Gruesome query

Clodagh

Clodagh

Playing chess with pigeons
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I am helping a friend out next week by having her two horses here to be PTS. I will be holding them, she has booked in a well known and experienced person to do it. They are being shot. My two will be out in the field, her two will go in my stables until the man arrives.
They are both a bit high pressure, and will not be in the stable on their own without going mad. I thought about taking the first one round the back of the stable to do it but then the second one will freak out. Equally I'm assuming second one will freak out if first one is done in front of him/her?
I though maybe if she boght her pony up as well (who isn't for the chop) he could just be there and then I could run him home later. If he goes ballistic he is nly 13.2, both horses are 17.2.
They cannot be done at her yard for lots of complicated reasons so coming to mine is how we will do it, I am only querying the management of the timing.
Thank you.
 
Yes if you can stable the pony i would bring him as a calming influence for second. Can i say you are a good friend to be there at a time like this. Not a nice time for you both x
 
I think in your shoes, I would bring the pony along. It is amazing the difference a calming influence can have. When we had one PTS on our yard a while back, all the horses "knew" even though it was done out of sight. A few of the horses on the yard are the calm, in control type, and things didn't get hysterical.
 
Bring the pony, also ask if the vet can give you a tube of sedaline for each. Needs to be given about 45 mins before & ought to help in keeping things calm (tho doesn't work on all)

Can you rope in another friend - then possible to handgraze both till chap arrives?
 
Does the chap doing the shooting know the situation and have you taken his advice? He's the one who's got to make sure this is done right for the horses - and for your friend - and he may well have strong ideas about what is most suitable, especially with big horses in unfamiliar surroundings.
 
The slaughter man will not want you anywhere near the horse as you are effectively in front of the gun. You are making too many problems for yourself.

Far easier to sedate by IV, do your goodbyes and hand the rope to your man, walk away and don't look back.
 
AdorableAlice said:
The slaughter man will not want you anywhere near the horse as you are effectively in front of the gun. You are making too many problems for yourself.

Far easier to sedate by IV, do your goodbyes and hand the rope to your man, walk away and don't look back.
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Agree with this, the horses should both be sedated, if you dont want the vet there to do iv's, domosedan will probably do but personally id need to stay with the horses that are being shot if they were mine
 
Having just been through this with 1 horse, i had him stabled and had the others stabled ( safest for him )

we shut the top doors to the remaining horses, horse himself was taking around 10 metres away from the stable block and done there. All the horses whinnied afterwards but only 1 was wound up afterwards.

gun was quieter than i expected.

we have windows in the back of the stables too so the horses could all see out the other side.
 
mary christmas said:
Agree with this, the horses should both be sedated, if you dont want the vet there to do iv's, domosedan will probably do but personally id need to stay with the horses that are being shot if they were mine
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I have yet to see or know a slaughter man who will let you hold the horse, it is too dangerous. The last non sedated horse I dealt with was given a bucket of food, I was told to stand behind the gun and the horse was dropped.
 
AdorableAlice said:
I have yet to see or know a slaughter man who will let you hold the horse, it is too dangerous. The last non sedated horse I dealt with was given a bucket of food, I was told to stand behind the gun and the horse was dropped.
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That's my experience.


I would advise against making any decisions until and unless you have taken the advice of the guy who's doing the deed.
 
Yes i know, sorry, what i mean is i need to stay with them while its being done, not holding, when sedated theyre probably none the wiser who's with them, but for me i need to see it through to the end
 
Sorry for no reply, been busy.
I don't know that they are being sedated, although they may be, one in particular is very headshy so I should think it will be hard without it. My husband will be here, he has always been with mine when they are done, I don't mind so much being with other peoples. I will of course completely take the advice of the man doing it, I am just trying our scenarios in my head and wondering if I am making it too complicated. My OH is not horsey but will hold a quiet one if it is necessary. The bucket of food idea might well work.
 
Agree with those who say get the advice from the chap doing the job, but I would also make sure that there is another horse left in with the one who is to be second, unless the sedation route is taken and the knackerman intends to do them literaly one immediately after the other.
 
You won't be able to hold either horse. You need to discuss the logistics with the knackerman. One horse will need to he shot andthen loaded, and then the second one.
 
I agree tht the best person to ask is the fella who's doing the job. I wouldn't bother with sedation - that sounds like a possible complication too far, imho. I've had several horses shot, they have all been calm, peaceful occasions, the horses have gone with a mouthful of feed, with not hint of worry and no sedation.
One mare had a stroke in the stable overnight and was alive but unconscious, because of the set-up of the stables we couldn't get her best friend of 20 yrs out before the Hunt came. The best friend could see and hear exactly what went on (she had another long-standing friend at the other side of her). She even had to watch the winching onto the van, which is something I refuse to do myself. There was no trauma at all, as soon as the Hunt had gone, we put those left out to graze and no-on would have known that it wasn't a normal day.
 
I have never had one sedated either, as all of mine have gone to the kennels. As these aren't mine I will go with the owners (and knackermans!) wishes.
Thank you for the offer, Twiggy, I will certainly bear that in mind.
 
AdorableAlice said:
The slaughter man will not want you anywhere near the horse as you are effectively in front of the gun. You are making too many problems for yourself.

Far easier to sedate by IV, do your goodbyes and hand the rope to your man, walk away and don't look back.
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This what I would do get the vet there to sedate IV , if thats not possible give each a hefty dose of sedaline or similar .
 
Goldenstar said:
This what I would do get the vet there to sedate IV , if thats not possible give each a hefty dose of sedaline or similar .
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This^^^^
The OP has stated that these are stressy horses, who will be out of their usual environment. Even a top knackerman will find dealing with them a severe challenge if they are not sedated first.
 
I'd sedate too for safeties sake especially if they are away from home and stressy types, the last thing you want is for the horse to flinch at the last or to work itself up into such a flap that sedation won't then work if there's no option but to use it.
 
OP, I was in your exact situation this time last year, the only difference being that it was done on the yard the horses were kept on anyway. They were borderline feral big 16.3hh horses that could not be out of sight of each other without seriously dangerous behaviour. The owner would not have coped being there bless him, so myself and the YO dealt with it. We too had the hunt out to shoot and not only is the shooter likely to not want you near, they probably won't want to be watched either. I have been at many of these and most ask for you to move away and out of sight. Listen to the person you have coming and respect their personal wishes.

As for the horses, we sedated. Each horse was given a full syringe of sedalin when the hunt man arrived and he got his trailer in place and got himself prepared while we waited for it to take effect. We had the vet on standby to come and give IV sedative if the sedalin didn't work. All of this was discussed with both the hunt and the vet beforehand. They had both been given sedalin when we tried to load them and it worked initially but one of them fought it AND IV sedatives when trying to load. Because of this knowledge, we started with sedalin and had that horse, the more panicky and dangerous of the two shot first. YO and I stood at the stable of the other horse holding a mat over the top of the door as there was no top door to close and we didn't do that to stop him seeing anything, we did it to keep the stable dark and keep him calm, which worked a treat. We knew from experience that if one of them started panicking, they both would and no other horse on the yard had any calming effect on them. They were pretty much feral and had only ever really known eachother, when they were in a heightened state, they wouldn't even realise there was another horse on the yard if came and bit them in the face. All it would have served to do in our situation is cause distress to another horse.

The sedalin worked, horses could still walk out to where the trailer was and both calmly enjoyed their big final bucket of food and knew nothing of it.

You are a great friend to offer this assistance and my hat's off to you for that. It is not easy, but I understand when it is necessary and it is something that we be a massive help to your friend.

Your friend and possibly you know these particular horses, so discuss what they are like with the person doing the deed and involve them and if deemed necessary, the vet in the planning. That way, you will all know what is happening and you will all be able to cope better on the day and more importantly, it will make it better for the horses.

There's no one rule that fits all and when you are having two done it brings added difficulties. When you have two done who are so strongly bonded and dangerous when apart, you have the added safety concerns to take into consideration.

_GG_ xx
 
AdorableAlice said:
The slaughter man will not want you anywhere near the horse as you are effectively in front of the gun. You are making too many problems for yourself.

Far easier to sedate by IV, do your goodbyes and hand the rope to your man, walk away and don't look back.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.
 
Agree don't have them done in a stable, you then struggle to get them out. I've only ever had horses destroyed by lethal injection or captive bolt gun, so have been able to hold. I did have to put down two horses earlier this year, best friends, we went with injection as we knew second horse would go mad. She was a wobbler - came down on me when trying to rear. Thankfully had a few hands to get me out whilst she got PTS. Very traumatic. I would sedate both if you can beforehand (one was emergency PTS of ours, hence quickly done and second followed)
 
Jinglesmells - thank you for that detailed reply, that is a great help.
They are both competition horses, or were, so hopefully coming to mine will not be too exciting. I will speak to the owner to confirm what sedation is planned. Both being so big if they even put their heads up it will be difficult.
My OH has always held my horses to be shot so I didn't realise it wasn't usual.

ETA - I had one PTs in the stable, useless vet and the end of a long drawn out saga, getting her out was a nightmare, especially as it wasn't until the next morning. Never again.
 
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I'd be quite concerned about the possibility of sedation, although obviously you will need to go with the wishes of the owner, knackerman and vet, if involved.
I've had a mare routinely sedated with Sedalin for having her feet trimmed and on occasion she fought it. We just used to stop the process if she became difficult, for every-one's safety. Recently we've had a youngster IV sedated and still had to twitch her for the vet to be able to continue with the treatment (feet again). She was dreadfully wobbly and still fighting. IME a bucket of very tasty sweet feed keeps their heads down.
 
Well it was done today. I can recommend 'Resting Pets' the animal crematorium in Essex. The man was very efficient and good. They came on the lorry and were left on it until time. I unloaded one at a time and took them to the grass in front of the lorry. The feisty headshy one was first and she was fine with a bucket of food. I did hold her while he did it. I had enough after her and my lovely husband held the second one. It was very slick, they were both fairly calm. There was no sedation, nor IMO, was it needed. I wouldn't like to do it very often!
 
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