Grumble at NFU insurance :-(

Spyda

Spyda

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And here's been me in the past, recommending NFU highly. Not happy with them this morning though....

I've a well-bred homebred 4 year old WB gelding, just being backed. Current insurance (with PetPlan) is about to expire (was their Grass Keep cover) and I decided to go back to NFU for a quote, now that he's starting work.

I phoned for a quote today and said I'd like to insure him for £4500 (which is more than reasonable I think for a well bred, registered, well put together, schooling nicely, nicely mannered, 16.2 gelding), only to be told that because he's 'home bred' I can only ever insure him for double his original stud fee.

WHAT!?????? So unless I have him 'professionally valued' apparently (and where the heck do you get that done???) I'm limited to maximum insurance value of £1200 for him. Cripes.... how would I be expected to find a match to my present boy if something terrible were to happen, for the miserly sum of £1200????

Duh? I was told this back along and whilst he was a foal and yearling accepted this as being reasonable enough. But keeping to the same policy once a horse is mature and working? Nah, don't think that continues to work, does it?

One word -

R I D I C U L O U S

And they've lost my vote from now on.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
I had the same issue with them.

Transpires that all they need is a letter from vet, BHS qualified instructor or similar to confirm his value.

Why they can't just say that heaven alone knows!
 
They told me that a professional valuation could come from someone like your instructor.

As long as they have proven qualifications then it will be acceptable, or even get your vet to do it.
A small charge from your vets could work out for the better in the long run.
 
wipeout said:
So what would happen if you sold him and bought him back?!
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Ahhh... well that would be okay I assume - as I'd have a bill of sale stating a purchase price to wave at them. Daft isn't it :mad:

I'll call my vet in a mo and ask how much he'd charge to write me a valuation letter.... more expense though, isn't it. :(

Meanwhile, could anyone recommend any other 'good' insurers I could try for a quote. I should shop around anyway. KBIS? Stoneaways? Stay with PetPlan?
 
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But why would they let anyone insure 'anything' for an arbitary value? They need someone *eg instructor, vet * to tell them the horse is actually worth that much. Your value of yoru horse may not be accurate as you stand to benefit directly by any future injury regarding the value of payout.
And sorry but the market is rubbish, many 4yr 16.2's arent selling for remotely 4500...
 
AM equine trust is good, and cheaper than the bigger ones but with the same amount of cover and no issues paying out, friendly on the phone too
 
SusieT said:
But why would they let anyone insure 'anything' for an arbitary value? They need someone *eg instructor, vet * to tell them the horse is actually worth that much. Your value of yoru horse may not be accurate as you stand to benefit directly by any future injury regarding the value of payout.
And sorry but the market is rubbish, many 4yr 16.2's arent selling for remotely 4500...
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I wish to insure my gelding for an amount that would replace him for similar should I need to replace him. Otherwise, like you say - simply insure for an LOW arbitary value - simply to get the vet fee cover.

I don't think I'll be able to find a match to my gelding for £1200! Not a backed and sound 4 year old, schooling nicely and with Sandro Hit, Weltmeyer, etc... bloodlines. If you can find him/her - do let the rest of us know!

And as for asking my instructor to value him (and I have the Instructor qualification myself, in fact); I really don't think I'd wish to rely on the opinion of many of the AI's out there. No offence to any AI's but it's the most basic TEACHING qualification and I cannot see how it qualifies an individual to value horses!

I've just phoned my vet and been told more or less the same thing. They feel that it isn't their place to value horses since they aren't in the business of knowing the value of particular horses per se. And fair enough, I say. Blimey, it's not as if I want to insure him for £10k or anything!
 
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My vet wouldn't do it either when I wanted to increase the value of my youngster. However a letter from an instructor is sufficient :)

It's crazy but the vets don't want to do it for fear of being sued...
 
Spyda said:
I wish to insure my gelding for an amount that would replace him for similar should I need to replace him. Otherwise, like you say - simply insure for an LOW arbitary value - simply to get the vet fee cover.

I don't think I'll be able to find a match to my gelding for £1200! Not a backed and sound 4 year old, schooling nicely and with Sandro Hit, Weltmeyer, etc... bloodlines. If you can find him/her - do let the rest of us know!
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I can see both points of view, just to be awkward!

When I doubled the insurance on my home bred mare (with KBIS since birth and added on vet cover as well as she was going out on loan) they just needed a justification of the increase. It was the same for Bea too, although I had bought her in, I increased her value because she was the top scoring mare at the gradings so both fully justified.
However, whichever company you use, they will only accept and payout on actual market value whatever you have insured for so it pays to be realistic with your justification and I don't think they would see his breeding as justification, to them he's just a run of the mill four year old being ridden away and who can blame them, they don't know anything to say otherwise? It might be different if you try Pet Plan again as that is who he's been insured with so far, they should accept your valuation justification easier than NFU are doing.
 
Has your horse got any sort of "performance record" as this may well suffice? Even sometimes if you've been to "local" stuff & can confirm placings, etc. Worked with my horses when wanted to increase values with both Shearwater & BEIB (now KBIS I think).
 
I'm happy now, have just insured him for what I wanted with another insurance company. :):):):)

But I must admit to finding it a bit odd that some of you argue that £1200 is a perfectly satisfactory limit to cover the value of a well bred 4 year old.

I beg you to check out the For Sale adverts anywhere... with a budget of £1200 - you'd be looking in the bargain section. And with all due respect, my gelding IS NOT A BARGAIN BASEMENT horse! :p That's my arguement. I don't mind NFU applying an upper limit and think between £3.5k and £5k is the average amongst insurers today - before they start asking for 5 stage vettings and proper valuations. That's reasonable. NFU's limit of £1200 is not IMO.
 
Interesting "valuation" by NFU. It seems to me that the value that NFU will insure for varies from branch to branch. I have a homebred 3 year old who has been insured with NFU from 30 days old. When I was discussing with NFU what value to put on her, their criterion was how much would it cost me to replace her. With her breeding that would have been around £3000+. I decided to go with £2000 and up it as and when necessary (like, when she's backed, for example, although I'm hoping she will go soon). They were quite happy with the £2000 . . . .
Later the same year (2007) I bought a NF weanling straight off the Forest and when I wanted to insure him, NFU said that their minumum value was £1000. Although at the time that was LOADS moe than he was worth, I went with it.
 
Carys said:
Has your horse got any sort of "performance record" as this may well suffice?
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Yes, he has. An Elite Premium for Dressage.... Not that it matters now. I've gone with SEIB and am very happy with the premium quoted too. Glad I was forced to shop around now! :)

Interesting "valuation" by NFU. It seems to me that the value that NFU will insure for varies from branch to branch. I have a homebred 3 year old who has been insured with NFU from 30 days old. When I was discussing with NFU what value to put on her, their criterion was how much would it cost me to replace her. With her breeding that would have been around £3000+. I decided to go with £2000 and up it as and when necessary (like, when she's backed, for example, although I'm hoping she will go soon). They were quite happy with the £2000 . . . .
Later the same year (2007) I bought a NF weanling straight off the Forest and when I wanted to insure him, NFU said that their minumum value was £1000. Although at the time that was LOADS moe than he was worth, I went with it.
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Weird. Maybe it's different if you've had consecutive cover with NFU, then? Must admit, they did ask me this morning if his dam had been insured with them. Which she was in fact - all through the covering and gestation period, and I insured the Stud Fee against loss with them (if the foal was slipped.) and right up until I sold her in 2009. Foalie was also insured with them for the first year of his life, then I discovered PetPlans 'At Grass' cover, which was considerably cheaper at the time.
 
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Spyda, yes, the mare was insured with them too and I'd taken out an extension to cover foaling and the foal up to 30 days so perhaps that's why. I've been with NFU for 16 years now with all my horses so perhaps they also look more kindly on long-term clients!
 
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