Guilty Pleasures; Cob stallions at RWAS

[palo1]

I was given a ticket (through work) for Wednesday at the RWAS so, of course, I had to get a seat in the grandstand for the Welsh D Stallions class. I am not going to apologise in spite of knowing that lots of people will probably want to tell me it is dreadful for various reasons; I loved the experience!! 16 stallions forward into the ring with the most amazingly enthusiastic and totally partisan crowd Complete mayhem in some people's view but all horses looking good; some a bit well covered but easily as many looking fit and in sensible condition. It is a testament to the breed's temperament that 16 of the fiery little dragons can perform in the way they do. And a testament to their handlers that on this occasion no-one face-planted on the increasingly greasy going!! I really liked the winner too but all of those stallions had real presence and most of them moved really well too; in spite of the logistical issue of a human person on the end of the rope being largely unable to keep up or fly their dragon kites as requested by the dragons lol. Naughty but nice hahahahahahaha and thoroughly recommended.

 

[Clodagh]

I’ll leave you to your enjoyment and not get negative about the welfare then

 

[cauda equina]

I bet it was spectacular and am disappointed that there are no photos!

 

[palo1]

I’ll leave you to your enjoyment and not get negative about the welfare then

Well thank you for that lol. I hear you and happy to talk about welfare issues of course - hence the Guilty Pleasures title. I have no personal knowledge of any of the studs that were showing stallions yesterday.

 

[Clodagh]

Apart from that poor mare that died travelling home from there a few years ago, I’m mainly unconvinced that it does any breed any good to be portrayed as savage uncontrollable beasts. Like Arab showing, it makes me despair.
But I know I’m a wet weekend.

 

[Tiddlypom]

But I know I’m a wet weekend.

I'll join you in the wet weekend with my umbrella .

Whilst I love a good D, section D showing and breeding does absolutely nothing for me. Even the well known sec D stud that breeds big sec Ds - went there with a friend who was looking, got to the yard and wondered all the horses were. They were all shut away in dark barns with no windows or top doors open.

 

[palo1]

Apart from that poor mare that died travelling home from there a few years ago, I’m mainly unconvinced that it does any breed any good to be portrayed as savage uncontrollable beasts. Like Arab showing, it makes me despair.
But I know I’m a wet weekend.

I don't know about the mare that died travelling home. The stallions yesterday were absolutely NOT portrayed as savage uncontrollable beasts - that isn't what I or the people sitting around me got at all. I think the crowd at RWAS know and love the cobs and yes, it IS a spectacle with dramatic music and much noise and yelling from the crowd but actually all the stallions were pretty chilled and all handlers doing their best to walk their dragons when requested. I was mildly surprised, actually, that it felt so benign tbh. I had slightly expected to be horrified in some way but really wasn't. I watched the stallions in the paddock too and some really excellent horsemanship shown there too. The dairy cows however...I felt sickened by that There was some really admirable stock handling in general if you are prepared to accept the whole premise of it.

 

[palo1]

I'll join you in the wet weekend with my umbrella .

Whilst I love a good D, section D showing and breeding does absolutely nothing for me. Even the well known sec D stud that breeds big sec Ds - went there with a friend who was looking, got to the yard and wondered all the horses were. They were all shut away in dark barns with no windows or top doors open.

If that is the same stud that I acquired my D from, my experience was rather different - with stallions happily being brought in and out and being shown on the yard for me. But yes, I am aware that some studs employ stallion prisons. It is far more common than not and that is a welfare issue.

 

[Clodagh]

The mare died as they are kept in blacked out stables so they appear more excited and stressed when showing. It was very hot and she dropped dead in the trailer in the way home.

 

[palo1]

The mare died as they are kept in blacked out stables so they appear more excited and stressed when showing. It was very hot and she dropped dead in the trailer in the way home.

Yes, I am aware of the alleged practice of keeping horses in blacked out stables but I hadn't heard about that poor horse Horrible and I hope the owners/keepers learnt a very serious lesson, as well as the show committee, stewards etc; surely that practice is monitored??? I have not seen the blacked out stables anywhere myself but not involved in breeding or showing in any way other than as a spectator. For myself, I definitely would not need to do anything at all to engineer 'excitement' in my Welsh D in that kind of scenario!! In fact I was amazed at how calm the Welshies were considering...

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

The mare died as they are kept in blacked out stables so they appear more excited and stressed when showing. It was very hot and she dropped dead in the trailer in the way home.

Do they really? Just when you think someone can't possibly find an evil thing to do to a horse, they come up with something. Welsh Ds can naturally be exuberant, they are in hand, with simple tack - I thought apart from obesity, how far wrong can it go?! Turn out very... awful.

 

[palo1]

Do they really? Just when you think someone can't possibly find an evil thing to do to a horse, they come up with something. Welsh Ds can naturally be exuberant, they are in hand, with simple tack - I thought apart from obesity, how far wrong can it go?! Turn out very... awful.

All the stallions yesterday were exuberant but as you say, in very simple tack and when not flying their handlers round the ring, actually very chilled and not at all stressed appearing.

 

[J&S]

Re blacked out stables: my old farrier was a hackney man. He told me that for the showing (big indoor shows especially) they were blind folded until they were at the edge of the ring. Prior to that they had been kept in dark stables with doors closed and had kids kick footballs randomly against the doors to make them jumpy and ready to run. These were back street kept hackneys, lots around London. I hasten to add that his hackneys were not kept this way!!
I have heard similar tales regarding top agility dogs being kept under strict regimes so they were mega excited when let out to play (perform).

Please bear in mind I am very old and some stories can get magnified in the telling over the years, I would like to think these practices are long gone.

 

[ester]

I’ll join you , albeit some of the live feed while at work . Entries seemed low this year. The buckskin seemed particularly well mannered but equally wasn’t as exciting movement wise then.

 

[palo1]

I’ll join you , albeit some of the live feed while at work . Entries seemed low this year. The buckskin seemed particularly well mannered but equally wasn’t as exciting movement wise then.

Yes, the buckskin was very mannerly but didn't have the extravagant movement that the others showed. There were several that I thought would look good with a saddle on and a few that were a bit too exaggerated for my liking. It was good to see a variety of types actually and I always love the comedy of the handlers sprinting along to keep up. Benny Hill eat your heart out lol!!

 

[SilverLinings]

The mare died as they are kept in blacked out stables so they appear more excited and stressed when showing. It was very hot and she dropped dead in the trailer in the way home.

This (the bit I've bolded) is mentioned in books from the early 1700s onwards (and possibly earlier, that's just the earliest reference I've seen personally) as an undesirable tactic commonly employed by horse copers (disreputable dealers) to make broken-down hacks, hunters and carriage horses appear 'spirited' and younger/fitter/healthier than they were when buyers came to view them. It was said to be a tactic that worked particularly well with young men who often wanted fast, flashy horses but didn't know enough about horses to be able to identify poor health. The general advice to buyers was to get to the viewing early, and to be very suspicious of any horse that is being kept in a closed-up stable.

It is incredibly sad that several hundred years later some humans are still using such cruel and deceitful methods just to make a horse look flashy.

Sorry to derail the thread slightly OP, I am glad that this isn't a practice that you have come across in person

 

[palo1]

Re blacked out stables: my old farrier was a hackney man. He told me that for the showing (big indoor shows especially) they were blind folded until they were at the edge of the ring. Prior to that they had been kept in dark stables with doors closed and had kids kick footballs randomly against the doors to make them jumpy and ready to run. These were back street kept hackneys, lots around London. I hasten to add that his hackneys were not kept this way!!
I have heard similar tales regarding top agility dogs being kept under strict regimes so they were mega excited when let out to play (perform).

Please bear in mind I am very old and some stories can get magnified in the telling over the years, I would like to think these practices are long gone.

There was a hackney in the driving championship at RWAS yesterday; beautiful and better mannered than his Welsh C competitor lol. They are beautiful, gentle horses and I very much hope they are treasured and treated with the appropriate respect and affection these days.

 

[palo1]

This (the bit I've bolded) is mentioned in books from the early 1700s onwards (and possibly earlier, that's just the earliest reference I've seen personally) as an undesirable tactic commonly employed by horse copers (disreputable dealers) to make broken-down hacks, hunters and carriage horses appear 'spirited' and younger/fitter/healthier than they were when buyers came to view them. It was said to be a tactic that worked particularly well with young men who often wanted fast, flashy horses but didn't know enough about horses to be able to identify poor health. The general advice to buyers was to get to the viewing early, and to be very suspicious of any horse that is being kept in a closed-up stable.

It is incredibly sad that several hundred years later some humans are still using such cruel and deceitful methods just to make a horse look flashy.

Sorry to derail the thread slightly OP, I am glad that this isn't a practice that you have come across in person

I agree! I haven't either seen or heard of this practice in a long time tbh and wonder if it is somewhat apocryphal these days. I don't have anything to do with showing but do have a variety of horse breeding neighbours; none of whom keep stallions shut up or who keep horses in the way described. I know a great many young horses are kept in relative confinement in some of the bigger sport horse studs and I know there are poor welfare practices across the board in horse keeping; including in livery yards and professional sporting situations. I didn't see the Welsh Cob stallions as stressed or over stimulated yesterday; I was impressed with how well they dealt with the atmosphere and did think yesterday's show was good for the breed's reputation wrt temperament etc.

 

[meleeka]

I know someone that kept a D stallion in a stable 24/7 for years unless the owner was showing it, mainly because they were terrified of it! I believe he’s been gelded now, but of course is still a pretty screwed up character. He wasn’t even a particularly good example of the breed.

 

[ester]

I was unconvinced about the section A broodies (with foals tbf) all rearing quite so much given that they mostly have to try and be kids ponies.

 

[palo1]

I know someone that kept a D stallion in a stable 24/7 for years unless the owner was showing it, mainly because they were terrified of it! I believe he’s been gelded now, but of course is still a pretty screwed up character. He wasn’t even a particularly good example of the breed.

That is horrible It does sort of reflect why some sorts of horses are really not 'right' for some people, or any horse actually!!

 

[palo1]

I was unconvinced about the section A broodies (with foals tbf) all rearing quite so much given that they mostly have to try and be kids ponies.

Did you see the one foal that was SOOOOO bold; he/she really owned the arena and was not remotely concerned about sticking with mum lol?!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I was unconvinced about the section A broodies (with foals tbf) all rearing quite so much given that they mostly have to try and be kids ponies.

Inhand ponies are a different breed to the Ridden ones plus they will be being pumped full of high energy food to make them ping.

There were a LOT of bad practices that went on in showing Welsh and Arabs. Mostly gone now though thankfully.

I remember taking our Welsh Cob to a show as a 2yo. There was only 2 of them in the class. The other one was in a trailer parked right at the ring entrance with all its doors closed and windows blacked out. They opened the ramp, it launched out and round the ring to win then go straight back into the blacked out trailer. That was over a decade ago though.

 

[palo1]

Inhand ponies are a different breed to the Ridden ones plus they will be being pumped full of high energy food to make them ping.

There were a LOT of bad practices that went on in showing Welsh and Arabs. Mostly gone now though thankfully.

I remember taking our Welsh Cob to a show as a 2yo. There was only 2 of them in the class. The other one was in a trailer parked right at the ring entrance with all its doors closed and windows blacked out. They opened the ramp, it launched out and round the ring to win then go straight back into the blacked out trailer. That was over a decade ago though.

Yuk. That is NOT horsemanship I feel more optimistic that there is far more skill and sympathy these days. I still love the extravagance and showmanship of the cob showing at RWAS; there is huge enthusiasm in the crowd and I love the presence of the Welshies. There is definitely a certain skill as well as attitude needed to go into that main ring, with that crowd and show a stallion well. I salute those that are doing it properly.

 

[millikins]

We took a mare to a very well known stud about 10 years ago, they had horses in blacked out stables There was a young chap there who appeared to work for them, I asked him the name of a very pretty filly and received the reply "Dunno, don't think it's got one".

 

[McFluff]

I watched some of that feed and was amazed at how the handlers kept up. I’d have been flat on my face!
Mine would look like that without any extra feed or tricks. It’s just his dragon personality. I’m too slow to show him in hand (and he’s very well mannered).

 

[ester]

There's pictures of rara's palo stallion there as a 4yo, getting him sufficiently wild must have been a process as in real life he's so zen as to be a bit horizontal . But I like to think they are all a bit more normal in real life.

 

[palo1]

There's pictures of rara's palo stallion there as a 4yo, getting him sufficiently wild must have been a process as in real life he's so zen as to be a bit horizontal . But I like to think they are all a bit more normal in real life.

I see lots of relatively normal Welshies and my mare is pretty chilled but I don't think that environment at RWAS is designed to help relaxation lol. The stallions I saw on Wednesday seemed quite happy to switch on and off and a couple were indeed, almost horizontal which was probably disappointing for their handlers in that situation!

 

[humblepie]

Not had anything to do with M & M showing but am amazed at how fast you have to run if showing a Section D. I can remember showing my ex racehorse show hack at a county show when the Arab in hand classes were in the next door ring and that wasn't helpful the way they were trying to wind them up from the outside of the ring whilst trying to appear the epitomy of cool collected elegance next door! I really didn't like to see that and can imagine moving them into ridden horses could be interesting. I was involved in a professional showing yard and can happily say they everything was good horsemanship, proper schooling, no gadgets, long hacks, lots of turn out etc etc and an awful lot of hard work.

 

[abbijay]

There was a hackney in the driving championship at RWAS yesterday; beautiful and better mannered than his Welsh C competitor lol. They are beautiful, gentle horses and I very much hope they are treasured and treated with the appropriate respect and affection these days.

This is interesting... I was at Cheshire show and the heavy horse car park was used by the private driving section too. There was an Ifor trailer that was fully shut up but parked there for much of the day and periodically the horse inside would start kicking and banging. When it came to time to prep it they were climbing in through the jockey door and at one point 2 people came hurtling out while the trailer rocked violently. I'd never suspected they were doing it so it would have more presence in the ring!