Greyhound attack... Am I being unreasonable?

[Queenbee]

Today has not been a good one. I woke to blood curdling screams outside my window, as I was coming to I heard the words "has he hurt the cat" and I blindly threw on some clothes and ran out the door to find two women with two greyhounds standing by my car, my cat having been attacked was hiding underneath it. My cat is thankfully and amazingly ok, she is traumatised, very sore, and utterly exhausted post shock but as the dog had her in a proper grip around her abdomen and shook her she could be dead very easily. Basically she was chilling in her jungle... The neighbours front lawn and one of the dogs attacked her, she must have given him hell (she has shredded claws) some how she made it to the other side of the road and got under my car. But even the owners who were hysterical said he full on mauled and shook her.

Now people who know me will know I'm not biased towards the breed, far from it, I've owned a Lurcher and have my elderly whippet. I am however seriously fuming! The story goes that this dog is an ex racer, the greyhound rescue centre re homed him to one home who then having lost their house sent him back. Two weeks later he was with these new women. He is a fit male greyhound, they re homed him with an approximately 75 year old woman who is very slight, now I walk my dogs along a little track, when I get near it even my whippet who is old, arthritic stiff and sore is a strong burger to handle. They were told he was calm and there were no issues.

I am obviously furious with the two women, an ex racer who is a new addition should be wearing a muzzle in my opinion. The younger woman (the daughter) was gabbling on about how she told her mum not to get him, how he was Irish and that was bad because they train them with live animals... And they also said that he had had his muzzle on earlier in the morning, followed up by the daughter shouting at her mother that she told her he should have had a muzzle on. I got really ticked off, explaining that his attacking my cat was nothing to do with him being Irish, it had everything to do with him being a sight hound, and that he should not have been out without a muzzle, especially when they knew so little about his character and temperament, furthermore, why muzzle him for one walk and not the other. It's quite frankly insane!

I'm really bleeding angry though at the rehoming kennels, what on earth were they thinking rehoming such a strong dog with such a frail old lady, plus if they had assessed him properly they would know he is not safe without a muzzle, that he chases cats! He just pulled straight out of this woman's hand, he has no recall because he's a track dog and acting on instinct and the only training he knows... Arrrrgh, I just am furious, they should not have put that dog with that woman, the dog chased my cat in a bound frenzy across the road, both animals could be dead having been hit by a car.

I'm calmer than I was earlier, but I still feel strongly about the above. Am I wrong?

 

[hayley.t]

Poor you and poor cat how lucky (although not the right word, I know) that you woke up and got down there whilst they were still there.
I don't think you are wrong to feel like that and I imagine that you were feeling pretty shook up too.
Hopefully it will have made them realise what they have taken on and they will be a lot more careful in the future.
I wouldn't necessarily blame the rescue, it doesn't sound the perfect match but you don't know what has been said by either side and what they recommended. Also, rightly or wrongly, I don't know if some are so full that they wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth so to speak.
I know that this will be of little comfort to you but when I started reading I thought it was going to be about these despicable human beings who deliberately set there dogs on cats, there has just been a case near me where someone had been caught doing this, at least this was an accident. Although like I said I realise for you and your cat it makes little odds. Hope that she is feeling better this morning x

 

[Alec Swan]

If I owned and raced a greyhound, when its racing days are over and if I wasn't going to retain the dog myself, then it would be put to sleep. Greyhounds through their breeding and training focus on one thing, killing, and expecting a dog to be desensitised to the main focus in its life, is being unrealistic. ALL greyhounds should be muzzled when in a public place.

We have two families in our village, and between them they have three retired greyhounds. The three are all neutered and obese, and they are never let off the lead, spending their lives either indoors or being led about. I don't call that much of a life, but they're their dogs so it's their choice. I often wonder why these people 'Save the dog's life', for what? A life of never having the ability to gallop, again? I have misgivings about all rescue centres, and specifically those who re-home greyhounds.

No Q-b, you're not being unreasonable. The dog is the responsibility of the owner, and to give any greyhound its freedom where there are likely to be cats around human domiciles is asking for trouble. Irish or not makes not a jot of difference.

I hope that today your poor little cat is ok. I'm surprised that without timely intervention, that she wasn't killed.

Alec.

 

[Fides]

By the sound of it the women will think twice about walking the dog without a muzzle now. It sounds like the dog is just way too strong for the lady I foster for a sight hound rescue and although they insist fosters are to be muzzled in public, once the dog is rehomed, there's nothing they can do if the owner chooses not to

The lady does need to be careful though as she could be reported under new legislation if the dog gets loose and someone feels 'threatened' by this

 

[spike123]

I'm glad your cat is okay. This is the second time today I've read about a greyhound attacking a cat.(other story is on our local papers website) Unfortunately the cat concerned there wasn't so lucky and was killed. All dogs have that potential although I guess where greyhounds race by chasing a fake rabbit the instinct to chase cats must be extremely strong. I agree that maybe they should be muzzled. I know a few people who keep them as pets. One lady is fantastic and keeps her muzzled out in public but they are allowed to run and be dogs. Another owner though is clueless and has no control over hers whatsoever. Greyhounds seem to have built a reputation as being gentle easy dogs. The chase instinct seems to be forgotten about when people look at them as potential pets to live amongst cats and other small animals.

 

[lurcherlu]

QB in the West Briton (our local paper ) this week greyhound needs a sofa and garden no walks as finds life too stressful, I actually feel like adopting it and having it pts.... A running dog never allowed to run again ?? I have had lurchers for 7 years now so no means an expert , we adopted our big lad as a 2-3 year old , he must never be let off his lead they said , so I feel this is cruel , took him to an enclosed field let him go (muzzled in case we encountered small animals ) and we've never ever looked back , he successfully worked on the lamp for 4 years , ferreted and raced , my teen tiny 4 year old (QB will vouch for me she's a dot ) can walk him on the lead and he wouldn't think once about taking off . Now my issue with greyhounds is the adopters and rescue centres .... They advertise them as not needing much exercise :/ my friend had an off track grey they retired her at 7 she was a world beater , we used to take her on some permission I had and let her run with my lurcher , he would out turn her but my god she could run and run for hours , she was a known cat killer so the only time she was allowed to free run was on this permission I had where the only cats were feral and wise to the dogs a greyhound confined to lead walks must surely be depressed ? Even now at 10/11 years old my lurcher still has a muzzle and if my granddad wants to walk him I make him take him muzzled , he wouldn't hurt anything but it keeps me happy knowing that if pappy forgets he's walking a sight hound and lets him off around cats that Oli wouldn't kill them or any pet rabbits as they live on an estate where cats and rabbits roam everywhere .

No QB you're not being unreasonable , muzzles are handed out with all rescue greyhounds , they should be used , they are so used to them that a muzzle is no morecruel than a lead on any other dog . And a 30kg dog rehomed to a frail old lady ???? Stupidity at its best

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

No QB you're not being unreasonable , muzzles are handed out with all rescue greyhounds , they should be used , they are so used to them that a muzzle is no morecruel than a lead on any other dog . And a 30kg dog rehomed to a frail old lady ???? Stupidity at its best

Such a sensible and pragmatic post, and specifically your last paragraph.

Alec.

 

[helena29]

I hope your cat is ok :-( Greyhounds are seen as easy dogs, suitable for anyone, but when I got noodles he would throw himself at cats, he is 30kg of muscle and bone, I had to add a harness so I had something else to hold on to as well as the lead as he could be so strong around cats (yes, he was muzzled). At one point he was also attached to a canicross belt to avoid any chance him getting away.

It took a huge amount of training but he will more walk past them on a loose lead, although he well never be cat safe. I also agree with Alec Swan, greyhounds need to run, noodles was a different dog once I found empty, enclosed areas where he could run. There are a lot of confused, frustrated greyhounds around and a lot of owners who say it is in their nature and don't even attempt training. I live in an area with 5 or 6 cats and we have never come close to an incident as I have never put him in that position, unfortunately an elderly lady with a strong ground is not a good mix.

 

[Woolybear]

I had a cat killed (Olive) years ago, by a 'retired' greyhound in the field behind my house (the dog walkers were trespassing) I was at work at the time, but my neighbour's children were traumatized by watching the whole thing, the cat was pursued full pelt across 4 acres of field by two off lead greyhounds and torn apart as she tried to get back over the fence into my garden. Some dogs can never be trusted no matter how much you retrain them, muzzles would have saved my Olive's life and my heartbreak. I'm so glad your cat is ok x

 

[{97702}]

Greyhound owners like this really infuriate me, there are far too many people already willing to jump on the bandwagon & say how dangerous ex-racing greyhounds are and how they shouldn't trust them, it is simply down to poor ownership! Greyhounds have been bred to chase/run for hundreds of years, what on earth do people think they are going to do when faced with a small furry fast-moving animal??!!

 

[Alec Swan]

A further point about controlling those dogs which are on a lead. I've yet to understand the argument for 'Harnesses' on dogs, when we consider 'control'. Harnesses are fitted to dogs which are used for pulling heavy weights. How does anyone expect to control a dog when the attachment is designed to make life easier for the 'pulling' animal, and not harder?

Alec.

 

[Fides]

A further point about controlling those dogs which are on a lead. I've yet to understand the argument for 'Harnesses' on dogs, when we consider 'control'. Harnesses are fitted to dogs which are used for pulling heavy weights. How does anyone expect to control a dog when the attachment is designed to make life easier for the 'pulling' animal, and not harder?

Alec.

Why can people just not understand this...

I think it is an excuse for poor training - if a dog pulls on a harness they they aren't perceived as being cruel, but they would injure the same dog using a collar.

 

[Queenbee]

Hi all, just a wee update... Thank you all for your messages and posts... Silva kitty has absolutely amazed me, she is up and about this morning, has eaten, toiletted, and actually left the house which I could never have predicted. Having spoken with the owners today who actually witnessed the attack, she was shaken... Her Arms and legs flying about was some of the terminology used . I'm just in shock that she is so unscathed.

With regards to harnesses, to be honest Alec I have found mine useful, I have a dog that could slip out of any collar, and she is only a reprobate near her favourite track, a little path that goes from the road down the side of a school and straight into a field, this harness allows me to hold her, without risk of her slipping her collar, while she does her best to start her little race from 100 yards away... I also don't give a monkeys about this little episode because she has cancer, she is old, stiff and has a short while left to live and since she behaves perfectly everywhere else I just deal with it... She basically goes bezerk because she knows she gets to take Archie the fat springer down along the track. She also and importantly wears a harness because she has a tumor the size of half a tennis ball on her thyroid, and I'm not going to put a normal collar around that for leading her. No they do have their place, and in my opinion they do help with control... Because the handlers action on the harness is not the same as the action exerted when pulling a heavy weight... The weight would be pulled in a more horizontal action, where as the handler should keep a shorter lead and use an upward pulling motion... Totally different effects on the dog.

With regards to the sanctuary and the owners I have spoken with both today... To be fair, I spoke with the main centre, not the kennels or the person doing the animal assessment or home checks, but have expressed my upset, my disbelief that this is an appropriate pairing, or indeed that such a pairing could ever happen. They are going to look at a better home for the dog and a better dog for the woman. Having chatted with the owners, I have made them aware that silva is well, and of my contact with the rescue centre. Apparently the mother and daughter walked him out muzzled today with two leads, totally not practical especially since the daughter has cancer. The mother needs a companion dog that she can safely control on her own. I have suggested with them the possibility of rehoming a smaller sight hound and recommended they discuss with the greyhound rescue centre as they have details for whippet rehoming on their website. I was also shocked when I popped to their house to see a low four foot max gate... Any greyhound could make mincemeat of. Any rehoming centre I know of would never place a dog of this type in a garden without higher fencing than that.

However, the bottom line is silva kitty is miraculously alive, and the centre are aware of the situation and will be acting appropriately to resolve it, they are also going to let me know how it has been resolved as this dog is currently on the same street as my cats and indeed a lot of other cats, albeit quite a way down the street.

 

[TrasaM]

Silva kitty is incredibly lucky. I hope she managed to draw blood ! I've got a cat fearing/hating dog and I have cats. I didn't realise until after I was committed to having him that he had problems..initially petrified of them but once braver starts baying and will chase. Hence he does not get off lead anywhere near cats ..other or my own . He did chase once but it was a but half hearted and more of a go away or else chase. But I still wouldn't chance him. Once I get the time and energy I will start to desensitise him..hopefully.bits possible that cats were used to get him to hunt and he came off worse
I hope for both the dog's and old ladies sake that she gets help with him or as you say a swap for a more suitable dog.

 

[Leo Walker]

Just to add to the discussion about muzzles, I've seen sight hounds use a muzzle to bludgeon prey to death, so its not quite as clear cut as that. My 2 live with a cat and are therefore pretty cat friendly but I still wouldnt trust my youngest not to chase and hurt a cat when he was off lead if one ran.

Mine are exercised off lead most days, they days they arent they run 5 to 10k with my partner. If they didnt they would be deranged lunatics within days. Too many people take on dogs like this and dont exercise them appropriately and it leads to trouble! My 2 sleep roughly 20 hours a day and are predominantly bone idle, but they do need exercise and stimulation. Dylan is a working bred whippet. He doesnt work but I spend a lot of time making him think he is working with games and training etc

 

[Queenbee]

Just to add to the discussion about muzzles, I've seen sight hounds use a muzzle to bludgeon prey to death, so its not quite as clear cut as that. My 2 live with a cat and are therefore pretty cat friendly but I still wouldnt trust my youngest not to chase and hurt a cat when he was off lead if one ran.

Mine are exercised off lead most days, they days they arent they run 5 to 10k with my partner. If they didnt they would be deranged lunatics within days. Too many people take on dogs like this and dont exercise them appropriately and it leads to trouble! My 2 sleep roughly 20 hours a day and are predominantly bone idle, but they do need exercise and stimulation. Dylan is a working bred whippet. He doesnt work but I spend a lot of time making him think he is working with games and training etc

Oh no I know, I've heard of similar instances, but my argument is that without a muzzle they would still have gone for the cat, a cat in my opinion has a stronger chance of getting away when a muzzle is used, and a muzzle will be enough of a barrier in some cases to protect a cat that would otherwise have been mauled or damaged.

I was a little bit ticked off as the women had been advised to not exercise the dog as much to let it lose muscle definition and fitness as a combative measure by a friend. I explained that the minimal level of walks their dogs get is a holiday in comparison to their old life and to restrict his exercise further is going to affect quality of life and turn him into a real problem dog. These women really are not very bright, and they are trying to manage an animal they have no understanding of, with little guidance from the rescue centre and inappropriate guidance from friends. What a shambles

 

[helena29]

Harnesses - he had a lead attached to collar and was walked like that, the harness was just so I had something else to hold him firmly when throwing himself around I am not stupid

 

[Love_my_Lurcher]

If I owned and raced a greyhound, when its racing days are over and if I wasn't going to retain the dog myself, then it would be put to sleep. Greyhounds through their breeding and training focus on one thing, killing, and expecting a dog to be desensitised to the main focus in its life, is being unrealistic. ALL greyhounds should be muzzled when in a public place.

We have two families in our village, and between them they have three retired greyhounds. The three are all neutered and obese, and they are never let off the lead, spending their lives either indoors or being led about. I don't call that much of a life, but they're their dogs so it's their choice. I often wonder why these people 'Save the dog's life', for what? A life of never having the ability to gallop, again? I have misgivings about all rescue centres, and specifically those who re-home greyhounds.

No Q-b, you're not being unreasonable. The dog is the responsibility of the owner, and to give any greyhound its freedom where there are likely to be cats around human domiciles is asking for trouble. Irish or not makes not a jot of difference.

I hope that today your poor little cat is ok. I'm surprised that without timely intervention, that she wasn't killed.

Alec.

So you would have an otherwise perfectly healthy dog who could go to a nice home killed just because it was no longer good enough for racing?

As for your wanting all Greyhounds to be muzzled while out in public and that they were trained for 'killing'. What a load of nonsense! Greyhounds are usually trained to chase NOT to kill. Sure some trainers will use live prey to keep them 'keen', but not all of them do. And my Greyhound does NOT need a muzzle. She and my other dog do get a lot of off lead time, but only in places where there aren't likely to be cats or other dogs.

To the OP. I am really sorry that your cat was attacked and am glad she is on the mend, but please remember that this was an unforseen accident. The woman might have had dogs before and never had anything like this happen. To blame the breed for this is also unfair. Just about any breed is capable of chasing and attacking a cat. I also knew a man a couple of years ago when he patrolled the paths in my area at school time. He was probably in his late sixties and would bring his Greyhounds with him. He took good care of them and they were given plenty of off lead exercise. So a person's age doesn't necessarily mean they won't be able to fulfil a dog's needs.

So Alec I am quite frankly disgusted by your comments and Queenbee, please be thankful that you cat is okay and calm down. I know I would be fuming if my dogs were attacked, but if it were a genuine accident then it would be slighly better than if somebody had deliberately set their dogs on mine.

 

[Love_my_Lurcher]

Silva kitty is incredibly lucky. I hope she managed to draw blood ! I've got a cat fearing/hating dog and I have cats. I didn't realise until after I was committed to having him that he had problems..initially petrified of them but once braver starts baying and will chase. Hence he does not get off lead anywhere near cats ..other or my own . He did chase once but it was a but half hearted and more of a go away or else chase. But I still wouldn't chance him. Once I get the time and energy I will start to desensitise him..hopefully.bits possible that cats were used to get him to hunt and he came off worse
I hope for both the dog's and old ladies sake that she gets help with him or as you say a swap for a more suitable dog.

You really hope the cat drew blood? Really?

 

[Luci07]

My dog walker specifically takes on grayhounds whom I have always thought are such graceful dogs. However, when talking to me one day, she surprised me at how much thought she has to give to day to day care. Her bitch is muzzled always, but properly walked. Does have let off areas but my walker told me that a 6 foot fence would not stop a GH in full flight. No wonder she thinks walking my staffords is, literally, a walk in the park!

 

[Love_my_Lurcher]

My dog walker specifically takes on grayhounds whom I have always thought are such graceful dogs. However, when talking to me one day, she surprised me at how much thought she has to give to day to day care. Her bitch is muzzled always, but properly walked. Does have let off areas but my walker told me that a 6 foot fence would not stop a GH in full flight. No wonder she thinks walking my staffords is, literally, a walk in the park!

I forgot to say before that mine has NOT attempted to jump a fence. She will jump over ditches and water, but has never jumped over a height. One time when we were at a friend's house my Lurcher jumped over a fence and Neamhnaid was stood right next to him and made no effort to follow him. In fact the lady at the Retired Greyhound Trust (where Neamhnaid) came from had never heard of a Greyhound jumping over a fence. Some might do, but to say that every Greyhound would is a sweeping statement.

 

[Penny Less]

There are several people local to me who have ex racing greyhounds. They are always walked on the lead but not muzzled. There is nowhere locally that you could let the dogs off for a really good race round that is fenced, so if they are not obedient to recall these dogs never get a proper run. Having had a lurcher for a month which used to clear 4ft fences with ease and disappear Im afraid I wouldn't have a greyhound or lurcher again. Said lurcher managed to get himself killed on a railway line by chasing bunnies under a railway line fence

 

[Montyforever]

I have a greyhound, he's never muzzled (got himself caught with it once and decided more hassle than they are worth given he nearly broke his neck!) I've got to admit he's an absolute **** and has put me off dogs for life end of but he is no worse than any other breed. Yes they chase, so do many other breeds! We have loads of cats come in the garden and he's been close to catching them sometimes but im not going to keep him on a lead in the garden. Its just not possible or fair.
One of my neighbours cats got attacked by another neighbours dog a few weeks back and he's a jack Russell x .. Time for the saying deed not breed i think!

I also have a cat who makes sure my dog tows the line. She ran at first but soon worked out that was not a smart idea and she now wallops him if he gets too close. Dogs own fault as he never learns!

 

[Alec Swan]

So you would have an otherwise perfectly healthy dog who could go to a nice home killed just because it was no longer good enough for racing?

…….. .

Yes, that's exactly what I'd do. I would never allow a cherished dog to end up, with an idiot. Have you ever owned racing dogs, or have you been on the other end, picking up the discarded racing remains?

Responsibility of ownership includes facing up to the end of the dog's days, and I'm sorry, but palming an animal off, and on to another, isn't what I call responsible ownership. Those who save themselves the disposal costs, of their dogs, by simply passing them on, are not responsible owners.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

As for your wanting all Greyhounds to be muzzled while out in public and that they were trained for 'killing'. What a load of nonsense! Greyhounds are usually trained to chase NOT to kill. ……...

You clearly have neither experience nor knowledge of greyhounds in training.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

……..

So Alec I am quite frankly disgusted by your comments and …….. .

Understand your topic, and you will perhaps, have a different viewpoint. I would be delighted to be wrong, but fear that I'm not!

Alec.

 

[Flicker]

QB, how is your cat today?

 

[TrasaM]

So greyhounds should only be used for racing or coursing ? AND despatched atvthe end of their miserable working life.

Does that mean therefore that;-

Collies should only ever be owned by farmers?

Hunting dogs by hunters?

GSD's used only for security work?

And so on..
That leaves most of us who don't hunt, herd or whatever else should restrict our choice of dogs to those meant only for decorative purposes because keeping a dog and not utilising it's breed specific tendencies is wrong and deprives or diminishes the dog in some way?
Such arrogance !

Anyone want to swap me a pekinese for my deprived diminished pointer?

 

[honetpot]

Most of greyhounds I see are unmuzzled, it seems to me they give a lot of pleasure to people who do not appear to be idiots. I have had two lurchers, of course bred for coursing, the first as a rescue so I assume he was actually used. Well going on the fact we had a free range guinea pig that had the run of a large garden and four cats they are not all killing machines. Dogs will run after anything small, squirrels drive mine demented but they manage to control their killing instincts with no trouble, we have a large garden and paddocks and the cats will actually go for a walk with them.
I have never had greyhounds but lurchers live for their sofa and comfort, would sleep 22hours out of 24, and are deaf to recall when it suits them and I wouldn't say mine need that much exercise and neither are over weight.
Local to me there are a few beagles, which seem to proportionally give more trouble, they do seem to like roaming. JR's get away with literally murder just because they are small, my friends attacked my goat and a neighbours managed to get in to my chicken run and kill three chickens in the space of a few minutes. I think your for more likely to get bitten or your cat killed by a JR, but they are just so inky dinky cute so one sees them as a pest.

 

[Alec Swan]

So greyhounds should only be used for racing or coursing ? AND despatched atvthe end of their miserable working life.

Does that mean therefore that;-

Collies should only ever be owned by farmers?

Hunting dogs by hunters?

GSD's used only for security work?

And so on..
That leaves most of us who don't hunt, herd or whatever else should restrict our choice of dogs to those meant only for decorative purposes because keeping a dog and not utilising it's breed specific tendencies is wrong and deprives or diminishes the dog in some way?
Such arrogance !

……..

You've raised interesting points.

Line 1. Generally yes. If greyhounds are taken as puppies and brought up within a family environment, then they will almost certainly be a different animal than the one which has had no input other than it's 'schooling' which has been single minded and focused upon one point, and that's to race. I won't be alone in feeling that the track dog when at the age of probably 3 or 4 years, spends the rest of its previously active life, on a sofa for 23 hours per day, and if it's really lucky, and weather permitting, it gets taken for a walk.

The very same problems arise with Thoroughbred horses which are out of training, and at the age of 5-7 years, they are taken on by Happy Hackers, and all so often with predictable results.

Generalisation is difficult, but those adult greyhounds which have come out of training are rarely that amenable or accepting of obedience work, and giving them their freedom has huge risks attached to it.

Line 2. Again, there are inherent problems with sheep dogs which have no outlet for their energies or their need for mental stimulation. The rescue centres have a very high percentage of unmanageable or difficult sheep dogs.

Line 3. The GSD has been bred, since the 1920s (and probably before) as a domestic pet, and by those with no clear wish to 'use' their dogs for the work which they were 'originally' bred for. We therefore now have a secondary 'type' (if that's the right word), which fits in fairly well with a domesticated existence, though there are still throwbacks, and it's these throwbacks which most of our Police Forces still rely on for a source of their dogs.

Your last paragraph; I accept that it isn't the easiest question to deal with, and I've also previously said that if we remove all 'Work-bred-breeds' from the pet list, then what are we left with? Nonetheless, it remains my argument that when people take on the breeds of purpose-bred dogs, then they really do need to consider that they are taking on an animal, possibly for 10-15 years, which may have breed specific needs and requirements. That isn't arrogance, that's fact.

Your post has rather wandered away from the subject of Retired Greyhounds, and I've followed you! I'm sorry if you find my thoughts unpalatable. I have opinions to which I'm entitled, and arrogance it may be, but if others would face up to the realities of canine ownership, we wouldn't have so many ill-qualified breeders, supplying so many ill-qualified owners, who in turn are the bread and butter of so many ill-qualified rescue centres.

Alec.