Grassroots at Badminton Qualification change, how may of you will be affected??

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Madhope

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So it would appear BE have changed the qualification rule ane you now CAN'T qualify if you have ridden at intermediate in the last 10 seasons!! I can understand it if they made it your couldn't have been placed, or gained points, but it means i now cannot go if i should qualify. I have already qualified for 5 regional finals and had written confirmation from BE, i feel really sad as i really want to have a go at going to the final at Badminton. SO how many of you out there will this also effect?? I am not apro and don't ride for a living and have done 2 intermediates this year on my older horse, and prior to this haven't been intermediate for 11 years!! I bred the horse i wanted to qualify and she is 7, she started eventing this year. I feel really sad about this!!
 
I think this applies to the 2012 series, where the championships are in 2013, so effectively any qualifications for regional finals after 1st July this year for RF's from July to October in 2012.

The really daft thing in this though is that these people are not restricted from competing in GR classes, neither are downgraded horses. What this effectively means is that if the top 10% in each class are ineligable riders or downgraded horses no one will qualify as qualification does not pass down.
 
I'm in the same position as you Madhope. I've competed at Intermediate this season, and I also have a horse qualified for the BE100 regionals. TBH i'm pretty gutted about the new rule change. I went to the Badminton GR this season and had a fab time (didn't come near being placed as dressage wasn't good enough). I've just got a new horse and the Badminton GR was certainly something I would have aimed him towards. Now I will have to get good enough to be competitive at the Championships at Gatcombe............. Doubt that will ever happen!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I think it's a good change as it makes it for real amateurs which IMO dont compete at intermediate!

It's the same as BSJA amateur series I think they need to be made stricter.
 
Gutted. I have a horse that can no longer race so thought I could aim him at badders at some point in the future. But a few years ago did some Ints on my the. One and only horse as an am which I still am. I have a full time job and fit the horses around that so I think it's very unfair for ams who have been lucky enough to have a horse good enough to have gone int
 
Totally agree with you millbrooksong, it has taken me 11 years to get to go intermediate again and i have only ever done 5 in a 17 year eventing span! I can see why BE have done this but rule out people getting placed or gaining points, not those like me who are mereley completing and enjoying having a go!
 
jess_asterix said:
I think it's a good change as it makes it for real amateurs which IMO dont compete at intermediate!

It's the same as BSJA amateur series I think they need to be made stricter.
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To say real amateurs don't compete at Intermediate is completly un true in my opinion. I havn't competed at Intermediate yet, and who knows may never get the chance, but I certainly plan to. Does this mean I am not an amateur then? I think I'm about as amateur as you can get!!!

However, if this is the way it's going to be, I will carry on striving to reach the dizzy heights of Intermediate and forget the Grassroots Champs with my next horse. Would rather see how far I/we can get than hold ourselves back. Just my opinion though.
 
O no! How sad! I had read the rule changes and did not even notice this - durr!! I have a fab young horse who is going very well at novice and I might aim to do an internediate next year, however I also know that I will probably sell him eventually and hope to start another youngster off - Badminton would be a goal!!

I am a single horse rider and my current horse is the only horse I have ever evented. Whilst doing very well, I am lucky to have the horse I have and I certainly wouldn't expect that every horse I have in the future will move up the levels so easily (if i ever reach the possibility of going intermediate again!).

So, although I may by the end of next year have attempted an intermediate I certainly don't feel like an experienced rider!! Just a lucky rider!! This surely cannot be fair!!

I wonder if this ruling has been properly thought out and if there is any way of overturning it.
 
Hollibobs, couldn't have put it better myself!! We are true amateurs, i will never get placed at int, and if my mare breaks down and never competes again i doubt i will ever ride at that level again, my GR horse will never be an intermediate horse, bless her!
 
It does seem like a shame to me, but then again I guess there has to be a line drawn somewhere - and there will always be people disappointed by that.

I suppose what they are endeavouring to do is to try and keep the GR for those for whom BE100/Novice is the limit of what they will ever do - rather than as a box for a more ambitious rider to tick with their young horse on the way up?

It makes sense to me, but there will always be people who miss out because of it unfortunately.
 
I think BE should bring back some sort of championship at PN level that is open to everyone as at the moment the only championship at this level is GR and I dont think that is fair on other competitors and horse owners who cannot take part in GRs.
 
Hiya, Can someone send me the link to this rule change so i can have a read? I would love to qualify my horse for the Grass roots but unfortuntely he is a downgraded horse (only had a handful of points a longggg time ago). I brought him as a 16 year old School Master and he has been showing me the ropes, he can be tricky and we are a long way off of winning but I would love to be able to have the chance to try and qualify for the grass roots!
 
luce1 said:
Hiya, Can someone send me the link to this rule change so i can have a read? I would love to qualify my horse for the Grass roots but unfortuntely he is a downgraded horse (only had a handful of points a longggg time ago). I brought him as a 16 year old School Master and he has been showing me the ropes, he can be tricky and we are a long way off of winning but I would love to be able to have the chance to try and qualify for the grass roots!
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I'm pretty certain downgraded horses have never been eligible for GR. Has this changed?
 
No, that was one of the conditions of downgrading, it allows you to compete in a normal section but you can't qualify for the GR champs. It personally think this is reasonable, otherwise where do you draw the line, fair enough you may have a horse like Luce1 above that had only a couple of points from years ago this might seem unfair, but what about the ex 4* horse in their twilight years teaching a WP the ropes, should they be able to qualify - whatever "line" you drew, someone would be unhappy so realistically not allowing downgraded horses at all is the only way forward.
 
I'm out of GR now as a result of the rule change.

I think the problem is that people seem to be using 'amateur' and grassroots' interchangeably when in fact they are very different things. Someone may fit both categories, one or the other, or neither. It is the middle level amateurs who find themselves a little uncatered for. You could argue that these people (and I include mysef here) are amateurs by the letter and spirit of the definition but that defining whether or not they are Grassroots riders is a little more tricky.

Perhaps it's time someone set up a committee to define 'grassroots'? At the moment I think you have to take the definition to include only those who are eligible to compete at Badminton (the little one ;)) and that rules out an awful lot of us who would consider ourselves part of that group.
 
Gamebird said:
I think the problem is that people seem to be using 'amateur' and grassroots' interchangeably when in fact they are very different things. Someone may fit both categories, one or the other, or neither. It is the middle level amateurs who find themselves a little uncatered for. You could argue that these people (and I include mysef here) are amateurs by the letter and spirit of the definition but that defining whether or not they are Grassroots riders is a little more tricky.

Perhaps it's time someone set up a committee to define 'grassroots'? At the moment I think you have to take the definition to include only those who are eligible to compete at Badminton (the little one ;)) and that rules out an awful lot of us who would consider ourselves part of that group.
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Exactly this. It's a Grass Roots Championship, not an Amateur Championship, and IMHO an Intermediate level rider is not Grass Roots.

Grass Roots riders are those that are at the bottom of the sport, starting out. Intermediate is basically the 5th level out of 6:

BE80
BE90
BE100
Novice
Intermediate
Advanced

Or you could even say 6th level out of 10:

BE80
BE90
BE100
Novice
CCI*
Intermediate
CCI**
Advanced
CCI***
CCI****

But it's certainly not at the bottom of our sport. As I said in the other thread, BE have to draw the line somewhere.

BUT - I also think that just having started one Intermediate is quite harsh, and making you ineligible for 10 years is a long time!! I think it would be more appropriate to say those that have gained points at Int are ineligible. BD do this, it's not the level you have competed at, but whether you have gained points at that level.
 
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Saratoga said:
BUT - I also think that just having started one Intermediate is quite harsh, and making you ineligible for 10 years is a long time!! I think it would be more appropriate to say those that have gained points at Int are ineligible. BD do this, it's not the level you have competed at, but whether you have gained points at that level.
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BD do it when taking BD eligibility into account, but not when taking BE results into account. My Int rules me out of any RFs, Area Festivals or champs at Prelim level and means I can only compete in open sections up to Elementary. Why they think that my ability (or lack thereof as it happened! :rolleyes:) to jump 1.20 fences means that I can ride a dressage test better than anyone else I'll never know. I suck at dressage! :eek:
 
I am quite sad about this rule if it is going to rule me out :( I have started 1 intermediate, where we were eliminated (about 6 years ago)
I have now got 2 lovely 5 year olds who my main aim is (was) to qualify for GR, what it means to me is that I most definitely won't bother registering with BE, just continue doing the odd event on a ticket, and aim them more at show jumping and showing, at least for the forseeable. I am not sure either would get to intermediate so there wouldn't be much else to aim for, and I like to be motivated with a target.
I am most definitely an amateur grass roots rider, just struck lucky with a fab, scopy horse to take me up the levels. I now feel 90 cm is plenty big enough :D
 
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I do think that it should definately be 'completed' rather than just competed. Just seems fairer!

To be honest, if I ever got to the dizzying heights of intermediate (which will probably never happen, because I am rubbish :p) I would hope that I was no longer described as a 'grassroots' rider - after all, it's only one level then to advanced... Maybe a compromise would be to have an open section for any level of rider? That could include those who've competed advanced, but some of them may have also been in similar situations to some who've spoken on this thread as having only done that level once, years ago, not gone clear etc.
 
Saratoga said:
Exactly this. It's a Grass Roots Championship, not an Amateur Championship, and IMHO an Intermediate level rider is not Grass Roots.

Grass Roots riders are those that are at the bottom of the sport, starting out. Intermediate is basically the 5th level out of 6:

BE80
BE90
BE100
Novice
Intermediate
Advanced

Or you could even say 6th level out of 10:

BE80
BE90
BE100
Novice
CCI*
Intermediate
CCI**
Advanced
CCI***
CCI****

But it's certainly not at the bottom of our sport. As I said in the other thread, BE have to draw the line somewhere.

BUT - I also think that just having started one Intermediate is quite harsh, and making you ineligible for 10 years is a long time!! I think it would be more appropriate to say those that have gained points at Int are ineligible. BD do this, it's not the level you have competed at, but whether you have gained points at that level.
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TOTALLY AGREE!!
 
It sounds like having an open section at the GR would keep everyone happy - i.e you can qualify for open RFs at open BE90/100s. I can't see this happening but just an idea. Gives more people a chance to ride on that hallowed turf!
 
I guess you are not going to please everyone all the time. I have to be honest, and say although my daughter has never competed at Intermediate, all being well next season, she will do her first one. She will then be 17, still at sixth form, all of it being funded by mum/sponsor (who is my company anyway), she has no intention of doing this professionally, and just does it because she loves it, and has a horse talented enough to hopefully get her there To say that she is not an amateur because of this is just not true or fair. She is an amateur with some talent, who is lucky enough to have a mum who is prepared to ferry her around the country, and just as importantly, has the funds to do it, plus she has the horse that can get there there. No matter how you dress it up or down, she is an amateur.

As with another thread on this forum, I do feel that riders such as her, or as someone else called them 'inbetweeners' should have their own thing. After all, GR riders can get to Badminton, as can 4* riders. Things such as the Novice RF and champs really are the preserve of professionals. I know she has stuff like the JRN finals etc, but they are only open to under 18s.

Its a shame that BE did this, as like some of the posters on this thread, there are many amateurs who have ridden at intermedaite at some point in their fairly recently past. It does seem a huge shame they cant compete for this. However, where do you draw the line?
 
TheoryX1 said:
I guess you are not going to please everyone all the time. I have to be honest, and say although my daughter has never competed at Intermediate, all being well next season, she will do her first one. She will then be 17, still at sixth form, all of it being funded by mum/sponsor (who is my company anyway), she has no intention of doing this professionally, and just does it because she loves it, and has a horse talented enough to hopefully get her there To say that she is not an amateur because of this is just not true or fair. She is an amateur with some talent, who is lucky enough to have a mum who is prepared to ferry her around the country, and just as importantly, has the funds to do it, plus she has the horse that can get there there. No matter how you dress it up or down, she is an amateur.
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She may be an amateur, but she's not exactly a grass roots rider is she? Grass roots to me implies competing below novice.
 
Traditionally though Novice/Intermediate (or Preliminary in North America) has sort of been the "split" level, mostly because that's the level at which riders have to bring a bit more to the party. Under that, reasonably talented horses can "make up" for a few mistakes (they may not win, but they'll likely finish in one piece). It's the same at 1.20 for sj and say, Elementary/Third Level in dressage - it's the point at which it's generally considered the average rider on the average horse will start to struggle. (I'm not trying to insult anyone and it's obviously a far more individual situation than that, I'm just saying what the view has traditionally been!)

There are obviously lots of amateur riders competing above that level (and Amateur classes offered at higher levels) but I suspect the reasoning is that if people are aiming there they are "serious" about the sport and not the "grass roots" of it. Obviously lots of people might do Grass Roots and then go on, but I can see why they would choose to make the break there for people who already HAVE gone on.

The time frame seems a bit excessive, since people's lives can change a lot in 10 years and anyone who has taken significant time out to start a career/go on in school/have a child/because of injury could be in quite a different situation at the end of it.

I don't think you can go by how much "support" someone has. In fact, a very well off amateur who only has nice horses to ride and few other commitments, or a young person with very supportive parents, even if they are not well off, could arguably be in a better situation than someone who rides for a living.

Interestingly, when there are discussions (especially in North America) of why people prefer eventing over other disciplines, the point about being able to compete against professionals and other "stars" of the sport is often touted as a selling point. But then people complain when low level competitions are filled with more experienced/well supported riders and people coming up are shut out. As said before, no matter what decision they make, someone is going to be unhappy. ;)
 
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