Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Has anyone got any links to any existing campaigns for this ? After my experiance and reading so many others on here it would be great to support something like this?
Green Light for Vet emergency??
- Thread starter Gingerwitch
- Start date
smellsofhorse
Well-Known Member
I would definatly support this.
Not heard of any campaigns though.
Not heard of any campaigns though.
Shay
Well-Known Member
Human doctors on call use a green light - I'm afraid much as we see our animals as family I doubt joe public would agree.
In any event - the green light does not allow them to drive as somone with a blue light would be able to. It does alert traffic and some do pull out of the way. Probably more importantly it keeps traffic wardens a bay!
I would love to see verts able to use something closer to an ambulance style blue light. But I really don't think that is going to happen. You need extensive training to drive like that which has to be refreshed every year. That would add to the already high enough vets bills. Even if we could persuade governement etc that our furred and feathered freinds are worthy of that consideration.
In any event - the green light does not allow them to drive as somone with a blue light would be able to. It does alert traffic and some do pull out of the way. Probably more importantly it keeps traffic wardens a bay!
I would love to see verts able to use something closer to an ambulance style blue light. But I really don't think that is going to happen. You need extensive training to drive like that which has to be refreshed every year. That would add to the already high enough vets bills. Even if we could persuade governement etc that our furred and feathered freinds are worthy of that consideration.
Supertrooper
Well-Known Member
I'm a vet nurse and do on call, both the vets and nurses in our practice have been in many situations where we have needed to get to an animal quickly, the most serious one being if an animal is having trouble breathing.
I'm not sure that alot of road users to get out the way of a car with green lights flashing TBH, you'd have to have vet on call on the vehicle also xx
I'm not sure that alot of road users to get out the way of a car with green lights flashing TBH, you'd have to have vet on call on the vehicle also xx
Toby_Zaphod
Well-Known Member
I can't see this ever happening & if it did happen would there have to be legislation regarding the animal they could speed to treat. Would you be happy to see a vet screaming down the road to urgently treat a hamster? 
rabatsa
Confuddled
I can't see this ever happening & if it did happen would there have to be legislation regarding the animal they could speed to treat. Would you be happy to see a vet screaming down the road to urgently treat a hamster?
But the hamster owner would put their hamster above only a horse or cow.
Stark Dismay
Well-Known Member
I would not support this.
A green light permits no exemptions from traffic laws and is there purely for awareness by other drivers. Doctors using them must be registered with the GMC and must abide by all traffic laws, speed limits, signals and lights. As many drivers are unsure of what the green light signifies they are more likely to cause confusion on the roads. Any unnecessary additional distraction on the roads only increases the chance of an accident. Imagine you were on your horse and hit by a car because the driver was busy trying to figure out what the green flashing lights he could see in his rear view mirror were!
On a practical note, they would not offer much significant reduction in response times. If your vet was 10 miles away on village roads with a 30mph limit and got stuck behind a granny doing 25mph, he would take 24 minutes to get there. If the granny pulled over as a result of seeing his green flashing light and he was able to drive the whole way at 30mph he would get there in 20 minutes. The extra distraction on the road would gain you at best 4 minutes. Taking a faster example, your vet is coming to you from 20 miles away along the motorway in rush hour, and the traffic is chugging along at 55 mph, assuming the traffic was able to let him past at 70mph because he has a light he would get to you a whole 4 and a half minutes sooner.
I cannot think of many situations where the increased risk to human life weighs up favourably against getting a vet out a few minutes sooner. The only situations I can think of are those where a person is trapped under an animal, and in those cases the fire brigade would be as likely to send their animal response team, and they are permitted to use blue flashing lights.
A green light permits no exemptions from traffic laws and is there purely for awareness by other drivers. Doctors using them must be registered with the GMC and must abide by all traffic laws, speed limits, signals and lights. As many drivers are unsure of what the green light signifies they are more likely to cause confusion on the roads. Any unnecessary additional distraction on the roads only increases the chance of an accident. Imagine you were on your horse and hit by a car because the driver was busy trying to figure out what the green flashing lights he could see in his rear view mirror were!
On a practical note, they would not offer much significant reduction in response times. If your vet was 10 miles away on village roads with a 30mph limit and got stuck behind a granny doing 25mph, he would take 24 minutes to get there. If the granny pulled over as a result of seeing his green flashing light and he was able to drive the whole way at 30mph he would get there in 20 minutes. The extra distraction on the road would gain you at best 4 minutes. Taking a faster example, your vet is coming to you from 20 miles away along the motorway in rush hour, and the traffic is chugging along at 55 mph, assuming the traffic was able to let him past at 70mph because he has a light he would get to you a whole 4 and a half minutes sooner.
I cannot think of many situations where the increased risk to human life weighs up favourably against getting a vet out a few minutes sooner. The only situations I can think of are those where a person is trapped under an animal, and in those cases the fire brigade would be as likely to send their animal response team, and they are permitted to use blue flashing lights.
*hic*
village idiot :D
Absolutely this.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
But surely if you have a horses that is dying in front of you - then 4 and a half mins would seem like a life time to you, its not like a hamster or a dog that you could be driving to meet the vet.
Nevergrewup
Well-Known Member
I heard a story over Christmas about a vet who got off a speeding fine as he was en route to an emergency...
*hic*
village idiot :D
Of course ANY time from calling vet to vet arriving seems a very very long time but flashing lights are not going to speed matters up much and will increase people's expectations when most practices are not set up to deal with multiple emergencies, if you have one more emergency than on call vets not currently dealing with an emergency then someone is going to have to wait. Four and half minutes then becomes a minor delay.
*hic*
village idiot :D
Possibly so, but had he driven into a pedestrian because he was travelling too fast to stop in time the emergency would not have been seen as any form of excuse.
JustKickOn
Well-Known Member
I heard a story over Christmas about a vet who got off a speeding fine as he was en route to an emergency...
I know a vet who has done this twice.
As much as it may be an emergency, risking the life of other road users and pedestrians is not ok. Human life preservation is far more important than the life of an animal.
I know a vet who has done this twice.
As much as it may be an emergency, risking the life of other road users and pedestrians is not ok. Human life preservation is far more important than the life of an animal.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
It's so dependant on who is reading the incident that day though.
I think I'd agree for road accidents. The last one local to us, the police asked a local to do the deed and there was not a lot left of the horse, was in agony and infront of lots of people on an a-road. Being that it was wrapped between a trailer and a car, it would have been dangerous leaving it struggling to itself and people involved in the crash. In that case absolutely a vet should have rights if the horse is pts faster (with appropriate lights etc), in this case it wouldn't have made an odds because the vet was not in a position to get out quickly.
I guess there are exceptions to everything and right now you decide whether you'd be happy getting a speeding fine/points and potentially saving an animals life. If you are not comfortable with that and think it is dangerous to do so then you drive accordingly. Without lights or sirens though it is a danger to others, there is no training or warning further to an average person driving.
I've been in a situation where we were driving at high speeds in an emergency but involved an ambulance in front of us (we weren't allowed to travel in it) and a police car behind. Even then the police advised us to do so, but were very careful on how they advised us as it still wasn't legal and they wouldn't have accepted responsibility had we been caught by camera etc. On that day there was no question that we'd have taken a life ban to keep up with that ambulance.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
I absolutely agree. As much as I adore my lot. I would rather they died than caused a humans life to be lost. I'd hate to live the rest of my life knowin that.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
If you are unfortunate enough to have a yard at some of the snag points on the UK network - you can end up sitting for 4 or 5 lots of changes - if you have 3 or 4 way lights this can add up to an horrific wait....
*hic*
village idiot :D
It's your choice where to keep your horse, just like I have chosen to move to a house and yard on the "wrong" side of a road that floods in winter. A 20 minute journey to the vet takes 45 minutes when the road is flooded, which it has been ever since we moved.
Aru
Well-Known Member
I am a vet and Im afraid I dont agree with it. Given that ambulance drivers have special training and still have to obey the traffic rules etc i..ie not break red lights etc I am not convinced that every vet has the capacity to drive an emergency response vehicle or should be given that responsibility!
It also sets up a whole new unrealistic expectation in response times to animal emergencies that most practices simply do not have the capacity for. Most practices have one vet on call for emergencies out of hours with the larger ones occasionally having a second on call for if they are swamped or cover a large area. There are going to be times within every practice when emergencies are going to have a certain length of call out time to response. That is life....unless people want to start paying extortionate prices for 24 hour emergency response centres that have people working night shifts like human hospitals vet's can only get to emergencies within a certain timeframe and must prioritise cases on need for treatment and risk to life...some animal's will have to wait in less than ideal circumstances depending on what other emergencies are in...if its between a problem foaling or a animal to be put to sleep due to injury the foaling has to come first as 2 lives are at serious risk that could be saved.
Adding a green light responce to a busy ..say mixed practice in spring..is an accident waiting to happen....vet often work day calls as well as night rotas during spring...The first call of the night using the green light would likely be safe enough but as you get more tired throughout the night as emergencies continue to come in...and every owner rightfully considers their animal to be the priority and is worried so wants you there NOW ...so the pressure increases to get their sooner with each call,each call you go to and treat increases the time the other emergencies have to wait..then the speeding to an emergency in full green light response mode becomes more and more dangerous as tiredness and stress increases and and judgement gets poorer and poorer.
Human life has to trump animal and having an emergency come in and speeding to get to it is not excuse enough to risk killing a person...
it is absolutely frustrating to sit behing someone pottering along well below the speed limit...or to slow down completely to 30 in the middle of the night when there is no-one around fo a village but when your heading to an emergency but being safe on the road has to come first....overtaking in dangerous areas etc is a choice someone has made,speeding through a village and then hitting and killing the lad walking across the road from the pub in the dark was a choice the driver made....making choices that could kill people in an oncoming car or indeed yourself cannot be justified in an animal emergency or in a human one either imo.
Plus most importantly there are very very few emergencies where a only a few minutes etc will make a hugh difference to the animal being treated ie have a life hanging in the balance....its not nice to have to wait with a critically ill animal or injured animal but in reality everyday people are placed in those positions as well depending on how far they are from an ambulance depo...and all vets will get to an emergency as soon as they can..Id rather see the ambulance service and emergency response services improved than see vets get a green light.
It also sets up a whole new unrealistic expectation in response times to animal emergencies that most practices simply do not have the capacity for. Most practices have one vet on call for emergencies out of hours with the larger ones occasionally having a second on call for if they are swamped or cover a large area. There are going to be times within every practice when emergencies are going to have a certain length of call out time to response. That is life....unless people want to start paying extortionate prices for 24 hour emergency response centres that have people working night shifts like human hospitals vet's can only get to emergencies within a certain timeframe and must prioritise cases on need for treatment and risk to life...some animal's will have to wait in less than ideal circumstances depending on what other emergencies are in...if its between a problem foaling or a animal to be put to sleep due to injury the foaling has to come first as 2 lives are at serious risk that could be saved.
Adding a green light responce to a busy ..say mixed practice in spring..is an accident waiting to happen....vet often work day calls as well as night rotas during spring...The first call of the night using the green light would likely be safe enough but as you get more tired throughout the night as emergencies continue to come in...and every owner rightfully considers their animal to be the priority and is worried so wants you there NOW ...so the pressure increases to get their sooner with each call,each call you go to and treat increases the time the other emergencies have to wait..then the speeding to an emergency in full green light response mode becomes more and more dangerous as tiredness and stress increases and and judgement gets poorer and poorer.
Human life has to trump animal and having an emergency come in and speeding to get to it is not excuse enough to risk killing a person...
it is absolutely frustrating to sit behing someone pottering along well below the speed limit...or to slow down completely to 30 in the middle of the night when there is no-one around fo a village but when your heading to an emergency but being safe on the road has to come first....overtaking in dangerous areas etc is a choice someone has made,speeding through a village and then hitting and killing the lad walking across the road from the pub in the dark was a choice the driver made....making choices that could kill people in an oncoming car or indeed yourself cannot be justified in an animal emergency or in a human one either imo.
Plus most importantly there are very very few emergencies where a only a few minutes etc will make a hugh difference to the animal being treated ie have a life hanging in the balance....its not nice to have to wait with a critically ill animal or injured animal but in reality everyday people are placed in those positions as well depending on how far they are from an ambulance depo...and all vets will get to an emergency as soon as they can..Id rather see the ambulance service and emergency response services improved than see vets get a green light.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
This concept has been in my country for years. There are various different colors for different services. Apart from police and ambulance the other flashing lights do not give the driver of the vehicle any privileges on the roads, they are used purely to ask people to pull over when safe to do so and to give them a bit of a leg-up at getting to the emergency quicker than if they were to sit in traffic. Paramedics, fire fighters, mountain rescue, Ministry personnel are some of the vehicles who are allowed to have these lights installed. There are many other flashing lights allowed for non-emergency vehicles and same as with the emergency vehicles (apart from police and ambulance) none of these vehicles have right of way or are allowed to break the laws of the road, they are only there to alert other drivers that they need to get to an emergency quickly. People here all treat them with that respect and will pull over at the first safe opportunity.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Where are you SF? Do paramedics and fire trucks not have right of way at all then?
In the UK I believe both do. I think when carrying organs there are certain exemtions as well? Certainly last time we called an ambulance, the paramedics car got to ours first from the same station and very fast.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Driver-gets-60-fine-moving-yard-red-light-let-police-van-999-pass.html There was another story similar to this a while back but moving for an ambulance. The image clearly shows him a foot over the line and nowhere near crossing traffic. Have to say this is one case where with an emergency service behind me and space (not dangerous into crossing) infront, I'd roll forwards every time regardless of penalty.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
I'm over the pond from you. It depends I think. In cities most paramedics come in an ambulance so they have right of way and are authorized to go through red lights if safe to do so, just as police and fire trucks are. We have volunteer firefighters who have these lights in their private vehicles and they aren't allowed to break the traffic laws not the fire trucks. In rural areas like where I live sometimes you see a paramedic car and although we all pull over to let them pass I've never seen them go through red lights. I'd have to check on whether they are allowed to go through red lights as now you have me thinking that it makes sense that they should be able to. I'll have a look and see what I can find.
Edited to add
I found this and it seems to say that there are codes given based on what level of emergency it is deemed as, therefore from what I can gather, code 3 means it's a life threatening emergency so they're allowed to go through red lights. Maybe that's why I've never seen them do it as although I've seen paramedic cars with lights flashing they mustn't have been going to a life threatening emergency as I've not seem them go through red lights, just made their way to the head of the traffic at the lights and been first off to go when the green light comes on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_vehicle_lighting#United_States
Edited to add
I found this and it seems to say that there are codes given based on what level of emergency it is deemed as, therefore from what I can gather, code 3 means it's a life threatening emergency so they're allowed to go through red lights. Maybe that's why I've never seen them do it as although I've seen paramedic cars with lights flashing they mustn't have been going to a life threatening emergency as I've not seem them go through red lights, just made their way to the head of the traffic at the lights and been first off to go when the green light comes on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_vehicle_lighting#United_States
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Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
I've just seen your edited post. All I can say is wow! That's unfair.
(Sorry for the confusing part in my first post, when I said fire fighters, I meant ones using lights in their private vehicles. The big fire trucks are obviously classed as emergency vehicles and are allowed to do whatever to get to the emergency in a safe manner.) I think some police officers can have these lights in their personal cars too but I'm not 100% on that. Again I've seen private cars owned by police officers and some of them have plates on their cars telling you this and they have a lights rig-up in them but I don't know whether that is just for police chiefs or what.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Ah okay. I live next door to a fire chief but has an emergency response van with lights on. Never seen in private vehicles though.
Anyone important round here just had a police escort!
I tend to figure if it's got hazards on regardless of vehicle I get out the way as that's what we were told to do when following the ambulance.
If it has any lights (bar warning orange lights) then equally ill get out the way.
Out of curiosity does anyone know what happened with the Olympic lanes as I know originally they'd said emergency services couldn't use them. Sorry to be dragging this thread so off topic!
Anyone important round here just had a police escort!
I tend to figure if it's got hazards on regardless of vehicle I get out the way as that's what we were told to do when following the ambulance.
If it has any lights (bar warning orange lights) then equally ill get out the way.
Out of curiosity does anyone know what happened with the Olympic lanes as I know originally they'd said emergency services couldn't use them. Sorry to be dragging this thread so off topic!
gemin1eye
Well-Known Member
anything which cheapens blue lights is a bad thing imo. someone en route to save a human life (including police, ambulance, firecrew, doctor, coastguards) should have lights to move traffic out of the way. the more different flashing lights thrre are the more disinclined people will be to get out of their waymore different
hitman deadly
New User
the green light law is that a doctor can use a green light. vets in the uk have the option of being a doctor of veterinary medicine or just there name, however they are not just doctors they are surgeons and they do by law have the legal right to have green lights, however they cannot break the law as to speed limits nor break the law. With that said most i would say treat you like an ambulance and there is nothing in law that would stop you stating that your an emergency animal doctor and green lights being part of your vehicle. THE KEY THING HERE IS USE AND ABUSE THEN VETS AND DOCTORS ALIKE WOULD END UP LOSING IT AND MANY PATIENTS WILL LOSE OUT.