has more right to life than a poor abused child?
You are truly deluded and quite frankly it's a wonder you are safe to live independently if that is your 'balanced' view of life.
BTW in case you didn't know I lost one of my pet pointers last year and it still hurts like hell, but I justify that by knowing that he enjoyed what he was doing and the last thing he heard was me telling him he was a superstar. How is that not preferable to horses being driven to the continent for slaughter or being flung out on inadequate pasture, OR WORSE being rescued by one of the so called SANCTUARIES which often are often the most hideous places one could imagine.
I apologise for my rudeness earlier.
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totally agree, very well said.
 
sussexbythesea said:
I've kept out of this until now and I'm not anti-racing per se but nevertheless cannot condone a race that you can guarantee a number of horses will have at the very least severe falls and are trampled on by the rest of the field or at worst die. Personally I can't see any pleasure in watching it.
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Actually there is no guarantee that a number of horses will fall, be trampled on or die. That is a chance. There is a vast vast vast difference between a chance and a guarantee.


And very well said BB.
 
I am deeply saddened by any death of any horse :( but whether people like racing or not, I would like to ask what would happen to the lovely racehorses if it all halted tomorrow? :confused: Most race horses are very well looked after and have the best treatments especially when at this level!:p I would be more worried about the everyday abuse and neglect that goes on with your average equine on a daily basis, intentional or not ..... ignorance kills more horses daily than this race! ;) x
 
EKW said:
I've offered a tour of our yard and a trip to the races to O2Y as they clearly can't be far from us but I never get a response. Hey Ho! Some people like to live in their own little bubble world!
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I'd actually love to come oneday, as racing is an area of the horse world I have had very little to do with....I have no clue to the workings of a raceyard, and would love to talk with a trainer about training, how do they know what to do, when to do it, etc etc etc...

Mind you, you might have started something now, everyone will wanna come visit!

My experience of racing has included a trip to both Market Rasen once, and Doncaster....

OH, and watching the GN and 'Champions' a million times, along with Dick Francis books. :D
 
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