Ground work, strong horse

[Ridethemonkey]

I've recently bought an ex-racer. He had some retraining/schooling for a couple of months, and I was made aware he could still be a little pushy on the ground before I got him. I used to have a TB and used a dually on him which did the trick and improved his manners massively. However when I've tried using one on this horse, he gets very angry, kicking out to the front when pressure is applied, and sometimes lowering his head and trying "kick if off" with his feet. It escalates to the point he gets himself in a proper tiz, sweaty/foamy and becomes even harder to handle. He's never reared, bucked, kicked out behind and I don't want to get him so stressed to the point that he does try. Am I doing the right thing to continue with the dually? I have started making him back up when he is pushy, which seems to work.

 

[be positive]

I think we need a bit more info, in what situations is he pushy and how is he with his manners, behaviour in general?
Most racehorses are relatively compliant with daily life, they can be sharp, reactive but their underlying manners are usually excellent because yard staff do not have time to be messing about with bad mannered horses on the ground and expect a certain level from the start so things such as backing up when asked is normal and not something they need to learn once retired, all the ones I have known, both in and out of training, have been lovely to deal with on the ground just having the odd moment when they forget themselves but that tends to be just high spirits or frustration if they are not active enough.

When using a dually timing is everything, in fact whatever you are doing it is, which is why my first thought was to find out the context.

 

[LEC]

I hate Duallys - its very hard to release the pressure and I don't think they are a very good piece of kit. I prefer a rope halter unless what you are trying to do is lower the head/adjust behaviour and then I use a piece of kit I made having stolen the idea from Tarr Steps on here which is what I use for loading over the rope halter.

The fact your horse is getting so upset tells me he is really confused and doesn't understand and is becoming frustrated hence the front legs.

I would look at Warwick Schiller videos online as will give you a much better starting point. It sounds like you need more skills in this area rather than having a vague idea of what outcome you want.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

I'd say if he is getting into that kind of state then a big fat NO, stop what you are doing. I really enjoy ground work using a rope halter and 12ft line (I'm not a parelli nut) and using a mixture of the TRT method and a local guy who does natural horsemanship based on similar. If you are holding on for dear life you need to re think how you are handing him and i'd work with him rather than fight him, its a much nicer place to be in and you can still be totally in charge.
Also a big fan of Warwick Schiller videos on youtube.

 

[Cob Life]

I'd say if he is getting into that kind of state then a big fat NO, stop what you are doing. I really enjoy ground work using a rope halter and 12ft line (I'm not a parelli nut) and using a mixture of the TRT method and a local guy who does natural horsemanship based on similar. If you are holding on for dear life you need to re think how you are handing him and i'd work with him rather than fight him, its a much nicer place to be in and you can still be totally in charge.
Also a big fan of Warwick Schiller videos on youtube.

agree with this, Miri Hackett has videos showing the TRT groundwork patterns on her patreon. Really helped with out reactive mare and has got her more relaxed in general as well as better mannered

 

[AmyMay]

What are you trying to achieve?

I also hate dually’s.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have no idea what a dually would achieve in the retraining of a racehorse .
IMV it’s unacceptable to continue with any form of kit when the horse is yelling that it hates it .
what’s the issue with doing ground work in a bridle at the least the horse will understand that .
I like the micklem bridle for ground work the one with the ring on the nose .
OP you need to be careful don’t get on the wrong side of a TB .

 

[Pinkvboots]

I hate Duallys - its very hard to release the pressure and I don't think they are a very good piece of kit. I prefer a rope halter unless what you are trying to do is lower the head/adjust behaviour and then I use a piece of kit I made having stolen the idea from Tarr Steps on here which is what I use for loading over the rope halter.

The fact your horse is getting so upset tells me he is really confused and doesn't understand and is becoming frustrated hence the front legs.

I would look at Warwick Schiller videos online as will give you a much better starting point. It sounds like you need more skills in this area rather than having a vague idea of what outcome you want.

I hate dually as well and I think a lot of horses take offence to them and I personally don't see the point if them, most rude horses I have dealt with respond to just a bridle my lunge line and good old discipline, I just like the good old fashioned way of get out of my space and move when I say and stop when I say, I train my horses in a sort of liberty way so when I stop they stop but you have to get that focus and respect and it's not with a dually or force.

 

[Lyle]

I think the thing to remember with groundwork, is it's aim is to TEACH the horse HOW to respond to pressures and situations. Simply putting a firmer piece of kit on, when a horse has no clue of what you are asking, or what's expected of him, will not help. There are lots of wonderful groundwork/horsemanship trainers who put a lot of information online i.e TRT method, Warwick Schiller, Clinton Anderson etc) Each method is slightly different in their presentation, yet all aim to teach the horse how to think and respond, not just react. I really enjoy groundwork, I use a stiff- 4 knot rope halter and a 14ft line, and a stick and string. Find a method you like, and start at the very beginning. Often to fix a problem (such as pushy, hard to lead, poor tying up) you need to go right back and earn the respect and trust of the horse first. Once that's achieved, the teaching can begin.

 

[doodle]

On the other hand I used a dually with my ex racer which great results. Generally after initially using it for leading I only used it for loading as he decided to say no by going up. I would put it on, load, and then change to the normal headcollor to travel. It got to the point I had rope on the normal ring and if I didn’t put it on he would revert to rearing.