Groundwork/straightness training for dummies

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emfen1305

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I'm not sure if this is right place for this, poorly pony still got another 3 weeks of no ridden work but wanted to do something to keep us both sane and no reason why he can't do some walk work. I'd like to try some groundwork and straightness training but struggling with where to get started! I've looked online and watched some videos but I am unsure on how/if I'll know whether he's understanding what I am asking (if that makes sense?) I'd quite like to get him bending and doing some exercises in walk but want to know I am doing it properly. Unfortunately can't afford an instructor to specifically help me on this so would be great to get some resources and good hints and tips..

He is quite clever and picks up little tricks quite easily as he is so treat orientated so I just want to make sure he doesn't lure me into a false sense of security when I am trying things. I realise I sound like a total newbie but I am so any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
atlantis said:
There is a free ebook for ST

http://straightnesstraining.com/free-ebook/
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Thanks :) I read it but still feel a bit unsure, it feels like you need to have some basic knowledge and this is the next step but maybe I am just over thinking it. He wants to please so I am sure he will pick up what I ask quickly but just worried about asking him wrong or thinking that he's got it when he hasn't really..
 
I've been doing this but I went to watch a couple of clinics locally which really helped. I don't have my own transport anymore so difficult to actually get the horse there. Have you joined the Facebook group?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StraightnessTrainingUK/

I've just been giving it a go I know what you mean when you're unsure about whether you're doing it correctly but have a go anyway.

I worked on the very basics such as standing square, forward and down and taking the weight back and only about 20 minutes at a time and it really helps to have the proper in-hand cavesson. I'm hoping a friend who is really into it is going to come and help me this weekend.
 
Thanks both! I've joined the group and i'll look for some clinics. I'll just start having a go and maybe I can ask questions when I come up against something!
 
Just an update - we did our first session tonight, only 15 mins as another livery had an emergency screw in hoof situation that I needed to help with but he mastered standing square and the forward down really quickly, with the standing square I could take all direct pressure off and only had to move my hand towards him in the end so hopefully a good sign!

The only question I had was while the treats definitely help as an incentive to get him to do what I ask, he gets quite distracted by trying to look for them in my hands and then when I ask him for what i want he will do it as fast as possible so he is rewarded - did anybody else have this? I did try towards the end only rewarding once he had completed everything that I asked rather than after every movement so maybe that's the answer!
 
Well done - small steps :)

I didn't use treats at all as although I do treat normally it would definitely be too distracting and he'd be constantly searching my pockets and bowing! I just use the pressure - release technique. So pressure on the cavesson then release when any tiny move in the direction you want is given. This worked best with the in-hand cavesson.

I initially used a long 120cm garden cane to tap him into the position I needed as stiffer and longer than a normal schooling whip and used it to ask him to take the weight back. Once the weight is back then ask for the stretch forward whilst using the stick to stop him stepping forward and bringing his weight forward, the weight should remain back as the point is to get the horse to carry his weight more evenly and not on his forehand.

Once you've got that then you can do the lateral bending. Always start at the basics every time.
 
I don't use treats, they just don't work for some (I had this discussion with Roz) anything too food orientated it's pointless so just a scratch and a good boy here/release of pressure.
 
Most classical trainers do "in-hand work" which is a non-branded version of ST.

Sometimes people don't advertise this as a skill, perhaps they ought to....
 
They should, I had a nightmare finding someone when I first wanted to get into it and the chap I then used was travelling across the country monthly (I knew of him through someone else). Claire lilley wasn't a million miles from me but far enough away not to be that easy. I ended up doing the ST as someone was doing clinics 20 mins away from me that I could go and watch. I'd done a bit with ready trained horses at classical places before but didn't find that translated that much to doing it with something new to it so watching other also 'new to its' was really helpful.
 
Great post OP.

I have the Cobs Can workbook which focuses on a lot of groundwork before riding which I would recommend.

I have been trying to get some inspiration of things to do with my mare during Winter as I only have a field to ride in which obviously is too wet and boggy so can only really hack on a weekend. I have been teaching her basics such as flexions, backing up and moving away but want to do something a bit more fun to keep her mind occupied during the long winter slog. She is only 4 so any groundwork is a bonus. My mare sounds like your horse that she is very treat orientated which is great for some things but makes them a bit pushy when you do groundwork. I have stopped giving my mare treats during work but give her a small amount once we have finished.
 
tallyho! said:
Most classical trainers do "in-hand work" which is a non-branded version of ST.

Sometimes people don't advertise this as a skill, perhaps they ought to....
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Yes but they don't and they're not that accessible either because of location or the way they teach. This is very accessible and makes sense to me. It's not expensive either unless you sign up for the more in depth courses.
 
Sussexbythesea said:
Yes but they don't and they're not that accessible either because of location or the way they teach. This is very accessible and makes sense to me. It's not expensive either unless you sign up for the more in depth courses.
Click to expand...

the way they teach I think is quite important. My experience was that they 'just knew' how to do it, and had amazing feel but that meant that they weren't necessarily very good at breaking it down for other people who hadn't had the background they had had and didn't have such a great feel. I'm not v. keen on the marketing side of ST or the pattern it follows but it gave me access to someone who while being very good themselves also had the capacity to get across what they were doing.
 
ester said:
the way they teach I think is quite important. My experience was that they 'just knew' how to do it, and had amazing feel but that meant that they weren't necessarily very good at breaking it down for other people who hadn't had the background they had had and didn't have such a great feel. I'm not v. keen on the marketing side of ST or the pattern it follows but it gave me access to someone who while being very good themselves also had the capacity to get across what they were doing.
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I know what you mean I get turned off anything that starts to get a bit 'cult' like, Parelli in particular.

I started because I thought it would be interesting and it was something I could do with my veteran that wasn't at least at the lower levels too demanding as long as I am careful not to over do it. I've been to two Roz Richmond clinics to watch which were very interesting.
 
I don't think classical is cult-like - on the contrary, it tries to be the exact opposite. I always find it funny when people try and pigeonhole classical like it's something thats just emerged out of the last shower when it's the very foundation of everything we do (even though it is regularly perverted).

It's a shame you haven't had access to good classical people who are able to impart in-hand work from the basics to more advanced and I agree that ST does make it more accessible and I really think it's a good thing. I just wish it didn't try to separate itself from the classical roots it came from because that would be a shame.
 
tallyho! said:
I don't think classical is cult-like - on the contrary, it tries to be the exact opposite. I always find it funny when people try and pigeonhole classical like it's something thats just emerged out of the last shower when it's the very foundation of everything we do (even though it is regularly perverted).
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yes, well maybe some of the foremost proponents of it in the UK like to make it cult-like or behave in such a way that it puts people off. I also find it funny when people think its more recent than NH though (just not funny ha ha..)
 
Sussexbythesea said:
Well done - small steps :)

I didn't use treats at all as although I do treat normally it would definitely be too distracting and he'd be constantly searching my pockets and bowing! I just use the pressure - release technique. So pressure on the cavesson then release when any tiny move in the direction you want is given. This worked best with the in-hand cavesson.

I initially used a long 120cm garden cane to tap him into the position I needed as stiffer and longer than a normal schooling whip and used it to ask him to take the weight back. Once the weight is back then ask for the stretch forward whilst using the stick to stop him stepping forward and bringing his weight forward, the weight should remain back as the point is to get the horse to carry his weight more evenly and not on his forehand.

Once you've got that then you can do the lateral bending. Always start at the basics every time.
Click to expand...

Ah OK that's really interesting, I did feel like in the end he was he just lowering his head with no real shift in weight so the garden cane idea is interesting, I will try that tonight to make sure he is really stretching, he should get that quite quickly because I've taught him to stretch as forward as he can as part of his carrot stretches so just need to encourage him to do that with the pressure and move further down. When doing the lateral bending, is the idea that their head stays in the forward and down position consistently? If they raise their head, would you stop and reset (forward down, slight bend then move off) or just encourage the bend again whilst walking using pressure?

I will ditch the treats and just use the release and scratches to reward! Thanks for the advice!
 
Beth206 said:
Great post OP.

I have the Cobs Can workbook which focuses on a lot of groundwork before riding which I would recommend.

I have been trying to get some inspiration of things to do with my mare during Winter as I only have a field to ride in which obviously is too wet and boggy so can only really hack on a weekend. I have been teaching her basics such as flexions, backing up and moving away but want to do something a bit more fun to keep her mind occupied during the long winter slog. She is only 4 so any groundwork is a bonus. My mare sounds like your horse that she is very treat orientated which is great for some things but makes them a bit pushy when you do groundwork. I have stopped giving my mare treats during work but give her a small amount once we have finished.
Click to expand...

Ooh I'll definitely be looking into that! My cob is definitely a cob than can but needs convincing haha! I like the idea of groundwork, I think it's fun and Toby really seems to enjoy anything challenging like that, it's quite endearing to see him trying to second guess what I want him to do next!

I think based on what you and others have said i'll definitely stopping the treats though and just give him lots of praise and handful at the end :)
 
Thanks all for your help :) I do agree it is such a shame that people have these views on NH, ST and other "faddy" (not my words or opinion!) training methods. A couple of people were watching last night and asking questions which was quite nice. Horses for courses i suppose!
 
tallyho! said:
I don't think classical is cult-like - on the contrary, it tries to be the exact opposite. I always find it funny when people try and pigeonhole classical like it's something thats just emerged out of the last shower when it's the very foundation of everything we do (even though it is regularly perverted).

It's a shame you haven't had access to good classical people who are able to impart in-hand work from the basics to more advanced and I agree that ST does make it more accessible and I really think it's a good thing. I just wish it didn't try to separate itself from the classical roots it came from because that would be a shame.
Click to expand...

I think the cult-like was in response to my dislike of the way ST is marketed... which is actually somewhat similar levels wise etc to the way parelli is/was. Though to a degree I agree with what MoC says about some of the people that 'do classical' in this country

I am not aware of them trying to separate from the classical roots though?

It's tools in the box for me, that I will be using again in future.
 
tallyho! said:
I don't think classical is cult-like - on the contrary, it tries to be the exact opposite. I always find it funny when people try and pigeonhole classical like it's something thats just emerged out of the last shower when it's the very foundation of everything we do (even though it is regularly perverted).

It's a shame you haven't had access to good classical people who are able to impart in-hand work from the basics to more advanced and I agree that ST does make it more accessible and I really think it's a good thing. I just wish it didn't try to separate itself from the classical roots it came from because that would be a shame.
Click to expand...

Sorry I didn't mean classical I meant the ST marketing which seems to be increasing. I don't think it tries to separate itself from classical routes though.

I have had several classically trained instructors including one that trained with Nuno Olivera, TTT instructors and have also delved into some Phillipe Karl trainers. None have offered in-hand training although they may have if asked. But I've not seen any offer lots of online tutorials, free booklets, local clinics, Q&A sessions and support groups.
 
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