Grumbling abscess - how best to get it out?

[catembi]

I very strongly suspect that my new chap has a grumbling abscess, which is currently flaring up. He had thorough xrays of both front feet a couple of months ago which showed nothing iro abscesses - but I am not sure if they show up on xray? About 2 months ago, the front of the hoof wall was very warm (warmth comes & goes) especially near the coronet band. I hot tubbed in sea salt for 3 days & wet poulticed, and turned out with a boot on - no pus. I poulticed the sole & heel. It died down for a bit, but he had a 10 day course of ABs for cellulitis, so that might have interrupted it.

Very definitely lame now & the foot is warm. The farrier is coming tomorrow (horse is barefoot) so I will see what he thinks. I am not sure whether I should start hot tubbing again, & poultice the coronet band as that seems to be where the warmth is, but do I WANT it to burst out there or might it cause permanent damage to how the hoof grows? Common sense would seem to dictate that it would be better for it to burst out in the sole area so that gravity can help it to drain? But I poulticed the sole before & it didn't do any good.

For full disclosure, he failed the vet on lameness in front while he was in his 28 day approval period, I got his feet xrayed, he had slight navicular changes, I thought that they were a red herring & that he was lame for another reason (I thought abscess), he was -ve to hoof testers & once the vet saw slight changes on xray, he was determined that that must be what the lamenness was. I thought he had an abscess then & I still do (although it has got better & worse repeatedly - he has been sound enough to place 5th in dressage & do some clinics between episodes), but now it's worse, I need to take stronger action.

(Please no hate for buying a 'navicular horse' when I should have sent him back. I have had horses continuously since I was 3, I am now 51 & he is without a shadow of a doubt my favourite out of all of them - and there have been a lot. I don't think he's a navicular horse. I think he's a horse with a grumbling abscess who coincidentally has slight changes on xray. Perhaps I'm stupid & deluded, but...meh.)

 

[HeyMich]

How old is he? Any other signs of PPID? It might be worth getting the vet for a test and a trial of Prascend. One of our kids ponies had grumbling abscesses and a half Prascend a day has sorted them out. He was only 13 at the time with no other symptoms... The ACTH test was within limits and the stim test showed only slightly elevated levels. The abscesses were the only real signpost and they are now a thing of the past (touches a massive piece of wood!).

 

[meleeka]

I’ve got similar with my mare, although she had an actual abscess that burst out the top a couple of months ago. She got over that but seems to have had a relapse since and the lameness, although slight, is still there and the hoof warm again. I haven’t had x-rays yet but that’s going to be next. I’m hot tubbing every day as that seems to help. I suspect cushings so will get her tested as well.

I will be watching this thread with interest.

 

[catembi]

Mine is 9, 17hh TB, raced twice over jumps at 6. I have had a cushings pony once. My chap has a lovely short shiny coat that looks nothing like hers! Zero top line though…very sunken.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Without trying to freak you out let me share my tale of woe and a grumbling abscess.

I am the queen of abscesses and via hot tubbing can usually locate them and have them drain in 24hrs and fully recovered within 5 days.

However, if I can’t locate it or if I think it might be under the point of the frog or deep under the sole I get the vet and get onto anti-biotics quickly as I don’t want it travelling up to bone.

Vet practice sends out lovely new vet when there was an abscess under point of frog, I knew it was there as it was draining a bit but not enough. She x-rays. Pointless exercise as pus will not show on an x-ray but in her defence she is checking for other issues to ensure it really is an abscess.

Not only does she not re-poutice to keep it clean but turns horse out in muddy paddock declaring it will come out on its own and as there was nothing visible on x-ray it’s not a big deal. Wtf?

24hrs later horse can’t walk. Call vet practice and INSIST senior vet is sent. Guess what? Massive abscess that has traveled up to bone, requires a bone scrape and surgery.

That was 3 months ago, massive vet bill, rehab bill, special shoes, special bedding in stable, can’t be outside on a wet day, needs special silly boot on every time she is out of stable and MASSIVE hole still in hoof which will take another 6 months to close over.

I am more than p****ed at the useless vet practice. How do you send a junior vet out with no oversight?

So in your situation, get a senior vet out, x-ray if they want to but question what they think they can see on the x-ray and insist on antibiotics to clear it up if they can’t see anything on the x-rays.

 

[catembi]

Oh gosh, Bonnie Allie! Poor you and your horse! Hope the horse’s recovery is good from now on!

 

[Bonnie Allie]

Oh gosh, Bonnie Allie! Poor you and your horse! Hope the horse’s recovery is good from now on!

Horse will recover but the poor practice manager at the vet practice might take longer. I did question in a very direct manner how their recruitment processes and their workforce capability improvements were coming along.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I very strongly suspect that my new chap has a grumbling abscess, which is currently flaring up. He had thorough xrays of both front feet a couple of months ago which showed nothing iro abscesses - but I am not sure if they show up on xray? About 2 months ago, the front of the hoof wall was very warm (warmth comes & goes) especially near the coronet band. I hot tubbed in sea salt for 3 days & wet poulticed, and turned out with a boot on - no pus. I poulticed the sole & heel. It died down for a bit, but he had a 10 day course of ABs for cellulitis, so that might have interrupted it.

Very definitely lame now & the foot is warm. The farrier is coming tomorrow (horse is barefoot) so I will see what he thinks. I am not sure whether I should start hot tubbing again, & poultice the coronet band as that seems to be where the warmth is, but do I WANT it to burst out there or might it cause permanent damage to how the hoof grows? Common sense would seem to dictate that it would be better for it to burst out in the sole area so that gravity can help it to drain? But I poulticed the sole before & it didn't do any good.

For full disclosure, he failed the vet on lameness in front while he was in his 28 day approval period, I got his feet xrayed, he had slight navicular changes, I thought that they were a red herring & that he was lame for another reason (I thought abscess), he was -ve to hoof testers & once the vet saw slight changes on xray, he was determined that that must be what the lamenness was. I thought he had an abscess then & I still do (although it has got better & worse repeatedly - he has been sound enough to place 5th in dressage & do some clinics between episodes), but now it's worse, I need to take stronger action.

(Please no hate for buying a 'navicular horse' when I should have sent him back. I have had horses continuously since I was 3, I am now 51 & he is without a shadow of a doubt my favourite out of all of them - and there have been a lot. I don't think he's a navicular horse. I think he's a horse with a grumbling abscess who coincidentally has slight changes on xray. Perhaps I'm stupid & deluded, but...meh.)

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-humble-hoof/id1459600791?i=1000559074621

 

[ycbm]

Without trying to freak you out let me share my tale of woe and a grumbling abscess.

I am the queen of abscesses and via hot tubbing can usually locate them and have them drain in 24hrs and fully recovered within 5 days.

However, if I can’t locate it or if I think it might be under the point of the frog or deep under the sole I get the vet and get onto anti-biotics quickly as I don’t want it travelling up to bone.

Vet practice sends out lovely new vet when there was an abscess under point of frog, I knew it was there as it was draining a bit but not enough. She x-rays. Pointless exercise as pus will not show on an x-ray but in her defence she is checking for other issues to ensure it really is an abscess.

Not only does she not re-poutice to keep it clean but turns horse out in muddy paddock declaring it will come out on its own and as there was nothing visible on x-ray it’s not a big deal. Wtf?

24hrs later horse can’t walk. Call vet practice and INSIST senior vet is sent. Guess what? Massive abscess that has traveled up to bone, requires a bone scrape and surgery.

That was 3 months ago, massive vet bill, rehab bill, special shoes, special bedding in stable, can’t be outside on a wet day, needs special silly boot on every time she is out of stable and MASSIVE hole still in hoof which will take another 6 months to close over.

I am more than p****ed at the useless vet practice. How do you send a junior vet out with no oversight?

So in your situation, get a senior vet out, x-ray if they want to but question what they think they can see on the x-ray and insist on antibiotics to clear it up if they can’t see anything on the x-rays.

I don't think what the vet did was at all unusual and it's how I've treated every abscess that horses of mine have had in the last 30 years, wait for them to pop off their own accord. Some abscesses do, very uncommonly, involve a bone infection though it's never clear to me which comes first. There is also a school of thought, among both vets and lay people, that giving antibiotics before an abscess is draining is counter-indicated because it suppresses it from eating its way out, without killing it off completely as the blood supply to an encapsulated abscess is so poor.
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[SEL]

Depending on how you go with the farrier a warm, wet poultice all the way round the hoof covering the coronet band topped with a nappy should soften everything. It took 6 weeks with my friend's mare and then there was green goo from the coronet band and frog. We alternated between wet and dry poultices.

 

[catembi]

Yes, I think that the 10 days of ABs for cellulitis has interrupted the ripening process. I have hot tubbed this morning, poulticed the coronet band and turned out in a boot. Pray for pus!

 

[Carrottom]

I think Epsom salts are more effective than table salt.

 

[Trouper]

Magnesium Sulphate paste is a very good and old-fashioned remedy for abscesses in people. It is just Epsom Salts mixed to a paste with glycerine (get it ready mixed from any chemist). I have not considered it for use with horses so doubtless someone will come along and tell me I am being an idiot, but if your farrier thinks it may come out through the coronet band then a paste may stay in contact longer on that area than just regular tubbing. I don't think I would use it on the frog area as it might make it too soft and liable to other infections!!

It draws very effectively but does make the area throb for the first few hours so I guess a horse may appear more lame to start with on this.

 

[catembi]

I will be off to the tack shop later for more vet wrap, poultices and will get some Epsom salt too. I just want the wretched thing to burst! He was less lame after hot tubbing whereas I had thought he’d be more lame as presumably the heat makes the abscess expand?

 

[Pinkvboots]

I am not keen for them to naturally travel up my mare got an infected pedal bone as a result and had to have part of it removed.

Get your farrier out they can try and pin point the spot and make a very small exit hole for it to drain, farriers are much better at this as vets tend to really hack away at the foot.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would definitely suspect Cushings/PPID and want a TRH-Stim test rather than ACTH to be sure that the results are definitive. I wouldn't turn a horse out in mud without a waterproof covering if I suspected an abscess, as BA's vet did but then I wouldn't have allowed the vet to turn the horse out.

 

[I'm Dun]

Mine had a nasty one a couple of months ago. It grumbled on, burst then dried up and he was sound. He went off to stay with a friend for a few weeks and it flared up again. She called her vet who found it had tracked right round his sole on both sides and looked like it had been there ages.

It made a right mess of the sole of his foot and he's a barefoot TB so not ideal! But he bounced back incredibly quickly, so while its probably not what I would have done it did clear it and probably much quicker than anything else would have done.

 

[ycbm]

I am not keen for them to naturally travel up my mare got an infected pedal bone as a result and had to have part of it removed.

I'm sorry to argue with you but I don't know how vets can be sure of this unless they are xraying the track from the very start. The only horse I know who had a pedal bone infection with an abscess had had the abscess open and drained well before the bone infection was spotted. She was operated on and recovered well.
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[Carrottom]

I will be off to the tack shop later for more vet wrap, poultices and will get some Epsom salt too. I just want the wretched thing to burst! He was less lame after hot tubbing whereas I had thought he’d be more lame as presumably the heat makes the abscess expand?

I think hot tubbing softens the surrounding area allowing it to expand and therefore causes less pain.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

I am not keen for them to naturally travel up my mare got an infected pedal bone as a result and had to have part of it removed.

Get your farrier out they can try and pin point the spot and make a very small exit hole for it to drain, farriers are much better at this as vets tend to really hack away at the foot.

Can I ask how long it took for your horse to be sound again? We are 12 weeks in from the surgery, with a shed load of rehab and the healing seems to be very very slow.

 

[Blanche]

I had a rpm mare of my own that had an abscess rumbling for ages. She was unshod and had very hard hooves. Had farrier and vet, farrier couldn’t find anything but vet sure it was abscess. It was really getting desperate as nothing was coming out despite tubbing every day and poulticing, all covering the coronet. At one point she started getting swelling everywhere. Legs like barrels and at one point her udder swelled to fill completely between her back legs. There was talk of her going in and them drilling into the hoof to get to the abscess, though I can’t remember all the details on that as it was so long ago. Eventually it came out of the coronet, with much relief from everyone, especially the mare. When the hoof grew back there was no problems at all with the growth, just a small line where it burst out and that eventually grew out. She had no residual problems with it. I’m not entirely sure on the length of time but I think it was two plus weeks. The first people I told were the vet and farrier when it burst as they had got as invested as me.

 

[Tracking_up]

Magnesium Sulphate paste is a very good and old-fashioned remedy for abscesses in people. It is just Epsom Salts mixed to a paste with glycerine (get it ready mixed from any chemist). I have not considered it for use with horses .......

My farrier recommends a sugar and iodine paste packed into the drainage hole when we get to dry poulticing....

 

[Pinkvboots]

I'm sorry to argue with you but I don't know how vets can be sure of this unless they are xraying the track from the very start. The only horse I know who had a pedal bone infection with an abscess had had the abscess open and drained well before the bone infection was spotted. She was operated on and recovered well.
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They didn't know for sure but she had a reoccurring abcess in that one foot, a top vet at Newmarket said it was highly likely that was what caused it so on that information I wouldn't want to leave them to track up.

 

[bouncing_ball]

They didn't know for sure but she had a reoccurring abcess in that one foot, a top vet at Newmarket said it was highly likely that was what caused it so on that information I wouldn't want to leave them to track up.

I get once bitten twice shy, but if you have a grumbling abscess that doesnt show up on an x-ray, what else can you do other than poultice, check for any exit sites with farrier / vet and wait? Apparently bone infection takes 2 weeks to develop enough to show in x-ray (see link to vet podcast on abscesses that I linked above.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I get once bitten twice shy, but if you have a grumbling abscess that doesnt show up on an x-ray, what else can you do other than poultice, check for any exit sites with farrier / vet and wait? Apparently bone infection takes 2 weeks to develop enough to show in x-ray (see link to vet podcast on abscesses that I linked above.

I know I understand its a bit of a waiting game and I know they don't always show on an x ray, I just would rather have my farrier try and locate it on the sole and drain it, but I appreciate its not always as easy as that I just know some folk just leave it to track up so it bursts out at the top of the hoof and I will always try to avoid that.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Can I ask how long it took for your horse to be sound again? We are 12 weeks in from the surgery, with a shed load of rehab and the healing seems to be very very slow.

She had nearly 3 months on box rest she was sound by then and allowed in the field, unfortunately when I tried to bring her back into work she went lame again it was totally unconnected she re injured her DDFT and was never ridden again.

 

[ycbm]

They didn't know for sure but she had a reoccurring abcess in that one foot, a top vet at Newmarket said it was highly likely that was what caused it so on that information I wouldn't want to leave them to track up.

I understand.
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[catembi]

Well, the tack shop didn't have epsom salts so I stocked up on poultices & vet wrap, did a soak in Himalayan rock salt (finally remembered that I have a proper long poultice boot, so dug it out & it made the whole thing easier), poulticed the coronet band & put the hoof boot back on. Farrier didn't show. Maybe tomorrow. The coronet band felt very soft, so let's hope some serious pus is ready to explode out of there!

 

[Sossigpoker]

If there has been no puss coming out and no shadow on the x-ray , how do they know for sure it's an abscess?
Mine had on and off lameness and heat in the foot that turned out to be a DDFT injury.
If the horse is insured or finances allow it , I'd want the foot to have an MRI scan.

 

[nutjob]

I've seen one burst out the coronet, it was a mess at the time but the hoof grew perfectly normally after. He was absolutely hopping lame for a several days which was awful but 2 months seems a long time if there's nothing else going on.