Ground poles ?

[Berties owner]

Hi members I'm new to forum (and to owning a horse lol) and looking for some advice. Sorry for the long post ?

We bought Bertie last September and it became apparent very quickly that we had purchased a very poorly and badly looked after ex racehorses. He's a 16.2 thoroughbred gelding who's 8. He only raced twice and was sold at 3 after that it's anyone's guess what's happened to him.

Our plan was to let him settle into the yard over the winter but after having a grass crack fixed at the end of November by the start of February he desperately needed a vet. It turns out the farrier had used the wrong sized staple and banged it so far in that it had rotted a large part of his pedal bone away. That unfortunately was only the start of my boys road to recovery. Since April he has had both his rear suspensory ligaments de-nerved top bottom and middle. He has had kissing spine surgery on the majority of his spine and he has had his hocks fused together.

Soooooo this leads me to my problem. He is now well enough to return to normal work and he really is amazing but as part of his rehab he has to do a lot of ground poles. He is very nervous of these but I have him walking without a lead rein across them majority of the time (for a treat obviously lol) if he ever does a raised on one side pole he won't go near any again without serious encouragement and he will rarely long rein or ride over them without me on the ground with him. If he clips the pole he explodes forward sometimes (this morning) resulting in me face planting the arena floor. I'm at a loss as to how to make him aware of his feet so he doesn't have the over reaction when he hits it. It can be one pole or several there's the same reaction regardless of my layout. Does anyone have any advice or tips on how to overcome the problem? Anything at all would be so appreciated ?

The first picture was February before his teatmemt and second picture is now he really is inspirational ?

 

[holeymoley]

Are you sure he’s not sore?

 

[Berties owner]

Are you sure he’s not sore?

Hi thanks for your reply i can't be 100% sure he isn't but the way he leaps around in the field suggests it's more phycological. He's been doing the ground poles for 3 weeks now As part of his rehab and will happily do 20 minutes providing he doesn't have an ordeal that puts him off ie: clipping one. I'm at a loss as to how to progress with his rehab as they need to be used ?

 

[ihatework]

He’s had all that done in the space of 3 months?! I’m not even sure my very good orthopaedic vets would attempt that.

If so I imagine he is blumming uncomfortable.

 

[Berties owner]

He’s had all that done in the space of 3 months?! I’m not even sure my very good orthopaedic vets would attempt that.

If so I imagine he is blumming uncomfortable.

Yes all in 3 months the vet decided that it had to be done quickly for his comfort and health otherwise we would loose him. I understand he's still uncomfortable which is why i never force him to do anything he doesnt want to and try to do everything off the lead rein but I don't know how to help him with his rehab that has to be done twice a day for 30miutes if he won't do the ground poles.

 

[ihatework]

Please tell me you haven’t been riding him?

What level of painkiller is he on?

How frequently is he getting physio and vet review?

I honestly don’t think lots of raised poles at this stage is the be all and end all, it’s quite a skilled thing to be undertaking this level of rehab.

If you are insistent on continuing with it then go and buy some railway sleepers and scatter them about. Not close together in a line.

Have you considered sending him off to a rehab yard?

 

[Berties owner]

Please tell me you haven’t been riding him?

What level of painkiller is he on?

How frequently is he getting physio and vet review?

I honestly don’t think lots of raised poles at this stage is the be all and end all, it’s quite a skilled thing to be undertaking this level of rehab.

If you are insistent on continuing with it then go and buy some railway sleepers and scatter them about. Not close together in a line.

Have you considered sending him off to a rehab yard?

Yes hes being ridden now As guided amd advised by the vet. Please only comment on this post if its helpful I have a very detailed rehab sheet that I'm following and these kind of comments arent very confident giving. I've already stated the poles aren't off the ground

 

[ihatework]

Apologies. I misread the ground poles.

But all I can think from the description of what this horse has had done in the last 6 months is amazement that he would be considered physically capable of being under saddle yet (if ever).

Seriously though, there are expert yards out there that undertake this sort of rehab. If you are a novice owner it might be safer for you.

I suspect what you are seeing is a combination of pain/expectation of pain and probably a horse that just isn’t educated with poles.

 

[Berties owner]

Apologies. I misread the ground poles.

But all I can think from the description of what this horse has had done in the last 6 months is amazement that he would be considered physically capable of being under saddle yet (if ever).

Seriously though, there are expert yards out there that undertake this sort of rehab. If you are a novice owner it might be safer for you.

I suspect what you are seeing is a combination of pain/expectation of pain and probably a horse that just isn’t educated with poles.

I agree with all you've said but in a year I've spent nearly £15000 on him and I simply dont have the money to apply to sending him away to rehab. I'm sorry you feel that he shouldn't be ridden or may never be ridden but that is not the advise I've been given. I am really only looking for maybe a tip on the feet awareness not a lecture about my capabilities as a horse owner experienced or not. I will remove my post as the negativity isn't remotely helpful and is actually quite confidence crushing making me wonder if I'm at all what my horse needs. Please be advised people come here for advice not to be made to feel incapable when they are already feeling at a loss. Thanks for the reply.

 

[holeymoley]

Hi thanks for your reply i can't be 100% sure he isn't but the way he leaps around in the field suggests it's more phycological. He's been doing the ground poles for 3 weeks now As part of his rehab and will happily do 20 minutes providing he doesn't have an ordeal that puts him off ie: clipping one. I'm at a loss as to how to progress with his rehab as they need to be used ?

It just sounds a heck of a lot for him to go through and to be expected to return to normal work. I know you’re doing it gradually with ground work but if it’s all been done within the last few months he’s bound to not be quite right. Has he seen a chiropractor, masseuse etc etc? These are all biggys that have been worked on. Especially the pedal bone part- I wouldn’t be working anything that had problems with it’s pedal bone for at least 9months-1year.

 

[ihatework]

I’m sorry you perceive my comments that way. But I’m not sorry for my comments. Honestly this is so much bigger than your horses feet awareness.

You obviously care deeply about your horse to be as hurt by my comments as you are.

Personally I think you have been very let down. Let down by whoever passed this horse on to you and let down by a vet that has let you rack up 15k on a severely compromised horse presumably knowing you are inexperienced enough to not quite grasp the rehab journey ahead of you and the potential long term outcomes.

Lucky horse to have you on his side!

But please also keep yourself safe.

 

[be positive]

It is an awful lot for him to have been through and it is not as if he was properly educated in the first place so has no foundations in place to give you a start, I agree with ihw but would also be less negative in what you may achieve over time, I think vets can be rather unrealistic, often lack real life experience of what rehab entails, the 'perfect' rehab is not going to be appropriate for a horse that does not have the basics in place so it needs adapting to fit the individual not to what the book says.

I would find a really good ACPAT physio and see what they advise regarding rehab, I suspect they will say slow down and get back to basics, he does not sound ready to be in 'normal' work for numerous reasons, having a different pro involved should really help, I rehabbed one in a totally different way to what the vets wanted, my physio wanted everything done much more slowly and to me is made much more sense than pushing on, the horse did come sound and totally changed how he carried himself by being taken at a steadier pace so he learned each step properly especially how to use poles by looking, thinking and using his whole body.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Yes hes being ridden now As guided amd advised by the vet. Please only comment on this post if its helpful I have a very detailed rehab sheet that I'm following

It would helpful to people who are trying to help if you could post a pic of the ‘very detailed rehab sheet’ .

That is one heck of a lot of major work that your horse has had done to him recently, especially during the pandemic.

 

[Wheels]

Have you spoken to the vet who prescribed this rehab programme to tell them you are having difficulties?

This is almost certainly a pain response of some sort and I would want their input.

Good luck

 

[Trouper]

I do feel for you. Having had an ex-racer and also put another horse thro' KS surgery I know the anxiety you must be feeling over all this. However, I do agree with other comments here that he is doing a lot for a horse at that stage of his re-hab. If I felt my vet was very experienced in this sort of thing well, maybe, I would be following the programme but I think sometimes it help to take a step back and look at what you have in front of you. He was clearly not in a good way when you got him so was not using his body properly before all the other issues came along and were dealt with.
I would be wanting regular physio sessions - or sports massage - for him and I would not be asking him to work in circles or over poles (which is really hard work for any horse - particularly an unfit one) or on any soft surfaces. Any good back to work programme starts with a lot of walking out - in hand if he can't be ridden - and I would be doing only this until my physio said he was ready for more. The basic groundwork to get him moving is so important at this stage so it is worth going really slowly.
I know that comments on here can sound a bit harsh but please remember that they come from people who are experienced and have gone thro' a lot with their horses. Vets don't have all the answers - and the best ones tell you that they learnt most from their patients.!!
I hope he starts to improve soon.

 

[holeymoley]

As above. I echo that any rehab to bring back in to work is normally all done out and in straight lines (the old fashioned way!) and it works. I absolutely wouldn’t be doing circles of any sort in the school.

 

[doodle]

I may be totally wrong but you say he has been denerved? This will mean he can’t feel his feet so no wonder he is clipping the poles and then panicking.

 

[Marigold4]

Hi members I'm new to forum (and to owning a horse lol) and looking for some advice. Sorry for the long post ?

We bought Bertie last September and it became apparent very quickly that we had purchased a very poorly and badly looked after ex racehorses. He's a 16.2 thoroughbred gelding who's 8. He only raced twice and was sold at 3 after that it's anyone's guess what's happened to him.

Our plan was to let him settle into the yard over the winter but after having a grass crack fixed at the end of November by the start of February he desperately needed a vet. It turns out the farrier had used the wrong sized staple and banged it so far in that it had rotted a large part of his pedal bone away. That unfortunately was only the start of my boys road to recovery. Since April he has had both his rear suspensory ligaments de-nerved top bottom and middle. He has had kissing spine surgery on the majority of his spine and he has had his hocks fused together.

Soooooo this leads me to my problem. He is now well enough to return to normal work and he really is amazing but as part of his rehab he has to do a lot of ground poles. He is very nervous of these but I have him walking without a lead rein across them majority of the time (for a treat obviously lol) if he ever does a raised on one side pole he won't go near any again without serious encouragement and he will rarely long rein or ride over them without me on the ground with him. If he clips the pole he explodes forward sometimes (this morning) resulting in me face planting the arena floor. I'm at a loss as to how to make him aware of his feet so he doesn't have the over reaction when he hits it. It can be one pole or several there's the same reaction regardless of my layout. Does anyone have any advice or tips on how to overcome the problem? Anything at all would be so appreciated ?

The first picture was February before his teatmemt and second picture is now he really is inspirational ?

Have you thought of reporting the farrier or even suing him for negligence - if he used the wrong pin then he should be liable for some of the cost of treatment? At least if you report him, you will be protecting other horses from his carelessness.

 

[Fools Motto]

I'm not going to repeat what others have said.
Regarding the pole work, i've heard and experienced several horses being very confused/frightened of poles. What I can suggest is using pool noodles - weighed down at the ends by some sand. If the horse steps on it, it squashes, doesn't have the 'tonk' sound if they clip it, nor should it roll. Perhaps this is an option? Or gives you an idea of what you could do/adapt? Don't continue if he is frightened, I really would worry if his reactions could undo all the work you've done to get him this far.

 

[WelshD]

You can get soft poles these days or as FM says above pool noodles would do

Something I did do though with one pony is use line marking paint to mark the ground just so he could see where his feet were going then graduated him to poles

 

[dorsetladette]

Your poor lad has been through an awful lot OP.

Has the vet said why he wants pole work done? Which part of your horse is the vet expecting he pole work to improve?

I'm only asking as it may effect any suggestion I make.

 

[TPO]

Personally I agree with IHW posts. It's clear that you have good intentions and that you care for your horse. However those are some serious issues and procedures to have been done in the short space of time between April and now.

I 100% would not be riding at this stage however if you are I'd want a saddle fitter out very regularly & working in conjunction with an excellent therapist (physio/chiro/body worker etc).

I've trained in equine body work, McT-C and saddle fitting along with shadowing vets and dentists having owned horses my whole life (37 just now). I cant comprehend a rehab plan that has you riding at this stage. If all of the procedures happened bang in 1 april this is only 16wks later, so realistically you're more likely to be around 12wk mark.

The incremental increases on a rehab plan are so small to ensure an excellent base fitness and slow strengthening plan.

Your horse has a much better body score in your "after" picture but is still completely lacking in any topline. The groundwork is used alone to develop this before introducing tack. When tack (ie a "stress") is added the duration is cut right back again and slowly rebuild then the same again when a rider is introduced.

The poles could be causing pain, especially when raised. Alongside the KS and denerving procedures hes also had an infected pedal bone, think if youd had similar pain and had to flex joints to take big steps (and all the muscles uses to do so) never mind if you rattled one.

Maybe the vet hasnt explained things well enough or maybe you didnt understand the implications (not a dig, we all need to learn) but in your shoes I'd be getting a second opinion from another vet and engaging the services of an excellent therapist and saddle fitter (if done correctly ground work will change the horses shape very quickly and therefore affect saddle fit).

I'm sorry that you and your horse are going through this and 15k down this path...

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I won't repeat the comments that others have made but will definitely second the advice to get a 2nd veterinary opinion. Some vets don't know when to call time, I'm afraid, either that or they see ££ signs with inexperienced owners, who care very much about their horse.

 

[exracehorse]

15k! Hope he was insured

 

[Ossy2]

Your horse is very lucky to have you and give him such a chance but KS rehab is notoriously a long and drawn out process and I know you are following the vets advice which is great but I’m super surprised that you are on board again already I would have thought there would have been a much more considerable in hand work and long reining programme before ridden work. KS horses are notoriously more susceptible to pain and they need endless amounts of patience and massive rewards for the tiniest of things. I’d say your horse is still in the unpredictable stage and is still building his own confidence on doing things, therefore to answer your original question I’d do it on long reins I wouldn’t have a line of raised poles I’d have 1 or 2 split up in the arena so he is only doing one at a time with massive rewards when he does it and go from there.

 

[ycbm]

The answer to your query about poles is to be sure he isn't hurting, then do more of them unridden only until he stops panicking when he touches one.

I'm really struggling to understand how a sand crack was fixed in November with a staple, and without absolutely crippling the horse at the time your farrier managed to insert a staple which rotted his pedal bone away by February. Was the hoof resected to get the pedal bone rot out? If not, is it certain that the bone was actually there before the staple was put in?
.

 

[Jumoro]

I am so sorry that you and your horse are going through this - you obviously care a great deal for him so i realise how tough this must be.

My horse had KS surgery Feb-2019 and both hocks medicated subsequent to that. I'm pretty novicey so there was no way i could have managed the rehab on my own & I was terrified of getting it wrong. However, with a lot of help from a really experienced instructor, an excellent ACPAT physio and my vet, 18 months down the line he's a different horse. I'm not sure what help you have but I would highly recommend getting the right team onboard to work with you both (if you haven't already).

I don't have any specific advice re. the pole work but I found that the pace/nature of the rehab was very much driven by his progress and - especially initially - was very slow. To start with we focused on working in straight lines - both in hand at first and then under saddle and spent lots of time hacking and very little time in the school or working on surfaces. This really seemed to help him physically and mentally. Once he was stronger and working more correctly we were able to up the pace and gradually introduce more schoolwork, poles and jumping - all areas where he used to lack enthusiasm but now enjoys immensely.

Just ignore me if any of this is not helpful and good luck as you move forwards.

 

[Goldenstar]

I mean this in the kindest way .
the only people who will be made happy by this sort of intervention is the veterinary companies bank balance .
to advise you to put a horse with a damaged pedal bone through a denerving procedure and a KS op , well good manners prevents me saying what I think.
you need to be be patient and kind to him , he probably has no training in pole work and has no idea what you want .
You need a really good Acpat physio to give you heavy duty help but I hesitate to advise you to send any more money .

 

[Carrottom]

I had an ex racer who never got the hang of poles and always panicked a bit if she touched one. I would speak to your vet about the problem and ask if there are alternative exercises.

 

[Red-1]

Looking at the stance of your horse, and provided he is now sound, I would commence walking out in hand. I would build it up so you are walking out an hour daily, in hand, starting on the flat and then introducing hills. I would do it now, while it is warm and the horse will be able to relax. The walking would be active, not slouching along.

I would also be wary of the grass crack being fixed with the brace at the end of November, yet he was sound? If the staple was deep into the foot, I would have expected him to be lame straight away or, if it was a bind rather than a prick, I would have expected lameness to come on quite quickly rather than be sound until February. It seems, to me, unusual for him to have been sound for 3 months when his pedal bone was crumbling away.