Grass Sickness - We Need Advice!!

Kellys Heroes

Kellys Heroes

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Hi all,
to cut a long story short we are having shite luck as a yard at the moment. Lots of lami, 1 with Cushings (Kelly) and various other injuries.
Yesterday, a 2 y/o was PTS due to suspected grass sickness, now confirmed (R.I.P). This morning, another horse got taken to hospital with suspected grass sickness.
As expected, the whole yard is in shock and wondering what to do for the best?

My first thought would have been get them in - the 'affected' fields so far as 5 and 7, Kelly isn't out in the fields atm and our other is in field 1 - however, we've rang two vets today (our own and someone elses).
The first vet said...keep them out to build their immunity and don't swap fields. If they're gonna get it, the chances are they'll already have it.
The second vet said...keep them in for a week, then put them out again. And again, if they're gonna get it, the chances are they'll already have it.
A yard about 20 minutes away also has a confirmed case.

I can understand the weather being hot then wet has provided perfect conditions for the bacteria to grow, but everything contradicts itself and we just don't know what to do for the best. Both our girls atm seem fine, eating, drinking, pooing, no colic signs etc.

Any advice is much appreciated, we're in shock.
K x
 
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First off I'm really sorry.

I wouldn't put a horse in the field and would consider moving yards/ fields to somewhere not affected by it.

I supplement like the previous poster has suggested will be good, I've heard seaweed works well and is also cheap.

Hope the other horse is okay and nothing else becomes ill.
 
Oh no, that is terrible and must be so worrying for you! I have to admit that I would probably want to remove my horse to a different yard away from those affected. If you can't do that the following advice seems to be the most often offered by vets:

Always feed some conserved forage (hay) even when horses are turned out 24 hours a day.
Don't put horses in the at risk age group (2-7 years) out onto pasture where there has been previous cases.
Make sure your horse is healthy with regular worming or faecal egg count monitoring.

It seems that it is not catching but something to do with the pasture the horses are grazing.
 
You have my heartfelt sympathy KellysHeros. approx 10 years ago this happened to me ,I lost 3 horses and neighbours lost 2. There is very little known about grass sickness and consiquentally [sp?] no one seems to know what is best to advise.
You can only do what you , yourself feel is best,and whether or not any more horses on the yard come down with this dreadful disease is in the lap of the gods,not because you made the wrong or right choice about leaving in or out. I moved mine to a different field after our first case and 2 of those 3 horses subsequentally got EGS and were
PTS. I had one horse left. It tested positive after colicing with the eye drops,which I know are not 100% accurate. but then she started to eat and was fine. Its a strange and terrible disease and there is nothing anyone can do about it at present although the Morden Institute advises not to graze in affected fields. Our vet told me some stabled horses have been known to have secummed to EGS including some 20 ponies about 40 years ago who were allpit ponies and were down a mine. (((((((((HUGS)))))))) take care of yourself and I hope there are no more cases near to you. I have sent you a PM.
ETA Dr Chris Proudman at Leahurst advised me not to use any wormer containing IVERMECTIN as he thought there was a correlation between increased suceptability in horses wormed with products containing that drug. He advised me to use wormers of less efficacy,ie Panacure and Strongid-P. He ran some trials and published a warning inH&H some years back. I have since read the same in Keiran O'Brians vet book.
 
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Just to say I am really sorry to hear about it. I knew someone who lost a horse to this some years ago and did my own research - which bascially came out that this is still a largely unknown disease. The common factor did seem to age of the horses, if the pasture had "had" it before and the weather so do not under any circumstances turn your own horses out on the pasture that is known to be effected. I haven't checked but have you posted this in the vet section as well?
 
You poor things. Grass sickness is really rife in the NE Scotland where I live (nobody knows why). I would avoid grazing especially any horses in the 2/3 year old range as there is a spike then. Also when reseeding don't turn over the soil, just drill it as there seems to be a correlation here too. I have heard that if you can bear it (and I couldn't) then leaving the GS horses out in the paddock can cure them but you have to put up with walking skeletons for a year or more. Basically nobody really knows.

My heart goes out to you. Hope there is a good outcome.
 
I've put it in the Vet section yeah - we are just worried as we have nowhere else to move the horses.
One of ours is 17 and doesn't go out due to Cushings and just recovering from lami, and the other is 11 and she was grazing in a field 4 fields away from where the GS affected - we are erring on the side of caution and keeping in at the moment....
Kelly has seaweed but the other doesn't get on it with lol.
Just hoping, hoping, hoping that no others have contracted it and no more will go down with it.
K x
 
My gosh I really feel for you.Poor poor horses.
Where do you keep your horse if you do not mind me asking.
 
jezabell said:
My gosh I really feel for you.Poor poor horses.
Where do you keep your horse if you do not mind me asking.
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I have PM'ed you jezabell.
I know its difficult to know what to do but we don't really want to move our horses as I know Kelly at least, can get stressed and we don't want any more lami or seizures brought on through stress.
K x
 
The suggestion seems to be that GS is most prevalent in thin sandy soils, often with molehills and bare batches and poss thats because the botulism in the soil that is thought to cause it is more easily exposed on thin grazing such as sandy acidic soils. These soils are common in NE Scotland and some other coastal-ish areas. Also the weather patterns that seem to occur before many cases match up with the sort of weather we get in NE Scotland, which might also explain the heavy toll of GS here.

Our neighbour lost his Arab to GS before we moved here. They now bring in the horses every night, all year and we have done so pretty much ever since we moved up here.

Stress and age are also factors, younger horses are more at risk and ones who have recently been stressed by illness or travel.

I would not be using the implicated fields until any bare patches are grown over with grass, poo picking is (if it isnt already) done daily and horses turned out in it are provided with hay racks unless they are brought in at night. The soil should (as prev stated) be disturbed as little as poss, no heavy harrowing or anything like that.

I really feel for you, 8 weeks after we moved here the vet thought my big chap had GS, thank goodness it turned out to be choke/colic combined but hearing him say those two words just makes you feel sick.

good luck with your two PS neighbour had to keep using their fields as they are their own and only ones and they havent had any problems since then, maybe 5 or 6 years?
 
Thanks, hopefully our two won't get it its just the "what if"s that are worrying!
The yard just seems to have had so much thrown at it in the past 5 months I just wonder when it will end! Kelly has only just recovered from lami and a Cushings diagnosis so she is in her own mini field far away from the main summer fields so we thought about putting the other mare in with her for an hour a few days a week. Nobody else uses it, the grass is fairly even, no disturbance (although the ground is quite uneven) and they're only out for an hour max
K x
 
I think the opinion differs depending on who you talk to, but of the vets I know I think the general concensus is leave the horses where they are - the reasoning behind this is that if the horses have been on the pasture for any period of time they will already have ingested the suspected aetiological agent (possible a clostridial toxin) that causes GS, and moving may in fact be a trigger for it to manifest.

Your horses are both older than the common affected age range (2-7years), although the 11 year old is still young enough to be a concern, however I would leave them where they are and as other posters have said just supplement hay so that they are eating as little grass as possible.
 
Hi,
So sorry to hear about your loss, we lost two horses last october four days apart to EGS, dreadful disease and we still spend all our time watching the rest to constantly check for any signs. After we lost our first horse we spent hours researching it and have spoken in depth to Rossdales where both our horses went as we caught it early enough to have their guts tested. What doesnt seem to have been mentioned is the 10 day period from the first horse contracting it to when you are classed as not at risk as having any more contract it. So if you can make it through to next friday then you should be all clear- as much as you can be as once you have had it as you are at risk in the future. We left all our horses where they were and didint change their routine as this can be a trigger. If they have been grazing on the area chances are they either have it already and not showing or they will be fine. Dont put anything where it hasnt already been grazing, give all horses supplementary hay even if you have loads of grass. We have all ours on pink powder and Naf D tox to help their guts. Our first symptoms where loss of energy, followed by slight muscle tremor- such as you get when they have a fly irritation, bit of drooling, lots of lip licking, then the sweats and finally a colic but with no distress as by then guts had stopped working. I would strongly advise not to worm as we had wormed with equest 1 week before our horses caught EGS and know of two other horses that have also had this as a trigger. Our horses where tough cobby types- both where around 11 years old and two of our toughest horses so it doesnt always follow the rules of attacking 2 -7years with an illness or change of routine. The only thing changed was the weather and the wormer. We also have a large number of buttercups which seems to indicate that the soil has changed and is a threat, limeing the fields can help but dont disturb the soil. You caa have your soil tested and it appears that high levels of heavy metals in the soil can trigger it. Our levels were through the roof. If i can be of any help please pm me, it is a dreadful disease that just isnt understood enough and until you have had it you cant understand how horrific it is.
 
stanNhazel said:
Hi,
So sorry to hear about your loss, we lost two horses last october four days apart to EGS, dreadful disease and we still spend all our time watching the rest to constantly check for any signs. After we lost our first horse we spent hours researching it and have spoken in depth to Rossdales where both our horses went as we caught it early enough to have their guts tested. What doesnt seem to have been mentioned is the 10 day period from the first horse contracting it to when you are classed as not at risk as having any more contract it. So if you can make it through to next friday then you should be all clear- as much as you can be as once you have had it as you are at risk in the future. We left all our horses where they were and didint change their routine as this can be a trigger. If they have been grazing on the area chances are they either have it already and not showing or they will be fine. Dont put anything where it hasnt already been grazing, give all horses supplementary hay even if you have loads of grass. We have all ours on pink powder and Naf D tox to help their guts. Our first symptoms where loss of energy, followed by slight muscle tremor- such as you get when they have a fly irritation, bit of drooling, lots of lip licking, then the sweats and finally a colic but with no distress as by then guts had stopped working. I would strongly advise not to worm as we had wormed with equest 1 week before our horses caught EGS and know of two other horses that have also had this as a trigger. Our horses where tough cobby types- both where around 11 years old and two of our toughest horses so it doesnt always follow the rules of attacking 2 -7years with an illness or change of routine. The only thing changed was the weather and the wormer. We also have a large number of buttercups which seems to indicate that the soil has changed and is a threat, limeing the fields can help but dont disturb the soil. You caa have your soil tested and it appears that high levels of heavy metals in the soil can trigger it. Our levels were through the roof. If i can be of any help please pm me, it is a dreadful disease that just isnt understood enough and until you have had it you cant understand how horrific it is.
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This is the most sensible and co-hesive and informative post I have ever read about EGS. Thankyou for posting. I too,believe that worming and heavy metals play a significant role in the clostridium bacteria multiplying out of control in the gut. I think I am correct in saying that soils with quite a high iron and other heavy metal content are implicated. It seems that the copper uptake by the horse is prohibited or interfered with in some way and this allows the bacteria to flourish and cause the damage. Sorry thats not very sientific but I dont know how else to explain it. Maybe a copper supplement would help protect. ????Worth thinking about.
 
Wagtail said:
It seems that it is not catching but something to do with the pasture the horses are grazing.
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Sorry but that's not always the case. At a yard I used to work at we had a mare in for several days with an abcess and she was pts with confirmed grass sickness. Once again the vets were baffled.

I watched the autopsy, and have vowed ever since to have any horse or pony of mine pts as soon as it's diagnosed as the image of her stomach will stay with me forever.
 
I lost my boy Magners last month to sub-acute grass sickness. Such a horrible disease. I have made a group on facebook in memory of him. I want to spread awareness.

Please look at documents on the group which have lots of links to different info on different sites.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...90680500978828

I have just made an album in memory of all horses that have suffered with GS. If anyone would like a picture posted, post one on the wall with a comment and I will add it to the "In memory of..." album.

Thanks Rachel
 
I've just posted on OP's thread in Vet and what you say stanNhazel about not moving the horses does make sense.Yes very interesting post, I didn't know about the 10 period either so thanks.

I've no experience of this dreadful condition but knowledge is ammunition just in case.
 
stanNhazel, that's very interesting about you having just wormed your horses when they contracted grass sickness. I had just wormed mine with Equimax, first time I'd ever used it. He too was a tough, cobby 11-year-old, like yours.
 
I,m afraid these are all very much circumstancial theorys and are at best a guess,even the 10 day theory. The theory about the minerals . Soils that are high in Iron or containing heavy metals ,are acid soils. They will have a particular range of plants and bacteria/fungi.It is unlikely to be the soil itself ,as grass sickness didnt even exist in this country until the early 1900,s.It is more likely to be somthing that thrives in these acidic soils. I would certainly recommend raising the soil PH by liming if you have had grass sickness on a piece of land.The poo picking(sweeping) machines have also been suspected and are probably best not used during the grass sickness high risk periods.Lush grass trodden down into the soil ,or hit by frost is best avoided too.But at the end of the day,all this is just guesswork.
 
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