Grumpy/evil horse

[Seahorse]

Axel has always been a bit grumpy, he is the sort that looks at you with his ears forward, but when you go up to him he lays his ears flat back and really tries to look scary.
He never does anything just pulls faces, but recently he's become really bad that he's actually biting people.

I was so embaressed today, some people came to the yard and they were admiring Axey but when they went up to him to stroke him he was trying to attack them. He was then worried he was going to get hit and kept throwing his head up and hitting it on the top of the door.

I'm a bit worried as a couple of times people haven't been able to catch him in his stable, and as the tap for the yard is right next to his stable he often has people standing next to him and I don't think he likes it. I imagine that he's been biting people as they are filling their buckets and he his getting a smack for it.

To rug up and tack up he is awful, and to groom him you need full body armour.

To ride he is an angel, willing, happy and loves to be worked so I'm thinking he isn't in pain anywhere? Although he is seen regularly by a back lady but he is so sensitive she only has to look at him and he tries to bite her. He's even kicked out at her before when she's just put her hand on him. He also lifted his back leg up today when I took his saddle off.
Everything has been checked teeth, back and saddles.

Is there anything I can give him to make him happier? Does Coligone help with this sort of thing?

Have also just started him on Top Spec, would this make him worse?

 

[splatty]

My daughters pony sounds exactly like yours, am interested also to see what replies you get. Sorry no help am i.

 

[Irishcobs]

Is he grumpy with other horses too?
He sounds just like a horse at work. He has always been grumpy but has gotten worse as he has gotten older, he is now 20. He has actually got me on a few occasions, but knows he will get told off so shoots away. He is the same with horses, always going for the horses next door to him.There is not reason that we can think of for him to be like this, he is just very grumpy in the stable. He is better in the summer when he can live out.

 

[checkmate1]

Is he in 24/7 or does he get turnout? Could he get even more turnout? Thats always my first thoughts on grumpy horses in the winter, also if people have been smacking him when he goes to bite that maybe making him more grumpy, like a ongoing circle! Is he the grey in your sig? Hes lovley!

 

[Seahorse]

No he's fine with other horses, it's just people he hates!

He is better in the summer when he can live out too, and we are on alternate day turnout at the moment, so he's in every other day. Thinking about it, he's got grumpier since we've been doing that.

I might see if anyone will swap stables with me so he's in a quieter part of the yard.

 

[Cobland]

Sorry i cant offer advice but i hope they arent hitting him, im against it as it just makes the horse nervous

 

[Seahorse]

[ QUOTE ]
Is he in 24/7 or does he get turnout? Could he get even more turnout? Thats always my first thoughts on grumpy horses in the winter, also if people have been smacking him when he goes to bite that maybe making him more grumpy, like a ongoing circle! Is he the grey in your sig? Hes lovley!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I think that is exactly what is happening

also see my reply re alternate day turnout!!
and yes he is the grey in my sig. He's a lovely horse but people don't like him very much at the moment.

 

[Seahorse]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry i cant offer advice but i hope they arent hitting him, im against it as it just makes the horse nervous

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope they're not too, I will see if I can swap stables with someone to a quieter part of the yard.

 

[Bossanova]

I doubt there's much you can do, he sounds just like my horse

Can he move stables? We just stick Boss out of everyones way- he hates being where people walk past etc

 

[Cobland]

Has he had any bad experiences with people? Mo now attacks other horses as the two silly b****s let him out in the arena with their horses and he got kicked stupid.

 

[Seahorse]

I've had him since a yearling, and he came from a very well known stud.

While he was turned away as a 2 yr old he got very grumpy then and I think something might have happened to him then, the field was next to a pub and I have visions of some pissed tossers trying to get on him, although I have no evidence of this at all.
My physio thinks he may have had a nasty fall at that time also and he was probably in low grade pain all the time

He is 6 this year and is still seen regularly by a back lady.

 

[Coffee_Bean]

Sorry haven't got any advice apart from the fact he is gorgeous

 

[Seahorse]

Thank you, he is very gorgeous, but not with his ears back and his teeth showing!

 

[Halfpass]

I would let you swap with me hon but you'll have the same problem. How about the spare stable next to Tuiga?

 

[Seahorse]

I don't know if I like those stables over that side much, I was thinking of asking Annie?

 

[muddy_grey]

Definately swap stables I think. We had a stable next to the tack room adn there were always people walking past and we were always carefull which horse was in there. We had one who hated it and was grumpy with everyone, even though he never got hit. We put our old lady there as she loved nothing more than getting a pat every time someone went by and a sugar cube for every cup of tea

 

[Halfpass]

That wouldn't be a bad idea. Dave would move but it makes sense to have his 2 together!

 

[htobago]

LOL muddy-grey - my boy is next to the tack-room as well, and is a right nuisance demanding kisses and cuddles off everyone who walks past, or doing silly dances to get their attention, or throwing his horse-ball out in the hope that someone will play with him!

So sorry to hear you're having problems with Axey, seahorse - it does sound as though swapping to a quieter stable would be a good idea. Is there any way he could get more turnout - even an hour or so in a sand-school might help a bit? Or if he's fine with other horses, perhaps a stable mirror might make him happier? Or maybe some toys to play with, if he's getting bored? Dunno - sorry I can't be more help.

 

[TarrSteps]

I would definitely try some management changes - moving his location to somewhere out of the way, perhaps even tinkering with his feed, rugs etc.

I wouldn't rule out a pain issue just because he's okay to ride, though. When I was younger a girl I rode with bought a fantastic junior jumper which was fantastic to ride - he literally packed her over 5' courses and never seemed uncomfortable or resistant - but absolutely evil on the ground. He picked me up one day by the shoulder when I got too close, shook me like a dog with a rat, and dropped me. Luckily it was winter so I had a heavy coat on but it was still pretty scary.

Apparently he had always been crabby but was not a particularly young horse and had only been getting slightly worse as he got older. Interestingly a very good horseman ran the barn at the time and I remember him saying to me the first day the horse came he thought something was wrong with it, although he couldn't put his finger on it.

Over the course of a year or so the horse gradually started to show a few physical symptoms (he would have been 8-9 at least by this point and had been bought from his well known breeders, so his history was pretty clear), starting to drink more than average and getting harder to keep weight on. But all that time he stayed absolutely fine to ride and continued to win in the ring. Eventually the weight loss became hard to ignore and he was sent to a vet hospital for more thorough testing . . . at which point he was found to have a serious kidney disease. Basically his kidneys had been dying since the day he was born and he'd never lived a day not in pain. The vets accounted for his good performance by suggesting that was the only time his mind was otherwise occupied, rather like an ill person feeling better for completing and enjoyable task or going to the movies. In the end there was nothing anyone could ever have done for him but it was all an eye opening experience.

I also knew a horse that had been a very top class showjumper turned amateur horse and was basically fine to ride but evil to deal with. He developed an odd colic-like ailment in his teens and had to be PTS, only to be found to have a drastically diseased liver.

Other "evil" horse I've known have had brain tumours, arthritis - all sorts of ailments. Some have just hated their situations or been unhappy in their ridden work, even though that's not where the problem showed itself. ("Diagnosed" by marked improvement with measured changes in routine, riding etc.)

I've also met some that are just evil. The only qualifier though, is that they've usually been notably unpleasant from foal-hood. It's the CHANGE that makes me suspicious, not just the behaviour.

I'm not trying to scare you, I'm just saying in my experience (and profession) saying it's "one of those things" has not always been a satisfactory answer. Being aggressive and upset is not "normal" for horses. Of course if you can make him "happier" with simple management that's the way to go. I am NOT saying behaviour problems always have a physical cause. Sometimes the horse is just upset/angry/learning the wrong things. But don't rule out a physical cause just because the horse is okay to ride. A multipronged approach to finding out what's making him behave the way he is will likely bring you the most successful improvement.

 

[YorksG]

I would try cutting out any molasses and alfalfa from his diet, worked wonders for one of ours.

 

[Seahorse]

Cruiser, how interesting about that horse, and rather upsetting too

I often wonder if Axey has some pain somewhere, as he is very sensitive to brush and generally touch, but there's nothing that you can put your finger on if you know what I mean. He looks fab and in really good condition. But there's always something that niggles me about him that's not right.
If I hadn't known him from a baby I would say he'd been ill treated but I know he hasn't.
Also spoke to his breeder and he said that Axey's mother is the same and every foal she's ever bred have all been a bit grumpy to handle, but would never actually do anything. That made me feel a lot better! But now he is actually really biting people, and getting quite evil when you go near him.

Poor boy

I'll move stables and get him some Coligone. My physio once mentioned that he might have tummy ache.

thanks guys x

 

[MagicMelon]

Can you turn him out more? I know a lot of "normal" horses who turn into miserable sods in the stable which is understandable.

 

[meliacaribe]

I have a very grumpy/nasty horse, particularly when you are trying to groom, rug or tack him up - although he loves being clipped or bathed - but I know it's nothing to do with discomfort, as he doesn't do any of it when I get him ready in the lorry!
Telling him off doesn't work as he just thinks you're up for a fight, so he comes back for more! However, if I go into the stable armed with any kind of spray bottle - normally mane & tail spray - he stands sweetly, with a smile on his face, and doesn't even need to be tied up! I now hardly ever have to squirt it, but if he does need a reminder I just squirt it towards his nose! Ultimate respect! Try it, you never know!

 

[TarrSteps]

Sorry if I spread excessive gloom!

To be fair the vast majority of horses I've known with behavioural issues have not ended in tears or required superhuman effort to manage. One apparently had a feed allergy - she went completely mental on one type of feed (weaving, kicking, aggressive towards all and sundry) and was lovely on almost anything else. Others have had territorial issues, problems with stress etc. Odds are your problem is NOT extraordinary but you're doing the right thing by trying some detective work and not just ignoring the problem.

 

[Seahorse]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a very grumpy/nasty horse, particularly when you are trying to groom, rug or tack him up - although he loves being clipped or bathed - but I know it's nothing to do with discomfort, as he doesn't do any of it when I get him ready in the lorry!
Telling him off doesn't work as he just thinks you're up for a fight, so he comes back for more! However, if I go into the stable armed with any kind of spray bottle - normally mane & tail spray - he stands sweetly, with a smile on his face, and doesn't even need to be tied up! I now hardly ever have to squirt it, but if he does need a reminder I just squirt it towards his nose! Ultimate respect! Try it, you never know!

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL I'll try that then !