Ground work my horse tries to nip me!

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Ziggy10

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So I don’t ride but do a lot of ground work with my wife’s relative new horse, one month in. He is generally nice to be around but when I am doing ground handling he is quite often trying to nip me. I don’t understand why but I ‘feel’ he is irritated with me. He is 12, I generally do walking over poles, asking him to go back and various other exercises which we think he hasn’t done before. No lunging at the mo as the physio recommend straight stuff for a while.
So my question is why does he nip and what can I do about it?! Thanks.
 
Are you holding him too close to his head?

Regarding making him go backwards, I think it would be better to concentrate on going forwards. Forget about any backwards stuff for the time being.

Are you micromanaging him?
 
Lois Lame said:
Are you holding him too close to his head?

Regarding making him go backwards, I think it would be better to concentrate on going forwards. Forget about any backwards stuff for the time being.

Are you micromanaging him?
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Yes I tend to be close to stop him trying to nip! He also tend to walk into me rather than maintain distance.
 
I think looking for someone to come out to give you a hand, even for one session, sounds like it would be invaluable. They can teach you the basics of what to look for/enforce with your horse to ensure you are both set up for success.
I would imagine if he is walking all over you that he isn't particularly paying any attention to you at all and sees himself as the dominant one in the partnership which is why he feels justified in nipping you when he's asked to do something he doesn't want to do, exactly as the top horse would to a lower tier horse in the field.
You need to nip both behaviours in the bud, and probably other behaviours you haven't mentioned I would imagine, but you need to do it correctly, with the appropriate 'volume' and with very good timing. Groundwork people around me generally charge £40 or so a visit, so even if you can only afford one it shouldn't break the bank too much
 
Why does the physio think the horse can only do straight stuff? I presume the horse is physically compromised?

Both of the exercises you mention are quite physical.

Backing up makes the horse use their hind end far more than walking a circle would do. Poles also make the horse high step.

Could the exercises simply be painful for the horse? Did the physio do the exercises with the horse themselves before signing off for you to do them?

However, some horses simply don't see the point in ground work. My big horse is naturally placid. You can fair see that he'll do pretty much whatever you would like him to do, if only you would decide what that is. Like, do you want me standing over here, or over there? I'm happy to do either but for goodness' sake, make your mind up!
 
Red-1 said:
However, some horses simply don't see the point in ground work. My big horse is naturally placid. You can fair see that he'll do pretty much whatever you would like him to do, if only you would decide what that is. Like, do you want me standing over here, or over there? I'm happy to do either but for goodness' sake, make your mind up!
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This was my first thought, frustration.

If the horse isn't focusing on it actually being work and just following you around they get bored. Rewarding them properly (praise, scratches, rest periods) is important, so they stay engaged. Especially if they find the exercises hard, which is sounds like this horse is. Nipping and being mouthy is communication!

We do a lot of in hand poles and physio exercises (not as often as I should rn tbh, but historically!) and you can do a lot with it even in straight lines. Proper walk halt transitions, teaching a proper square halt, increasing/decreasing tempo and stride in the walk, carrying themselves purposefully over poles and not just slopping over them, pausing in the middle of a line of poles before continuing. You can create a lot of engagement and responsiveness if you give the horse a proper "well done" when they get it right.

I would ignore the nipping and teach and reward him for what he should be doing instead. If he continues to show signs of being frustrated or irritable you might be asking him to do too much for his current physical abilities at the moment.
 
I was an elderly beginner and ground work was central to my learning to ride.
This is not fancy stuff. All horses need to learn to lead. In my second year of learning, our yard was 10 minutes walk from the arena. Since we were about to have a ridden lesson, I led the horse in a bridle with one hand firmly under her chin. My other hand carried a long dressage whip to control the hind quarters, to prevent them swinging out into the road.
However most ground work was done with the horse in a knotted rope halter. Please note, this was not a lassoo type pressure halter that tightens if the horse pulls away. The rope halter I use has fixed knots and the touch of a firm knot on the face of the horse is enough to deliver a cue.
The first lesson, and vital if the horse is nipping you, is to establish that the horse must keep out of your space. You are permitted to enter his space, but he must not invade yours.
If the horse turned its head towards me, I simply raised the hand holding the lead rope. Not gently to invite contact but quite abruptly, to correct the horse.

It is correct that some horses dont have a clue about groundwork because presumably they have never done it. When I decided to take my share hack into the school for a session, I found that she had no idea about leading and halting in walk. Staff tend to be in a hurry and the idea of walking serpentines down the school baffled her until I insisted. But she is no fool and after a 30 munte session she was weaving in and out of poles and heading into a box and then backing out.
The purpose of this was to remind her from the ground that I was the person in charge and it gave me the confidence to hack her again solo the following week.
 
Lois Lame said:
Are you holding him too close to his head?

Regarding making him go backwards, I think it would be better to concentrate on going forwards. Forget about any backwards stuff for the time being.

Are you micromanaging him?
Click to expand...
Hi, I dont think so he is generally well behaved and only seems to do this in the school. We were advised by our horse physio that to stick to straight line stuff as pelvis is slightly dropped on side. I am going to get an experience trainer in for a couple of sessions!
 
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AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
I think looking for someone to come out to give you a hand, even for one session, sounds like it would be invaluable. They can teach you the basics of what to look for/enforce with your horse to ensure you are both set up for success.
I would imagine if he is walking all over you that he isn't particularly paying any attention to you at all and sees himself as the dominant one in the partnership which is why he feels justified in nipping you when he's asked to do something he doesn't want to do, exactly as the top horse would to a lower tier horse in the field.
You need to nip both behaviours in the bud, and probably other behaviours you haven't mentioned I would imagine, but you need to do it correctly, with the appropriate 'volume' and with very good timing. Groundwork people around me generally charge £40 or so a visit, so even if you can only afford one it shouldn't break the bank too much
Click to expand...
Yes I did have a trainer out for our previous horse who we sadly lost a year ago, so I will contact her and see where we go. He has a slightly dropped hip so were advise to do straight on stuff so he picks his feet up which he does nicely, we dont think he is any pain. He gets lots of praise when he gets things right and in one session happily followed me over poles hands free.
 
Red-1 said:
Why does the physio think the horse can only do straight stuff? I presume the horse is physically compromised?

Both of the exercises you mention are quite physical.

Backing up makes the horse use their hind end far more than walking a circle would do. Poles also make the horse high step.

Could the exercises simply be painful for the horse? Did the physio do the exercises with the horse themselves before signing off for you to do them?

However, some horses simply don't see the point in ground work. My big horse is naturally placid. You can fair see that he'll do pretty much whatever you would like him to do, if only you would decide what that is. Like, do you want me standing over here, or over there? I'm happy to do either but for goodness' sake, make your mind up!
Click to expand...
Yes our horse physio note he has a slightly dropped pelvis and to do straightforward stuff forward and backward to help his back end. He does this nicely over close poles and slightly raised ones and has followed be off lead over poles without issues. We dont think he is any pain but is more reluctant to go backwards over poles but goes back nicely with very little pressure, gets lots of praise appropriately! I am going to get an expert in, its not my first gig but I acknowledge i need some help here as he is so new to us!
 
There is some really good guidance on this in the FB group I recommend for groundwork, https://www.facebook.com/groups/185219844520695. The featured posts have the exercise/guidance in them but the group is great and there is a free ebook too. Backing up over poles is seriously full on, my instinct is it may be too much too soon, very common with all sorts of rehab plans that jump into strengthening through extra loading rather than correcting movement patterns as a priority.

It's also impossible to rule out pain, but dysfunctional movement with no apparent pain can still cause discomfort and unhappiness, a vulnerability that becomes defensiveness or worse.
 
What is his demeanour when he nips? Does he appear frustrated or playful? The latter may simply be needing boundaries more clearly set. The former, as others have said, could be an indication he is not comfortable with what’s being asked.
 
Ziggy10 said:
Thanks for all the replies! I am getting an experienced trainer in, I love him dearly already, just not his teeth!
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Best of luck, let us know how you get on! I've found that for problems like this getting eyes on the ground (literally, ha) is invaluable - hopefully your trainer will spot immediately what's going on.
 
Nocturnal said:
What is his demeanour when he nips? Does he appear frustrated or playful? The latter may simply be needing boundaries more clearly set. The former, as others have said, could be an indication he is not comfortable with what’s being asked.
Click to expand...
Generally he is relaxed, head down, lot of licking and chewing....
 
sbloom said:
There is some really good guidance on this in the FB group I recommend for groundwork, https://www.facebook.com/groups/185219844520695. The featured posts have the exercise/guidance in them but the group is great and there is a free ebook too. Backing up over poles is seriously full on, my instinct is it may be too much too soon, very common with all sorts of rehab plans that jump into strengthening through extra loading rather than correcting movement patterns as a priority.

It's also impossible to rule out pain, but dysfunctional movement with no apparent pain can still cause discomfort and unhappiness, a vulnerability that becomes defensiveness or worse.
Click to expand...
Thanks I have requested to join!
 
Been away and we have had him shod by a very knowledgeable farrier and seen by a physio. Any yes he has a pelvis issue, it’s not quite straight and he is less happy going down hill. So I suspect the nibbling was discomfort!
So we have been recommended no riding for 3 weeks and just straight pole work, stepping over and no more. Interestingly the previous owner said she had him shod every 5-6 weeks because we suspect he was sensitive on his back end. However, …..I looked at his vet record and there were times over many months when there were farrier visits( each with sedation) averaging about 3 weeks!! Not sure why, jury is Luton that. There also was a period where the previous owner tried to leave him unshod which didn’t end well…..watch this space!
 
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