Greedy Stallion Owners?

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Tia

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Are the majority of stallion owners greedy?

Do they think too highly of their prizes, at the expense of their horses enjoying a fulfilled life?

Are stallions cossetted and adored so much (lol!!) that their owners are scared to have any mishap?
 
Okay I'll start.
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Are the majority of stallion owners greedy?

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No I never was, but I do get the impression that many are.

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Do they think too highly of their prizes, at the expense of their horses enjoying a fulfilled life?


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Absolutely not. My stallion enjoyed life with his herd - no way would I have changed that.

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Are stallions cossetted and adored so much (lol!!) that their owners are scared to have any mishap?

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No mine never was - any accident or mishap would have been just one of those things.
 
Quite frankly I don't give a toss if people think my stallion is too wrapped in cotton wool, anyone that has been to my place will see that they are very happy horses!
I have known 3 stallions that have 'pasture bred', the first had a fractured hock from being kicked and came to mine on 6 months box rest, the second harassed the mares to the point where I watched him cover one 5 times whilst I was stood there and then the mare got totally pee'd off he wanted more and kicked him and the third was a stallion I bought that was running with mares where I bought him from, I went to pick him up and he was covered in scabs in various stages of freshness from where he had been kicked and bitten! I have personally know 2 stallions have to be pts (one my own and one a top son of Galoubet A) from being kicked covering inhand but I have never seen an injury whilst doing AI! (Unless you count a minor amount of chaffing to my stallions willy the first time he did walk in at the AI centre, because it tested out every AV in the place to find the one he liked and would collect in
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it was the supersized one that the collector needs to be Arnie to carry!
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but then he occassionally got chaffing when he was covering in hand before he went over to AI bless his little cotton socks he has a sensitive manhood
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) I am not saying they can't and don't happen but the acknowledgement that AI is the safer than pasture breeding and covering inhand would be nice instead of it being rubbished, there are different levels of risk!
So in answer to your question Tia, are stallion owners greedy and do they think too highly of their prizes and are stallions cossetted and adored too much!
If you call wanting the best for your horse and thinking about his safety and what is necessary risk taking and what is unnecessary risk taking for him to do, if that makes me greedy, then sooooo be it I am a greedy stallion owner but I asure you in no way do any of my stallion have anything less than a fulfilled life, they are extremely happy horses as many people can testify to!
 
its soo early for this!

What do you define as greedy?

I dont think too highly of any of mine.. I know all their strengths and weaknesses, and I know that there are stallions out there that are better than ours (obviously) but they have a great life and dont want for anything. If a stallion of ours cant cope with its life, with more limited turnout on his own rather than in a herd, then they get gelded!

I think it goes without saying that any owner of any horse is worried about a mishap, and I would hope that any horse owner would, to the best of their ability, try to avoid one!

Look at people who own..say.. a rig! they would probably turn that horse out seperatley from any other horses, or at least mares...

We run our stallions together until they are 3 and then they come in to the Stallion yard, where they can talk to each other and even touch noses..

The barn is light and airy.. they get turned out most days for a few hours weather permitting, and they get worked regularly and hacked out in company.

We only have 2 horses on the whole yard that have stable vices, and these had them when they arrived, and if anything have improved. Not bad considering we have another 40+ horses on site!

As Horsegroupie has said, all my animals are fit, healthy, happy, and if you lived closer I would invite you over to see just how happy and affectionate they are!
 
I think it probably depends on whether horse breeding (and stallions) are your business, part-time business (with ANYTHING other than the breeding bringing them an income), or hobby. Owners who are in it to earn a living will, of course, be extremely protective of their animals. The need to be protective is less for part-timers, and even less for hobbyists. Of course, this will lead to the part-timers and hobbyists to say that the full-time professionals don't give their stallions a real life. But even if you try to make life "natural" for the stallion, who is to say that it is better for the animal - especially for a creature which may well have been brought up alone; the natural behaviour you talk about is due to the nurture in the first years, and then what the owner chooses to do. The animal doesn't have built-in memories when its born, and doesn't expect any particular existence. These are horses, not humans. They don't have forsight or autonoetic awareness.
 
Agree with HG, BBmat and AndyPandy, nothing I'd add except why do some fools think the only way to keep a horse happy and fulfilled is with a herd?! I just don't understand the (warped) logic.
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If an owner (of any horse) was scared of any mishap happening the horse would be stabled 24/7/365 and never allowed out and bandaged up to the eyeballs. both mat's and hg's stallions compete.....
 
No to all all three questions. Realistically I would like to think that all stallion owners respect their stallions and look after them to minimise harm and offer them happy fullfilled lives regardless of how they are used for breeding be it AI or natural service. Horses adapt to their environments are best happy with what they are accusustomed to.

The fact remains that more horses are bred in the UK by natural service be it in hand or loose than by AI and not just by hobby, leisure breeders but by professional studs of all types/breeds of horses. The Pony Native and TB industries making up the vast majority of those statistics.

AI has provided the mare owner access to invaluable bloodlines to be readily availible over a wider geographical area nonetheless within the TB industry mares will travel internationally to be served.

One of the largest sport horse studs in Ireland covers on average 800 mares per year standing at least 14 stallions at service to mare owners and all mares are covered at the farm. They can hardly be described as hobby or leisure breeders but full time professionals.
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in answer to your questions tia,

no I'm not greedy unless your definition of greedy is me not letting my fella run with a herd

does he live an unfulfilled life? He gets turnout (currently with another colt), fed watered, groomed, generally cared for and he gets to cover mares, he'll soon be backed and in work which hopefully he will enjoy. I think I can safely say that atm he is perfectly happy and fulfilled and can see no reason for that to change

Am I scared of any mishap. Yes - you got me. I'm petrified of anything happening to him because yes I do adore him. HOWEVER - I dont wrap him in cotton wool, he isn't even turned out in bandages like many competition animals are, he's au naturel in the field. I do understand accidents can happen but I want to prevent that as much as possible. He will cover mares I know (or I know have been covered naturally before) in hand but this will deopend on whether I think the mare will stand well or not and I'll minimise the risks as much as I can. Which is one of the reasons why I do prefer AI. So as far as covering goes I'll be VERY careful, with other things, he's still just a horse like any other and I fully accept that accidents do and will happen.
 
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Are the majority of stallion owners greedy?

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No I am not, we are very fair to all our clients to the fact that even this year we offered a free return to a client even though they lost their foal. Hence why clients tend to return to use our stallions again.

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Do they think too highly of their prizes, at the expense of their horses enjoying a fulfilled life?

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No - our stallions are outside in paddocks during the summer months from 5.30am to 7pm at nights. In the winter if they are at home they get outside twice a day loose into the arena to blow off steam and stretch their legs. They are treated like any horse at the Studfarm and are stabled next to mares and outside in paddocks next to mares.

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Are stallions cossetted and adored so much (lol!!) that their owners are scared to have any mishap?

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I love ALL my horses, stallions - mares - foals, I dread anything happening to any of them but I would not stick them in stables 24 hours per day 365 days in the year. I have to let them BE horses. I dont want to lose any of them. When we lost our stallion last year, Royal Geneve, he was stabled all the time and was very well looked after by the rider who realised his value as a breeding stallion. However, this did not stop him taking colic, having to be operated on and subsequently having to be PTS 12 hours later!!
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Oops! I think my post was misinterpreted - it has nothing to do with AI - that isn't what I am talking about.
 
I can't speak for others, but I don't think anyone would accuse me of being greedy - my stallion stands at a very reasonable fee, and his terms are LFG, with no deposit or booking fee, nothing at all to pay until the breeder has a live, healthy foal on the ground.
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Nor do I put my stallion's financial value above his right to a happy and fulfilled life. He lives on a mixed yard where he can chat to other horses and watch all the comings and goings, and is turned out to let off steam as much as he wishes. Once the stud season is over he will be backed and ridden, which I am sure he will enjoy, as he loves having 'something to do' and focus on, and adores attention from humans!
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The last question - well, there you've kinda got me, I'm afraid.
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Yes, he is rather pampered and cosseted, and we are all terrified of him getting injured.

So he has to go out on the safe surface of the sand-school to let off steam for at least an hour before he's allowed into a paddock; and even then he's only allowed in a small paddock where he can't get up too much speed (he's an adrenalin-junkie and lives at 100mph)! And if it's wet or slippery he's only allowed in the school. And he always has leg-protection on, just in case.

And he does AI rather than covering in hand or running with mares - again mainly to protect him from the risk of injury.

But is that so bad? He has a nice life, lots of bonking (OK he's bonking a dummy, but he clearly enjoys it LOL!) and seems perfectly happy. He loves people, and trusts them, because he has known only love and kindness from them all his life. If I were a horse, I wouldn't mind being him!
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Having said that I can't speak for other stallion owners, I do think that the majority are decent people who treat their horses - and their clients - well.
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Oops! I think my post was misinterpreted - it has nothing to do with AI - that isn't what I am talking about.

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But did your thoughts that lead to you posting this thread stem from the which is the best way to cover a mare thread and what was said in it.....
 
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lots of bonking (OK he's bonking a dummy, but he clearly enjoys it LOL!) and seems perfectly happy. He loves people, and trusts them, because he has known only love and kindness from them all his life. If I were a horse, I wouldn't mind being him!
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I thought I tell you something funny about one of my 4yo stallions, if you try and tease him to a mare he just looks at her and kinda gives you a look as if to say, yeah its a mare soooooooo and when he covered in hand it took him ages to get aroused and then when he was on if they moved he jumped off as if to say i'm not covering that it moves......and god forbid should a mare piddle at him he positively gets beside himself with discust and won't go near them.... BUT now he ia doing AI all the time, you take him to the dummy, he stands there and all you have to do is bring out his AV and he aroused and ready to go but god forbid should someone else try and collect off him other than one particular person, he's not frightened or anything like that, he just puts it away until 'his person' comes to do it....
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It isn't just valuable stallions that are cosseted. If you go to any competition yard with valuable horses you will rarely see them turned out wth others and some dressage horses never even hack out.
 
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But did your thoughts that lead to you posting this thread stem from the which is the best way to cover a mare thread and what was said in it

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No not particularly. More a case of how people keep and handle their stallions really, and what motivates them.
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I don't own an uberly expensive stallion, I don't compete or show, or use my stallion for income so I can only answer for myself as things stand now. What I do own, is a well bred, well coloured horse, who is beautifully natured and mannered, and is intended to become a riding horse for myself and my daughter in whatever sphere he shows promise in. I spent a lot of time finding the horse I wanted, therefore, to me, he is worth as much as anyone elses' stallion. My answers would perhaps be different if I had paid mega, mega bucks for a stallion that I intended to use as part of my income, or one where fitness and looks really mattered.

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Are the majority of stallion owners greedy?

hmm, am I greedy? Well, if the truth be told, the purchase price of Zeus (and he isn't just any old scrub stallion) worked out less than the cost of sending two mares to stud with stallion fees with expenses on top of that. So, financially, the stallion has paid for himself already. Otherwise, no, I won't make money on him as he isn't standing to the outside mares.



Do they think too highly of their prizes, at the expense of their horses enjoying a fulfilled life?

I think very highly of my horse (and my mares) but it suits me very well, and them, to have them living in a herd. As I see it, he sees going out with other horses as a daily routine, rather than getting excited at the prospect of a bonk. I think that one of the best things about this is seeing him grooming the 3 month old filly. He's happy, but then he has always been out with a herd and it is what he is used to.

Are stallions cossetted and adored so much (lol!!) that their owners are scared to have any mishap?

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As I don't show, and have no ambitions to, a few field bumps and bruises (which mares and geldings get too) won't make the slightest bit of difference to his life. We hear of tragedies in the field every day,any horse can slip and fall, take it into their mind to jump/go through a fence, etc, etc, regardless of how much care is taken, not just a stallion, normal day to day stuff won't make a difference to his career as a riding horse.
 
Our last one lived with us from aged 4 to 21 and he had a happy life I think.
When we lived on the Pennines he went out for a play every day in the arena and was in hard ridden work competing twice a week. he lived next to mares and gelding without any problems.
When we moved here he had a personal field with a lake in, and eventually we left him out all winter rugged as he preferred to be out. he had horses on both sides of him and he could see but not touch.
He was PTS in his own home paddock last year and rests under his favourite holly tree.
This one came from a yard where he had rarely been turned out, and he went mental the first few weeks with the freedom. It took us a lot of learning to understand he likes to go out, but he also likes the security of being inside at night too.
He doesn't like being in on his own so we tend to keep something else for company.
As for cossetting well yes I suppose we do; he has the best food and supplements on the market, gets back /teeth etc checked more frequently than the others and his every ailment no matter how small is carefully treated.
He will eventually live out with a few mares but not yet, it would stress him too much for competitions to be away from them.
I think keeping them in a herd only works if they have enough room to chase away any geldings, otherwise the day comes when they turn and attack as I know to my cost.
Like anything else it's common sense and you do what you have to. If I had a million pound stallion he would only go out alone in a six feet high fenced paddock, and probably cover with AI.. As it is ours has mares to bonk naturally, feels the sun and rain on his back and is pretty chilled...
So no, I'm not a greedy stallion owner!
 
the very word stallion means stalled one which shows that male entires were kept stabled eons ago so life isn't so different for them now. Most stallions I've come across do spend most of their time in a loosebox but with daily turnout of a couple of hours and they are sane enough. Better that than being booted by an uncooperative mare
 
to be honest, I do believe that stallions lead a lesser life that normal horses in general. So many get only half an hour in an arena or something similar to let off steam, and I do wonder that so many have so much energy from being kept in.
I don't think that they should be cosseted as much as they are, but then valuable competion mares and geldings are kept the same way and I don't think this is fair either.
So not greedy necessarily, but so scared of them injuring themselves, yes. I think if they were allowed to live lives outdoor consistantly they would be less energetic etc.
But, I've never handled stallions and htis is just imo
 
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LOL Horsegroupie - your boy sounds reallly sweet (if somewhat pervy)!
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It did pass through my mind that its 'his person' he fancies rather than the AV but he definitely doesn't fancy the real thing.....
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LOL Horsegroupie - your boy sounds reallly sweet (if somewhat pervy)!
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It did pass through my mind that its 'his person' he fancies rather than the AV but he definitely doesn't fancy the real thing.....
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I remember when my non-horsey hubby and I went up to Twemlows to visit Tobago while he was there being dummy-trained, etc., and they showed us a video (horse-porn!) of his first 'collection'.

The Twemlows staff were all exclaiming over how clever he was - " look, he just jumped straight on the dummy first time - no training needed - just figured it out all by himself - smart horse!"

Hubby gave them a sceptical, withering look and said "Well actually, if he thinks that thing is a horse, he's really rather stupid!"
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But actually my point is a relatively serious one - that stallions DO believe that their dummy is a real mare, otherwise they simply wouldn't 'perform'. So from their point of view they are just doing what comes naturally to them, acting on instinct.
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Just because WE know it's all artificial doesn't mean that horses are aware of this. Horses are not stupid, but we have to remember that their minds don't work the same way as ours. They believe that their reflection in a stable mirror is another horse, for example, and this artificial 'companion' can calm and reassure them...
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So - it doesn't really matter whether what we do with them is 'natural' or 'artificial' - horses simply don't make that distinction - providing it is kind and ideally taps into their natural instincts in some way.
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I sometimes feel that those who make the most fuss about wanting everything to be done 'naturally' show a rather limited understanding of equine psychology. There was a lot of utter nonsense on a thread recently, for example, about how mares might reject their foals if they were inseminated using AI, because without actually having sex, the birth of a foal would come as a massive shock to them!
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Sorry - but a mare does not make the connection between the arrival of her foal and an event that took place 11 months earlier! Even we humans have to have the causal connection between sex and babies explained to us, by our parents or in sex-education classes! There is simply no way that a horse could be aware of this!
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Whoops - got into a bit of a rant there - sorry!
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For those who think that stallions are stressed please come and visit Blitz. He has a wonderful life.

He is on a yard of mixed horses, with mares, geldings and foals. He has a corner box next to Hils our gelding and they chat and nuzzle through the bars - FYI Hils is the boss!

Then after his breakfast, every morning come rain or shine, he is immediately turned out, suitablely dressed for the weather conditions into a 2 acre field. Opposite the drive he has 2 mares and their foals who he says hello to when they are turned out and brought in. Behind the trees he has two little Welsh Section A's who call to him when he is turned out and so he goes over and has a chat with them. Then opposite his field he has a gelding. He also has a dog called Rosie who visits him in his field and they play IT together. He has an excellent social life.
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Depending on the weather and how happy he is out he stays out for anything up to 5 hours. He loves rain but is not a fan of the heat so he generally wanders over to the gate and lets us know when he wants to come in.

He then has a snooze and sleeps off his grass belly.

He is not worked everyday as he is still young but he is always groomed or hosed off depending on the weather. His routine is anything from going in the school for flatwork or the odd jump lesson, to being ridden round the fields to hacking out and saying hello to his pony friends around the block.

He goes to comeptitions at least once a month and also attends residential training lessons with international instructors.

Blitz is so laid back he is horizontal, he is a very happy and well balanced horse. He is a little more vocal than the rest of our horses but in a friendly way not a hysterical way. It is more of a hello than a S**g me know plea!!!

At the end of the day he is a horse so we treat him exactly the same as the mares and the geldings. It was a risk turning him out and in the early days we were not sure he would ever settle but perserverance and routine prevailed.
 
I have to say, I agree with you totally htobago.....

Once the clip broke on tulis' rope on R, because he did this funny head jerking thing when you were handling him for collections and he broke the clip and they lost him, they were just about to make a full scale panic but he headed straight into the collecting room and was on the dummy by the time they got there
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He past another horse on the way and completely ignored the teasing mare!
 
Thanks Horsegroupie! I kinda thought you would agree - you seem to have your head screwed on and your feet on the ground LOL!
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Love the story about your boy! It's funny how they get 'attached' to their dummies, isn't it? Tobago is now perfectly happy to jump on Trinny (his dummy - it's short for Trinidad) without the need for an in-season mare as a teaser.
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And all the more reason to think that they believe the dummies are 'real'...
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(Don't worry - I'm not about to go off on one again: just thought I'd get that in LOL
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