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Personally I ignore all the archaic and outdated opinions AS comes out with, he is not worth listening to....
Greyhound attack... Am I being unreasonable?
- Thread starter Queenbee
- Start date
Personally I ignore all the archaic and outdated opinions AS comes out with, he is not worth listening to....
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
Have trawled through a few comments here........ I'm with Alec on this one, very much so.
Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".
Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same
).
Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.
If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.
Your poor puss: hope she is all right.
Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".
Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same
).Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.
If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.
Your poor puss: hope she is all right.
Flicker
Well-Known Member
I am another one with Alec. If an animal has been trained from an early age to do one thing only, asking it to do something completely different is going to be extremely stressful for it. Some animals adapt easily, some take more time. Some don't adapt at all. I have friends who are struggling with a rescue border collie. She is not an old dog, but has an enormous amount of baggage due to her upbringing. She escapes with Houdini like cleverness, is terrified of strange men, trailers, children, bikes, horses, cattle... She can't go off lead anywhere because she just bolts off. She raids the fridge and gorges herself, then sicks it all back up. She has chewed all her teeth to stumps. I can't imagine the life she must have led, poor little thing. They are going to give her as much training, structure and support as they can, but are also conscious that if she doesn't improve the kindest decision they can take for her is to put her to sleep. She's a lucky girl to have wound up where she has a chance, but if she's still not happy in her new life, why force it?
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Have trawled through a few comments here........ I'm with Alec on this one, very much so.
Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".
Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same
Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.
If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.
Your poor puss: hope she is all right.
"Kill on sight predator animal" ???!!! Clearly you have never owned a rescue greyhound.....
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And another who clearly has never had a rescue greyhound.....
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
The curious thing about racing dogs is that those which are retired early are probably the brightest of them. No dog chases a lure for fun. The dog does so in the belief that it will catch and kill what it chases. When dogs work out for themselves, that their efforts will be to no avail, then that's all so often when they fail to put in the effort, and hence they are retired. The moral aspect of breeding dogs which will probably only ever be fit for one purpose, and then to kill them before they reach a true maturity, is a question which we all have to answer for ourselves, I suppose.
Flicker, the ability of some dogs, to 'self harm' is truly dreadful. 'Self harm' takes many forms. I've no idea where you or your friends are based, but I wonder if it might be an idea for me to head you, or them, in the direction of someone who is an experienced Sheep-dog Trialler. Such people are dotted all over the country, and they are generally a decent bunch of people; possibly old and archaic in their methods, but by demonstration, they can establish their points.
I would avoid the behaviourists, were I in the shoes of your friends, and seek out those who know what they're talking about. If you think that I can be of help, then PM me. It seems a shame to see a dog put down, for a lack of direction.
Alec.
Flicker, the ability of some dogs, to 'self harm' is truly dreadful. 'Self harm' takes many forms. I've no idea where you or your friends are based, but I wonder if it might be an idea for me to head you, or them, in the direction of someone who is an experienced Sheep-dog Trialler. Such people are dotted all over the country, and they are generally a decent bunch of people; possibly old and archaic in their methods, but by demonstration, they can establish their points.
I would avoid the behaviourists, were I in the shoes of your friends, and seek out those who know what they're talking about. If you think that I can be of help, then PM me. It seems a shame to see a dog put down, for a lack of direction.
Alec.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
So you would have an otherwise perfectly healthy dog who could go to a nice home killed just because it was no longer good enough for racing?
As for your wanting all Greyhounds to be muzzled while out in public and that they were trained for 'killing'. What a load of nonsense! Greyhounds are usually trained to chase NOT to kill. Sure some trainers will use live prey to keep them 'keen', but not all of them do. And my Greyhound does NOT need a muzzle. She and my other dog do get a lot of off lead time, but only in places where there aren't likely to be cats or other dogs.
To the OP. I am really sorry that your cat was attacked and am glad she is on the mend, but please remember that this was an unforseen accident. The woman might have had dogs before and never had anything like this happen. To blame the breed for this is also unfair. Just about any breed is capable of chasing and attacking a cat. I also knew a man a couple of years ago when he patrolled the paths in my area at school time. He was probably in his late sixties and would bring his Greyhounds with him. He took good care of them and they were given plenty of off lead exercise. So a person's age doesn't necessarily mean they won't be able to fulfil a dog's needs.
So Alec I am quite frankly disgusted by your comments and Queenbee, please be thankful that you cat is okay and calm down. I know I would be fuming if my dogs were attacked, but if it were a genuine accident then it would be slighly better than if somebody had deliberately set their dogs on mine.
I am very grateful believe me, however I personally don't see that when comparing negligence and ignorance resulting in an accident vs a deliberate attack one is any less awful than the first. You said you exercise your dogs unmuzzled in areas away from other dogs/cats, but that is you being responsible. What exactly do you think is appropriate when you have an ex racer whose character you don't know and your only option is to walk out of your front door in an area that is built up with lots of pet cats? You may be able to control your animal but this old lady would have difficulty controlling a chihuahua. That dog should not have been placed with her, especially without a full appraisal, and she should not have been walking it through that area unmuzzled without knowing its character. It is that simple.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
Have trawled through a few comments here........ I'm with Alec on this one, very much so.
Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".
Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same
Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.
If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.
Your poor puss: hope she is all right.
I have contacted them, I explained that it was a very bad match, that the dog deserved better and the woman did too. After being standoffish, they were pretty helpful and are going to try and find better solution for both the dog and the old lady... Lol, but I did laugh at the beginning when she said oh none of our greyhounds are ever muzzled. I know many people that have extensive experience with a range of sight hounds including racers who would flip at such a irresponsible practice. It's not bad if you know the dogs temperament etc but with dogs you know nothing about, it's idiotic and Wreckless.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Have trawled through a few comments here........ I'm with Alec on this one, very much so.
Am frankly appalled that any rescue organisation could be so irresponsible as to re-home what is basically a kill-on-sight predator animal, and a strong and very intelligent one at that, with these new owners. A frail elderly person is just NOT going to be able to physically hold back a dog in kill-mode. Even a little dog can be strong when they see "prey".
Don't know whether it would be worth, OP, contacting the rescue organisation and telling them what has happened? and/or the RSPCA (of course, they may be one and the same
Also perhaps local newspapers? Parish magazines? To make others aware basically.
If this can happen with a cat it could also attack another dog: with horrendous consequences.
Your poor puss: hope she is all right.
''kill-on-sight predator animal'', could be a JR, but they because they are small are considered no threat, and very often ill disciplined but they are just a capable of killing any cat and nipping any child.
Dogs as always are only as dangerous as their owners allow them to be.
Flicker
Well-Known Member
Lévrier;12626076 said:
My post was about a border collie. And generally about some animals being more adaptable to new circumstances than others.
Flicker
Well-Known Member
Alec, thank you. I will ask them whether they are going anywhere in particular for her training or whether they could do with a steer. They are good, sensible people, they will do right by her.
lastchancer
Well-Known Member
Lévrier;12626074 said:
No, but our next door neighbors did, it jumped the fence and killed my mothers cat leaving her heartbroken. It was sent back to the rescue and most likely re-homed to another ignorant do-gooder to do the same thing. If I'd had a gun I'd have shot it, along with the owners and the deluded idiot rescue center that re-homed it to them.
lastchancer
Well-Known Member
Absolutely right, and the same goes for horses too.
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Wow. One of those posts which make me so glad that this is just a forum & I don't have to know those who contribute in real life.
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I was referring to your comment that an animal trained for one purpose in life will find it "stressful" to adapt to another lifestyle - not true in the cases of the many rescue greyhounds I have known
lastchancer
Well-Known Member
Lévrier;12626964 said:
I'm awesome in real life, just not keen on irresponsible muppets causing misery to people. I also like greyhounds, but not enough to let them kill my pets.
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So awesome you would shoot a dog, it's owners & the rescue representatives just for an accident (which I will say was clearly preventable by responsible dog owners) where a cat died? Not my definition of an awesome person, it makes my blood run cold
lastchancer
Well-Known Member
Lévrier;12626971 said:So awesome you would shoot a dog, it's owners & the rescue representatives just for an accident (which I will say was clearly preventable by responsible dog owners) where a cat died? Not my definition of an awesome person, it makes my blood run cold
I exaggerated. I'd only shoot the dog. Why should the dogs life be more valuable than a cats? Yes it could have been prevented but it wasn't because the dog had fallen into the hands of idiots. Which of course illustrates the problem with re-homing such dogs, and I dare say is why people like Alec would prefer to pts his retired greyhounds rather than re-home. This kind of problem isn't just about greyhounds though, it's relevent to all breeds and species of animal. If rescues would do what needs to be done and dispose of those with questionable temperaments there would be far fewer animals in need of rescue and the good ones wouldn't be stuck in second rate shelters desperately waiting to find a kind home.
darli
Well-Known Member
Can I shoot the cat that killed one of my pond fish last night then?
OP I fully understand your upset and would feel that way myself should it have happened to one of my cats and am sorry that it happened. I have, unfortunately, witnessed a similar incident when a neighbours cat was hunting in a horses field behind their garden. One of the liveries dogs, a weimeraner killed it out right. The dog hadn't been trained to kill live animals, hadn't been trained to chase, wasn't a hunter and was a very well trained family pet. All parties were extremely upset. I guess I am saying that it could happen with any breed anywhere.
do think the rescue is at fault with it's re homing policy and that they really have to revisit that. I know we complain about some of the rescues being overly strict with their policies there is a rescue near me that homed a three year old Dobie to a new dog owner who lived on her own but work 12 hour shifts, never had a dog before and the poor dog had seperation issues. Never should have re homed to her, fortunately the lady soon realised that it was unfair to have a dog in her situation and she returned him.
Hope your cat continues to recover.
Love_my_Lurcher
Well-Known Member
Yes, ANY breed is capable of attacking a cat and that is what I have already said. I am sick of some on here blaming Greyhounds and sight hounds in general.
However I do think that some rescues should not be as strict as they are. The Dog's Trust refused to give my Mum and I an older staffie when we were first looking for a dog. They did so because he had been a stray and we did not have much experience with the breed. But how on earth are you supposed to get experience of a breed if a rescue will not give you one? My Mum and I had a really strong gut feeling about the dog and that he would have been a good dog for us. However the DT refused us. We ended up getting Brochan from the Edinburgh Dog and Cat Home. Now Brochan had been a stray, but they still let us have him. Turns out he has been a perfect addition to our family. When we considered a second dog we went back to the DT and it turned out the staffie would have been right for us as he had been in a foster home and he would have ticked all the boxes. We adopted him, but Brochan would not accept him in the house. We had to take him back the next day. We later found out that he went to another home, but was returned again because one of their dogs attacked him. He ended up spending the last of his days at the DT and in a foster home. That poor dog would not have gone through that if the DT had just given him to us in the first place. I do have to wonder how many dogs are still in rescue centres because people like my Mum and I had been refused on the basis of 'the dog has been a stray so is therefore unsuitable for you' and 'you have never had the breed before so you cannot have this dog'. I am sorry, but if they refuse because of those things then they are doing their dogs a massive disfavour. They are denying them the chance of a good home based on what if's and maybes. I am not advocating that rescues give to any old person that walks through the door, but if a person demonstrates a willingness to learn about a particular breed and to work with whatever problems the dog may have then I do think they should get the chance of having a dog.
Regarding your opening sentence. I would like to ask those of you who let your cats roam the streets the following question. Why is it okay to let your cats out when they will then go on to kill birds (including chickens, racing pigeons and endangered wild birds) and poop in other peoples gardens? It wouldn't be okay if dogs were to do the same thing. You are also jeopardizing the safety of your cats by letting them out. Not only are they at risk from being attacked by dogs and nasty humans, they could also be killed on the road or they could cause a serious accident. Perhaps if you kept your cats indoors or in an enclosed outdoor run then they wouldn't be at risk from injury themselves nor would they pose a risk to others. You are furious about people not keeping their dogs under control, but what about your cats who are not under any sort of control? This is perhaps not the time to be asking those things, but I do think it needs saying. To the OP. This is NOT an attack on you, but it is something I am curious about.
For the record I do like cats and don't think they should be harmed, but I do think that if precautions were taken then no harm would come to them. A friend of mine has several cats. She always used to keep them indoors or in an outdoor run. She then got a cat who was used to roaming outdoors. He inspired her to start letting her other cats out. One of her other cats was killed a couple of weeks later on the road.
Love_my_Lurcher
Well-Known Member
Lévrier;12626971 said:So awesome you would shoot a dog, it's owners & the rescue representatives just for an accident (which I will say was clearly preventable by responsible dog owners) where a cat died? Not my definition of an awesome person, it makes my blood run cold
That is pretty much what I was going to say.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
So what are you saying LML? That cat owners are to blame if their cat is attacked by a dog, because they should either keep the cat indoors or in a run?
Love_my_Lurcher
Well-Known Member
Lévrier;12625830 said:
That is what I have come to believe as well. If I can remember correctly he once said that he kills his OWN dogs with a bolt gun.
I posted a thread a while ago asking for help with regards to my Greyhound's peeing, toilet training and a few other issues she was having. He more or less said that I had a bad one.
It is attitudes like his that makes me despise the human race even more. The belief that when a non human is no longer fit for purpose then it should be killed and nobody should ever take the animal on to give it a better home just fills me with rage.
To AS. My Greyhound has adapted to home life extremely well. She LOVES the sofa and LOVES playing with her toys and my other dog. She lives a life of luxury and is no longer confined to small kennels nor is she made to race. The scars on her body (caused by being kept in concrete kennels and from racing itself) have more or less healed. Just how are those things bad for her? If her previous owner had the same mindset as you then she would have been killed. She would never have known what it was like to have people who actually loved her for her and not for the money that she could make. She would never have known life away from racing. And my Mum and I would not have our incredibly sweet Greyhound girl.
Love_my_Lurcher
Well-Known Member
I can remember a while back that there was a thread about a dog that was hit by a car and other members blamed the dog's owner for not keeping better control of it. So why should cats be any different?
So yes I am in a way saying that cat owners should be more responsible for their cats.
To me it is a tad hypocritical to say that people need to control their dogs all the while letting their cats out to do whatever they want and to possibly get themselves or somebody injured or worse. I have also come across cat poo in both my front and back garden and it's not pleasant.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
some dogs kill cats, some dogs kill rabbits etc etc etc
some dogs dont.
OP I am glad your cat appears OK and agree the rescue centre are to blame and pleased you have made them aware of the situation.
racing greyhounds are not trained to kill, although the drive to catch the 'rag' is often due to the desire to catch it I agree.
years ago my dads friend had a beautiful ex racing greyhound called saxon, he did not retire till he was 4yrs and had been very very successful on the track and used as a stud dog due to his breeding and success-he lived on a small holding with my dads friend, they had free range chickens, ducks, turkeys lots and lots and lots of cats and kittens, 2 small dogs, rabbits and guinea pigs in runs, he spent 5 years on that farm till he was PTS and he never showed any interest in killing anything-I do think it is unusual but does show you cannot assume that they are all the same.
a responsible owner will be prepared to muzzle an ex racer till they have a good idea of temperament and a good recall and it can take plenty of time but is possible with many
some dogs dont.
OP I am glad your cat appears OK and agree the rescue centre are to blame and pleased you have made them aware of the situation.
racing greyhounds are not trained to kill, although the drive to catch the 'rag' is often due to the desire to catch it I agree.
years ago my dads friend had a beautiful ex racing greyhound called saxon, he did not retire till he was 4yrs and had been very very successful on the track and used as a stud dog due to his breeding and success-he lived on a small holding with my dads friend, they had free range chickens, ducks, turkeys lots and lots and lots of cats and kittens, 2 small dogs, rabbits and guinea pigs in runs, he spent 5 years on that farm till he was PTS and he never showed any interest in killing anything-I do think it is unusual but does show you cannot assume that they are all the same.
a responsible owner will be prepared to muzzle an ex racer till they have a good idea of temperament and a good recall and it can take plenty of time but is possible with many
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Wow LML, that's a hell of a stance to take.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Absolutely! I am not a cat fan and don't welcome them in my garden but would expect my lurcher to leave them alone if we met one out on a walk. Ditto small fluffy dogs. Rabbits/squirrels etc I have never bothered teaching her to leave.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
That is what I have come to believe as well. If I can remember correctly he once said that he kills his OWN dogs with a bolt gun.
…….. .
Would you care to explain to us what a 'bolt gun' is?
If you remember correctly? If you remember correctly and weren't quite so quick to judge, and if you weren't as some others, so quick to form opinions based upon ignorance, you would remember that I've always emphasised the point that when I bring my dog's life to a close, it is done with humanity and with the dog's well being to the fore.
Consider this; Have you ever stood and watched a vet nurse put a slip lead on a difficult dog and pull the lead through a doorway, with the dog pulled up against a closing door, so that a vet could get a needle into the kidney of a fighting and struggling and screaming dog, because there was no other way? You haven't? Well I have. Not all humane destructions are as I've described, but having witnessed such treatment, no one else will ever put a dog of mine to sleep. I've also witnessed the botched dispatch of cats and horses, and again, I take responsibility for mine.
I put my own dogs down in an environment where they are at peace, where there is no perceived threat and where their passing is instant. That's how my horses leave this world too. I don't expect you to understand me, because you will probably be one of those who hands your dog over to total strangers, and you leave them to complete the dirty work, with the only thought being whether you can 'cope with it, or not'.
I put my own dogs to sleep, it is a job which I loathe, and when it's over, I shed my tears, I dig a hole, and I have the certain knowledge that I've faced my responsibilities. I don't expect others to be able to deal with the situation as I do, but take exception to those who would judge from a position of the ill informed.
I object to being judged by those who are not qualified, and you are amongst them.
Alec.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Dear Alec, bad things happen sometimes, unfortunately things go wrong despite every ones best efforts but for the majority of us the vets needle is a peaceful passing for our animals. The vet comes to my house to inject my dogs, cats, and Floppy the goat in their homes and on their own sofa, not the goat. The majority of us would not have the skill to despatch any animal even if we thought doing otherwise would be letting someone else do our 'dirty work'. I value the huntsmans services as much as the vet and I always say thank you and give them a gift.
My one armed next door neighbour once asked to borrow a shot gun from another neighbour to put destroy a cat, they were more concerned about the vets fee than the animals welfare. Who wants the thousands of people doing botched jobs with animals for practice, you do not need to be qualified in any way to realise its not a good idea.
My one armed next door neighbour once asked to borrow a shot gun from another neighbour to put destroy a cat, they were more concerned about the vets fee than the animals welfare. Who wants the thousands of people doing botched jobs with animals for practice, you do not need to be qualified in any way to realise its not a good idea.
AmyMay
Situation normal
That is what I have come to believe as well. If I can remember correctly he once said that he kills his OWN dogs with a bolt gun.
And???? Does this mean he has any less compassion for his animals than you? No of course not. As an experienced countryman he simply chooses to dispatch his animals in a way he feels is best for them - as he has the experience and skill to do that.
I couldn't do it, but I salute the person that can (again, with the interests of the animal being foremost).
I agree with Honetpot, in that my animals have always been dispatched by a vet or huntsman - stressless and with compassion. However that doesn't mean that AS is wrong in his actions. He just chooses a different method. Because he can.