GSD Puppy help!!

scats

scats

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 September 2007
Messages
10,524
Location
Wherever it is I’ll be limping
Visit site
My friends family has always had GSDs and the last one went throug a really horrid stage when he was about 4 months that sounds very similar to your dog.
Fortunately he grew out of it with consistent handling and redirection and became the softest and most docile GSD I’ve ever known. Jus to give you hope! There was one point that we honestly thought we had a dangerous dog on our hands.

My brothers Malinois was also pretty bad when she was young. It got her the nickname the ‘Maligator’! Again, she grew out of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HEM
9

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
I agree with Twiggy on this one - with all due respect to other HHOers this pup is being trained to do a job, and none of us are police dog handlers.

Whilst I completely understand why you posted OP, you are asking the wrong people - you need to be going back to the dog section of the police force he came from, and asking them what to do.
 
Moobli

Moobli

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 June 2013
Messages
5,861
Location
Scotland
Visit site
OP sorry you are struggling. I have had GSDs for 25+ years but only my last three have been from continental working lines and they have definitely been a steep learning curve, especially in terms of drive and energy, especially as pups and adolescents. They are awesome dogs but do need to be handled firmly but with sensitivity and need to be engaged with lots of mental stimulation and kept busy at this age. As your family are puppy walking this lovely lad (and he looks gorgeous) for your local police force then I would highly recommend videoing the behaviour that worries you and directing all your queries and worries about his behaviour to the police dog instructors. My ex was a police dog handler for 12 years and an instructor for 15 years and I could contact him for advice, but his force may have different rules and expectations so probably fairly worthless to you. From your description it doesn't sound like unusual behaviour for a puppy from working lines and I would suggest asking the police to place him with more experienced puppy walkers as any negative experiences now could impact on his chances of becoming a police dog in the future.
 
S

SadKen

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 September 2012
Messages
2,906
Location
North East Wales
Visit site
I have a super duper high drive working line GSD. He has never used his mouth (always preferred his toys) but In all other respects he sounds similar to your boy. Workers are something entirely apart from normal pet dogs. They are machines and need a different experience IMO.

My boy can't have kibble as it sends him crackers. I realise you can't change that, so you likely need to accept that whilst you have him you will rarely get time to yourself unless you use the crate. Mine is 8 now so we can relax a bit but that's only in the last 12 months. I had to train constantly. That's brain, not body. He had to think, hard, for at least 20 minutes to relax. We trained and trained, he loves it, 101 brain games for dogs was useful.

Our current pup is 1 now and although he is medium drive and low energy, he back chats us when he gets overtired. This results in nibbled knees which I hate, so he gets a warning and if he does it again I take him to his crate, firmly, by the scruff. 5 mins in time out and he is usually asleep.

I bet if you are prepared to train and interact constantly you will see a reduction in the red mist. That frenzy is stimulating and pushes a happy button in his brain. Training will do that too but it needs time and focus. It's hard work.

I adore my boy but there is no denying our regular pet 1yo GSD vs my worker is like comparing a Spot the Dog book with advanced masters mathematics. They are all consuming. I can't cuddle my boy, he doesn't want that, he wants to do a job with and for me, he is my partner rather than needing looking after. It's a very different mindset and takes a lot of getting used to.

Your pup is beautiful tho, that must help a bit.
 
Moobli

Moobli

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 June 2013
Messages
5,861
Location
Scotland
Visit site
Amymay said:
Would the ‘release’ command be useful to teach?
Click to expand...

Presumably which commands and how they should be taught will be advised at the various training sessions the police set up for their puppy programme. At this stage, I know with my local force (where two of my dog's brothers went to and are now licensed) they don't want the puppies to be overly discouraged from any kind of tugging, biting, retrieving kind of behaviour as it will be channelled appropriately in training.
 
AmyMay

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
66,146
Location
South
Visit site
Moobli said:
Presumably which commands and how they should be taught will be advised at the various training sessions the police set up for their puppy programme. At this stage, I know with my local force (where two of my dog's brothers went to and are now licensed) they don't want the puppies to be overly discouraged from any kind of tugging, biting, retrieving kind of behaviour as it will be channelled appropriately in training.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

So, a question - if the above is correct (and without any insult intended towards the op), why are these puppies not placed in experienced or professional homes?
 
Clodagh

Clodagh

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
25,177
Location
Devon
Visit site
Amymay said:
Fair enough.

So, a question - if the above is correct (and without any insult intended towards the op), why are these puppies not placed in experienced or professional homes?
Click to expand...

This I don't know. I have walked foxhounds, fairly dim and amiable creatures, and they are sent to people who understand what they need to be doing as a grown up. A friend walks guide dog pups and ditto, why is a malinois pup being walked by a family, who no doubt have absolutely the best of intentions and love hom dearly, but are not coping being left to sink or swim in this way? Getting a pup to his age must have cost the force a lot of money, they must want to maximise his chances of making it?
 
9

{97702}

...
Joined
9 July 2012
Messages
14,849
Visit site
Amymay said:
Fair enough.

So, a question - if the above is correct (and without any insult intended towards the op), why are these puppies not placed in experienced or professional homes?
Click to expand...

obviously Moobli will know far more than me, but having worked for a couple of police services I would guess it’s because there aren’t enough professional homes to go round? An officer with a working dog cannot also train a pup, he/she just wouldn’t have time.

I would imagine the police service make every effort to find experienced homes - these are resources paid for by the tax payer after all!
 
AmyMay

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
66,146
Location
South
Visit site
Clodagh said:
This I don't know. I have walked foxhounds, fairly dim and amiable creatures, and they are sent to people who understand what they need to be doing as a grown up. A friend walks guide dog pups and ditto, why is a malinois pup being walked by a family, who no doubt have absolutely the best of intentions and love hom dearly, but are not coping being left to sink or swim in this way? Getting a pup to his age must have cost the force a lot of money, they must want to maximise his chances of making it?
Click to expand...

OP, was the pup placed with your family because of your fathers experience?
 
B

bonny

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 September 2007
Messages
6,502
Visit site
Been googling and it seems you just need experience with dogs and a willingness to take the puppy to lots of different places and to meet lots of different people. You get the puppy at 8 weeks, go to training classes and hopefully if the dog ends up a well rounded individual it goes into police training at a year old.
 
Moobli

Moobli

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 June 2013
Messages
5,861
Location
Scotland
Visit site
Amymay said:
Fair enough.

So, a question - if the above is correct (and without any insult intended towards the op), why are these puppies not placed in experienced or professional homes?
Click to expand...

From my limited experience, they look for people with dog/dog training experience, a suitable home environment, with enough time to devote to a puppy ie someone around most of the day and who is willing and able to expose them to lots of new environments and experiences and they are expected to attend regular training sessions.

A dog handler who has an older dog due to retire is the ideal scenario but the number of puppies going through a development programme will far outnumber these "ideal" puppy walker homes. My pups were fortunate in that one went to an experienced handler who's current operational GP dog is due to retire in March and so his puppy was raised by him and his family and will replace his retiring dog. The other pup was puppy walked by a dog handler who had no puppy experience but who already handles GP and detection dogs.
 
S

SadKen

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 September 2012
Messages
2,906
Location
North East Wales
Visit site
Moobli said:
It's not for me. You put in all the hard work and then have the heartbreak of handing them over at 12 months. Very rewarding though I expect.
Click to expand...

Yeah I just looked at my lad who turned 12 months last week and they would have to pry him from my cold dead hands. I like the idea of raising a pup but genuinely would break my heart to let one go.
 
P

paddy555

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 December 2010
Messages
12,665
Visit site
Moobli said:
It's not for me. You put in all the hard work and then have the heartbreak of handing them over at 12 months. Very rewarding though I expect.
Click to expand...

my friends found that. The dog went back at a year old, did the police training and they went to it's passing out parade. They have the satisfaction of knowing he is now turning into a really effective police dog.
Secretly they were hoping he would fail and they could have him back. :)

they took the pup everywhere daily and the new police dog handler was delighted it had been so acclimatised to kids as he had young children.
 
HEM

HEM

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 January 2018
Messages
648
Visit site
scats said:
My friends family has always had GSDs and the last one went throug a really horrid stage when he was about 4 months that sounds very similar to your dog.
Fortunately he grew out of it with consistent handling and redirection and became the softest and most docile GSD I’ve ever known. Jus to give you hope! There was one point that we honestly thought we had a dangerous dog on our hands.

My brothers Malinois was also pretty bad when she was young. It got her the nickname the ‘Maligator’! Again, she grew out of it.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I am starting to feel there is light at the end of the tunnel!
I think this is probably the case, yesterday he was in the crate unless training, out and about or having a play in the garden. He was a bit noisier in the crate than usual so obviously not to happy about being in there more than usual but there was no rest mist! So a definite positive.
 
HEM

HEM

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 January 2018
Messages
648
Visit site
Moobli said:
From my limited experience, they look for people with dog/dog training experience, a suitable home environment, with enough time to devote to a puppy ie someone around most of the day and who is willing and able to expose them to lots of new environments and experiences and they are expected to attend regular training sessions.

A dog handler who has an older dog due to retire is the ideal scenario but the number of puppies going through a development programme will far outnumber these "ideal" puppy walker homes. My pups were fortunate in that one went to an experienced handler who's current operational GP dog is due to retire in March and so his puppy was raised by him and his family and will replace his retiring dog. The other pup was puppy walked by a dog handler who had no puppy experience but who already handles GP and detection dogs.
Click to expand...

100% this accurate. but you may also of thought it weird that the pup is 4 months old and we have had him nearly 3 weeks. He was placed with the exact family you have described, but was causing a lot of stress to the older dog so got given back to the police, they had him for a bit but obviously can't keep him. We weren't supposed to have him but he basically had no where else to go. The trainers have said that they are really excited to see him grow and be working and the reason of course they are excited about him is he is big, strong, smart, brave and all of the above. He wasn't the dog we were meant to be getting but I think it was a bit of a desperate situation. In an ideal world we would have been given a more docile dog but it's not always possible I guess.

In reply to everyone asking why haven't we gone to the police dog trainers, we have but they haven't been too helpful. I would hate to have to give up on this pup, at 4 months he has been in 3 different homes already, no wonder he is struggling to settle. But I was hoping and did get some good tips from people who potentially have a similarly breed dog and have gone through something similar while we get videos of this red mist state to show the trainers. I am glad I posted on here because discussing and getting peoples thoughts and opinions very much align with my own and hopefully we have turned a bit of a corner, either way I can see a light at the end of the tunnel for the pup with us.

Yesterday he was in the crate unless he was training, walking, or playing and he wasn't too happy about his lack of freedom and winged a bit but we have a relatively peaceful day and certainly no red mist! So it was a massive improvement, thanks everyone for the advise hopefully the extra time out in the crate has hit the nail on the head! Now to smash the tummy problems!

Sorry Moobli I ended up tagging on a general update.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top