Green on Green?

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HelenMac

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I’m looking for a first horse. To be clear, I am a novice. I plan to continue with weekly lessons.
I keep seeing adverts for young horses aged 5 or 6 that are, “sane and sensible,” “ridden by my 8 year old,” “safe as they come,” “your granny could ride her,” “old head on young shoulders,”etc. One even said a 5 year old that had “done everything.”

I am right to steer clear aren’t I? I was thinking more of a 10 year old minimum. The horse I ride at the riding school has been there since he was 5 and has apparently been steady Eddie even as a youngster. But I am not experienced enough to take a risk on a 5 or 6 year old am I? No doubt these unicorns exist but am I right to think this is too risky at my stage?

(PS “safe enough for your granny” really is needed as I’m old enough to be a granny 😁)

Thanks in advance for your advice.
 
I think it’s so hard to give advice on this because it really depends on the specific horse and the specific person. A confident novice with a balanced seat is very different to a nervous wobbly novice.

I part loan a 10 year old cob. His current owner is very experienced but his previous owners were novices. He was sold to them as suitable for novice, he probably was suitable at the point of sale but over time he picked up lots of bad habits and they just didn’t have the experience to care for him properly, he became obese and his feet were a mess, his ground manners got bad and they were scared of him.

The way a horse is kept can have a huge impact on how they behave. Riding is only like 10% of owning a horse, the rest is caring for them and honestly that’s the hardest part. Riding issues can be worked through but if your horse becomes difficult on the grounds it’s awful and makes you dread dealing with them.

If you can find a nice part loan I would really recommend that. Failing that I would ask your riding school for lessons out of the saddle, just doing horse care and going through potential problems and how to deal with them.

Good luck with it all, it’s very exciting! I’m so glad I got back into horses, I hadn’t realised how much I missed it.
 
Ditto @Herewegoagain , what on-the-ground experience do you have with horses? This is definitely more important than riding experience when you buy your own horse. Can you catch, lead, tie up, groom, tack up independently? Can you recognise signs of illness, handle bargy behaviour, treat minor wounds? If not, you will either need to keep your horse on full livery where someone experienced handles all the ground elements and you learn on-the-job, or you spend time now learning before you buy a horse.

If your riding school aren't able to give horse care/groundwork lessons, maybe volunteer at your local RDA. There you will learn all the elements of horse care as well as getting lots more hands-on experience while supporting a very worthwhile organisation and in 6-12 months be far more prepared, both in terms of general horse management and riding skills, for your own.

Re: age - 4 year olds tend to be very subservient, then they start testing boundaries at age 5-6 and provided you are patient and consistent in reinforcing good behaviour, will usually be back to their normal pleasant, reliable selves by about 8. If you want to avoid the "Kevin" years, choosing something age 10 or more that has already done all of the things you want to do and knows its job, increases your chances of enjoying your new horse.

Good luck! :)
 
Yes, OP, you are right to steer clear. The 8 yr old might be able to sit on the horse and steer with a parent in the background but certainly won't have the strength in the legs to ride a horse under all circumstances.

I am old enough to be a granny and an experienced rider/owner who doesn't want to fall off, so I might be tempted by one of the adverts you've seen but that wouldnt make the horse suitable for a novice
 
I would say you are absolutely right to stay clear, except that when I bought my first horse as an adult novice I answered an ad for a 10 year old mare that sounded ideal only to end up buying one of their other horses, a 4 year old Arab colt. I did have the sense to have him gelded before he came home.

He turned out to be perfect but I think I was very lucky. I also had lots of support from the livery yard and a good instructor.

The thing I would say is that at 4 he hadn't been long backed and would have benefitted from someone more experienced to progress his own training. As it was it didn't matter that he never achieved distinction in his schooling because he did what I wanted to do (hacking mostly) and I never intended to sell him on.

Fast forward 12 years and I bought another youngster. Completely different story - I had to get professional help with this one. If he had been my first horse I wouldn't have been able to cope.

But, you could also buy a 10 year old with issues ..

Anyway, good luck with your search. Exciting times!
 
Try to buy a sound horse. Easier said than done, but physical issues at any age throw up all sorts of behavioural and ridden problems, quite understandably. Have vettings done, but also study the various pain ethograms available and learn something about what an uncomfortable horse can look like, even when not showing overt lameness etc. When you view, watch them being tacked up, legs held up, rug put on, to gauge their reactions. See if they are happy to be touched all over (with regard to your own safety obviously).
 
It really depends on the horse, the rider, what you want to do with the horse, what management/keeping setup you have available, and what support. When we bought a horse for my OH a few years ago we went green on green, mainly because the ridden market seemed to be a complete minefield, so we just went out to buy type, temperament and soundness in the end and brought home an unbacked 3yo cob x Clyde. She's been an absolute joy and more novice friendly than I had even hoped for tbh.

However, OH had me to train her and back her. He was very insistent on wanting her to be ridden in no more than a side pull bitless, so for her education it was probably more straightforward for her anyway that she hadn't first been ridden in a bit in a previous home and then was being asked to make the transition. Plus she already had my management regime to slot into. OH was, I guess fortunate in this respect because it allowed him to go for a blank canvas that just had a really good temperament, but it would theoretically be possible to buy in the support you need instead, just as long as you can find professionals that you trust.

It also really depends on what you want to do with the horse. OH just wants to bimble around the countryside on his mare, mainly at a walk, for which she is perfect. If he had wanted to be going out to clinics and competitions then she probably would have gone sour quite quickly and it would not have been such a good match. If there are specific activities that you want to do with your horse then the best advice is still to go out and find a horse that is doing that now. That might mean you have a lot of wasted phonecalls replying to adverts, because if the seller can't show you the horse doing what you want to be doing and give good evidence that it has been doing this job happily then it really isn't worth your time viewing.

Not sure if any of that is strictly helpful, but just some things to think about. Good luck in your search 😁
 
@HelenMac you're completely right. You may hit and find a suitable young horse but the chances are much lower than if you go for something older that's genuinely got more miles on the clock and you can see who they are rather than take a punt that the willing child will grow into a nice adult.

As for "safe eough for your granny" , well I once had a horse that, on a good day, coukd be described as that and I once said so to someone. Hisreply was he'd cheerfully put his granny on him, she'd been dead many years and so it wasn't like he could do more harm!
 
Herewegoagain said:
I think it’s so hard to give advice on this because it really depends on the specific horse and the specific person. A confident novice with a balanced seat is very different to a nervous wobbly novice.

I part loan a 10 year old cob. His current owner is very experienced but his previous owners were novices. He was sold to them as suitable for novice, he probably was suitable at the point of sale but over time he picked up lots of bad habits and they just didn’t have the experience to care for him properly, he became obese and his feet were a mess, his ground manners got bad and they were scared of him.

The way a horse is kept can have a huge impact on how they behave. Riding is only like 10% of owning a horse, the rest is caring for them and honestly that’s the hardest part. Riding issues can be worked through but if your horse becomes difficult on the grounds it’s awful and makes you dread dealing with them.

If you can find a nice part loan I would really recommend that. Failing that I would ask your riding school for lessons out of the saddle, just doing horse care and going through potential problems and how to deal with them.

Good luck with it all, it’s very exciting! I’m so glad I got back into horses, I hadn’t realised how much I missed it.
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Thankyou. Yes we’ve done horse care and groundwork lessons too. I love the care bit. I ask questions all the time
 
kaiserchief said:
Ditto @Herewegoagain , what on-the-ground experience do you have with horses? This is definitely more important than riding experience when you buy your own horse. Can you catch, lead, tie up, groom, tack up independently? Can you recognise signs of illness, handle bargy behaviour, treat minor wounds? If not, you will either need to keep your horse on full livery where someone experienced handles all the ground elements and you learn on-the-job, or you spend time now learning before you buy a horse.

If your riding school aren't able to give horse care/groundwork lessons, maybe volunteer at your local RDA. There you will learn all the elements of horse care as well as getting lots more hands-on experience while supporting a very worthwhile organisation and in 6-12 months be far more prepared, both in terms of general horse management and riding skills, for your own.

Re: age - 4 year olds tend to be very subservient, then they start testing boundaries at age 5-6 and provided you are patient and consistent in reinforcing good behaviour, will usually be back to their normal pleasant, reliable selves by about 8. If you want to avoid the "Kevin" years, choosing something age 10 or more that has already done all of the things you want to do and knows its job, increases your chances of enjoying your new horse.

Good luck! :)
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Thankyou. Yes I’m doing lots of care stuff too and doing jobs in the stables as often as I can.
 
Burnttoast said:
Try to buy a sound horse. Easier said than done, but physical issues at any age throw up all sorts of behavioural and ridden problems, quite understandably. Have vettings done, but also study the various pain ethograms available and learn something about what an uncomfortable horse can look like, even when not showing overt lameness etc. When you view, watch them being tacked up, legs held up, rug put on, to gauge their reactions. See if they are happy to be touched all over (with regard to your own safety obviously).
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Great advice. Thank you
 
You are absolutely right and I only wish everyone buying their first horse was as sensible and realistic as you are being. You have much more chance of being able to enjoy your new horse with that attitude. Good luck in your search.

The problem is that many horses are well enough behaved to be ridden by a novice from time to time if between times they have more experienced riders keeping them up to scratch. The rot can set in when a novice rider tries them, they behave well and are purchased by the novice. Suddenly they are no longer being 'tuned up' between novice riders so any bad habits creeping in are not addressed quickly and a young horses behaviour can quickly deteriorated. Hence novice riders then end up with a horse they can no longer manage or enjoy. An older more established horse will hopefully retain their training and manners longer, or just be generally longer in the tooth and less inclined to add excitement to rides.
 
HelenMac said:
I’m looking for a first horse. To be clear, I am a novice. I plan to continue with weekly lessons.
I keep seeing adverts for young horses aged 5 or 6 that are, “sane and sensible,” “ridden by my 8 year old,” “safe as they come,” “your granny could ride her,” “old head on young shoulders,”etc. One even said a 5 year old that had “done everything.”

I am right to steer clear aren’t I? I was thinking more of a 10 year old minimum. The horse I ride at the riding school has been there since he was 5 and has apparently been steady Eddie even as a youngster. But I am not experienced enough to take a risk on a 5 or 6 year old am I? No doubt these unicorns exist but am I right to think this is too risky at my stage?

(PS “safe enough for your granny” really is needed as I’m old enough to be a granny 😁)

Thanks in advance for your advice.
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Try sharing a riding school horse for a few months. Less responsibility, more support from professionals. You will gain experience and practice needed for handling, stable management and more riding time.
 
I believe a green horse with a green owner is to be avoided where possible. It could damage confidence of both parties, making big issues of small things and create unhappiness all round. Gather as much experience as you can without owning and when you do buy take knowledgeable folk with you and go for an older horse who is already doing all the things you would want to do.
 
Burnttoast said:
Try to buy a sound horse. Easier said than done, but physical issues at any age throw up all sorts of behavioural and ridden problems, quite understandably. Have vettings done, but also study the various pain ethograms available and learn something about what an uncomfortable horse can look like, even when not showing overt lameness etc. When you view, watch them being tacked up, legs held up, rug put on, to gauge their reactions. See if they are happy to be touched all over (with regard to your own safety obviously).
Click to expand...

I would agree to a certain extent but it depends what you mean by "sound". An older horse with, for example, mild arthritis which is well controlled with pain killers can make a brilliant first horse, so long as you accept that their working life may be limited. I have had two older horses who loved their jobs and enjoyed looking after beginners but would not have passed a flexion test. Both had arthritis but benefited from regular steady work.
 
Getting a share first - even just for six months or so - is the best stepping stone from riding school to owning.

I would do that first, find a good private instructor to teach you on the share horse, use the horsey friends and contacts you then make to help you find your own when you are confident.
 
I've seen youngsters that are safe and sane and in some cases better on a hack that older horses because they are a quiet non reactive personality. But it's also continuing their education, they will still need schooling and input to get them to the point that they will do what you want.

The 5 year old at the riding school is probably ridden by experienced riders/staff who school them and nip any bad habits developing in the bud. There is also a big difference between successfully controlling a horse in a sheltered environment like a school and hacking out a freshly clipped horse with limited turnout on a windy day.
 
I would seek the advice of your instructor.

"Green on Green" is normally a big no-no. However when I was a (very!) novice rider in the version of my very-much-younger-self at 13 years old; I had the sweetest little pony who had apparently been ridden by a disabled rider, and he came to me. He was only 5. So it was "green on green" really.

We were absolutely fine together and had a happy partnership until the sad time came to say goodbye.

My current pony was only 4 and just-backed when I had her. I took her on, having no experience with youngsters, when I was 57, and not a confident rider at that. We've been fine together; however I think the thing that was fundamental was having the ongoing support of the person who had backed her, and who had put us together. That has been invaluable, and I don't think I could have made the decision to take this little pony on without that support.
 
I think the issue can be regardless of how genuine the horse is, they are learning too and need a confident and capable rider who can 'show then the ropes'. Young horses can be absolutely unflappable and age doesn't always mean reliable - my 15yo is the spookiest, most ridiculous and unpredictable horse you will ever sit on. But a 4/5yo will often still need to learn some basic life skills - has it learned to hack out alone and become confident doing so, learned to go out in big groups and take part in activities like fun-rides without getting over-excited, go to a show and leave the other horses to go off and do its own thing, seen fillers and different XC jumps and learned to jump them confidently etc. Those early years they look to their rider to say "hey, is this normal? what do I do?" and you need to be able to say "absolutely normal, everything is fine, let me show you what to do" - if you're not completely confident and able to ride through those moments with the right timing, that's when things can quickly spiral with a young horse.
 
Ive known lots of 5 yo cobs that would be fine with a novice rider, and some not so much! Deffo something backed you can trial on. TBH id loan first.. even for 6 months! you might find one organically for sale if you re more in the community locally, the best horses do not end up at a sales yard 90% of the time just passed within the community... and have more confidence on what you do and dont want. Same with yards! slots at the good yards take time to get, and many only take on confirmed pairs / known entities.
My first loan horse was the perfect 1st horse but would have bored me to death long term once I got my confidence (too ploddy). The problems with youngsters are far more often caused with their lack of groundwork & reactive inexperienced management than lack of riding ability tbh!

One novice owner bought a young cob, he got mud fever so she was so scared to turn out incase it happened again, then wondered why the cobs behaviour got out of hand! Anothers scared to ride then takes it on an hour long hack once a month with no conditioning then wondering why its getting sore. a third wonders why their horse rear and bolts when all they do is canter it round all the time and has never seen a saddle fitter! Another has paid THOUSANDS to get it trained / rode by others and her daughter is too unbalanced for how sharp he is. There is so much to learn outside of riding and the learning curve is steep, part loaning would be a fantastic step while you shop!

The part no one really explains even in groundwork lessons ..... horse ownership is not a riding hobby. It’s an unrelenting livestock management, fitness coaching, behavioural psychology, and crisis management… layered on top of a 500kg prey animal come rain or shine. blood sweat tears and joy! but you dont get to pick which you get each day just got to roll with the punches .

Whether than means rocking up before work and seeing your horse hopping on 3 legs and making the judgement call - farrier ,vet or frantically poulticing a hoof .. answering a phone call saying your horse has jumped out the field and scratched it side, and having to drop what you're doing to tend to it or the feeling they are just a a bit off, and knowing they just need a day off and to just try again tomorrow it takes time to develop this feel. Not to mention how physically demanding it can be... after work roaming around in mud deeper than tall wellies to catch someone else's horse because you're the only one at the yard and its got out! I wouldn't change it but its not for the faint hearted for sure.

Edited to add - Get yourself involved in a good supportive yard , build your support system & dont be put off having a horse is fantastic but it's like having a 2nd degree sometimes!
 
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Also worth bearing in mind that "your granny could ride her" can be quite an economical statement, I've seen and ridden horses that you genuinely could plop your granny on and let them trundle round a school, that then become real livewires in other situations!
 
I always wonder when eople advse loan/share whether they'd be happy to let a novice use their horse as a learning curve to make mistakes with and learn from? I know I wouldn't. Not aimed at you @HelenMac
 
Nari said:
I always wonder when eople advse loan/share whether they'd be happy to let a novice use their horse as a learning curve to make mistakes with and learn from? I know I wouldn't. Not aimed at you @HelenMac
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I have had many novice children straight out of riding schools as sharers. Most were keen to learn and went on to have their own. One or two decided it wasn’t for them - better to figure that out before you’ve bought one! I insist on a lesson per week and I supervise with chores until they know what they are doing. By the time they are useful (fully independent, coming to shows) they’re ready for their own!

Kept my ponies busy while I had small children and now prepares young ones for a new home once my children are starting to outgrow them.

A friend whose sister is an instructor does similar - she gets her sister to assess potential sharers first. Her horses are novice safe and she enjoys the company around the yard.
 
Breather said:
Try sharing a riding school horse for a few months. Less responsibility, more support from professionals. You will gain experience and practice needed for handling, stable management and more riding time.
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It’s a plan and I did this very many years ago. Not possible where I am at the moment though.
maya2008 said:
Getting a share first - even just for six months or so - is the best stepping stone from riding school to owning.

I would do that first, find a good private instructor to teach you on the share horse, use the horsey friends and contacts you then make to help you find your own when you are confident.
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Thank you.
 
starbucker said:
Ive known lots of 5 yo cobs that would be fine with a novice rider, and some not so much! Deffo something backed you can trial on. TBH id loan first.. even for 6 months! you might find one organically for sale if you re more in the community locally, the best horses do not end up at a sales yard 90% of the time just passed within the community... and have more confidence on what you do and dont want. Same with yards! slots at the good yards take time to get, and many only take on confirmed pairs / known entities.
My first loan horse was the perfect 1st horse but would have bored me to death long term once I got my confidence (too ploddy). The problems with youngsters are far more often caused with their lack of groundwork & reactive inexperienced management than lack of riding ability tbh!

One novice owner bought a young cob, he got mud fever so she was so scared to turn out incase it happened again, then wondered why the cobs behaviour got out of hand! Anothers scared to ride then takes it on an hour long hack once a month with no conditioning then wondering why its getting sore. a third wonders why their horse rear and bolts when all they do is canter it round all the time and has never seen a saddle fitter! Another has paid THOUSANDS to get it trained / rode by others and her daughter is too unbalanced for how sharp he is. There is so much to learn outside of riding and the learning curve is steep, part loaning would be a fantastic step while you shop!

The part no one really explains even in groundwork lessons ..... horse ownership is not a riding hobby. It’s an unrelenting livestock management, fitness coaching, behavioural psychology, and crisis management… layered on top of a 500kg prey animal come rain or shine. blood sweat tears and joy! but you dont get to pick which you get each day just got to roll with the punches .

Whether than means rocking up before work and seeing your horse hopping on 3 legs and making the judgement call - farrier ,vet or frantically poulticing a hoof .. answering a phone call saying your horse has jumped out the field and scratched it side, and having to drop what you're doing to tend to it or the feeling they are just a a bit off, and knowing they just need a day off and to just try again tomorrow it takes time to develop this feel. Not to mention how physically demanding it can be... after work roaming around in mud deeper than tall wellies to catch someone else's horse because you're the only one at the yard and its got out! I wouldn't change it but its not for the faint hearted for sure.

Edited to add - Get yourself involved in a good supportive yard , build your support system & dont be put off having a horse is fantastic but it's like having a 2nd degree sometimes!
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Great advice. Thank you. 🙏🏼
 
Nari said:
I always wonder when eople advse loan/share whether they'd be happy to let a novice use their horse as a learning curve to make mistakes with and learn from? I know I wouldn't. Not aimed at you @HelenMac
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I think this all the time! Who the heck would let me near their precious horse? I’ve not therefore put myself out there and looked for a loan for exactly this reason.
 
maya2008 said:
I have had many novice children straight out of riding schools as sharers. Most were keen to learn and went on to have their own. One or two decided it wasn’t for them - better to figure that out before you’ve bought one! I insist on a lesson per week and I supervise with chores until they know what they are doing. By the time they are useful (fully independent, coming to shows) they’re ready for their own!

Kept my ponies busy while I had small children and now prepares young ones for a new home once my children are starting to outgrow them.

A friend whose sister is an instructor does similar - she gets her sister to assess potential sharers first. Her horses are novice safe and she enjoys the company around the yard.
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How on earth do I find these people????
 
Nari said:
I always wonder when eople advse loan/share whether they'd be happy to let a novice use their horse as a learning curve to make mistakes with and learn from? I know I wouldn't. Not aimed at you @HelenMac
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It would never occur to me to advise that! I think its bad advice tbh. As you say who is going to want a novice dealing with their precious horse on their own. And a new owner needs to be able to find their own way with their new horse.
The best thing is to find a sensible, confidence giver that knows its job as your first horse, work out a routine that suits you both and let the horse look after you.
Our first horse was a R&D cob, who was retiring from a commercial driving job, with a bit of p/t RS work in winter. That worked out very well, he was kept on a local farm, where he was companion to the farmer's daughter's pony, on a DIY arrangement and we learned as we went along, having spent 7 yrs at RS before buying him.
 
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