Gundog folk - Vizsla pup retrieving help please

[minesadouble]

We have an almost 6m Vizsla dog pup, initially he did not seem hugely enthusiastic about retrieving but now loves it. At first he was reluctant to hand over the dummy, initially he was on a long line, then he would circle his handler with the dummy and so he always delivered to the hand because he was reluctant to give it up.
Now however, as his enthusiasm has grown he almost 'throws' the dummy at you on his return. Because he is now keen as mustard I think this is because he thinks the sooner he gets the dummy back to you he sooner you will throw it again. How do I encourage him to deliver it properly without diminishing his enthusiasm for the retrieve?
We do get pro help with him but due to work and school holidays we have had a gap in training! Thank you

 

[Alec Swan]

Reading the thread title, I thought that your problem was going to be the complete opposite!! It's easier demonstrated than explained, in print.

Generally at the age of 6 months I've not stopped a dog from running in to the retrieve.

Generally at the age of 6 months, the puppy will only be getting a couple of retrieves at a session, as we don't want to encourage a lack of respect for the dummy, or the handler, and it sounds like that's what's happening.

If the puppy is as strong as your post suggests, then (if you haven't already), I'd be introducing a bit of VERY careful discipline, in that he waits to be sent off. It might also be time to start extending his abilities, by not giving him sighted retrieves, in other words, dropping his retrieves in to long grass, where he has to actually use his nose. If you're already doing this, then a carefully raised hand as he comes back to you, by way of 'almost' a stop, should encourage a slower and more purposeful delivery.

When as a novice, which it sounds as though you may be, and our dog is retrieving well, we have to engineer the system whereby we're no longer grateful for the retrieve, but that it's what we expect, and importantly, the dog views retrieving as a privilege rather than a bit of fun.

Life for puppies should be a game, but there are games and then there are 'games', and it sounds as though your puppy may be becoming a little disrespectful, and the answer to that is either a very slight tightening of the discipline screw, or less retrieving work, I feel.

If you have confidence in your trainer, then the best thing would be to seek their advice, as they will have a better understanding of both you, and your puppy.

Good luck, and apart from saying "Don't worry too much", I'd also add that the situation shouldn't become ever more entrenched.

Alec.

 

[minesadouble]

Thanks Alec, I think he would probably 'wait' to run in, though I've not yet asked him to.
When he first sees the dummy he goes nuts! (We only get it out a couple of times a week) After his initial excitement he then gets down and points/stalks the dummy until it is thrown. So am taking this as an indicator that steadiness may be easier with him than some other breeds??
Our trainer told me to build his enthusiasm first and worry about steadiness later, I think he is well and truly enthusiastic now!!
I might just lay off the dummy until we can get back for another training session. You are right about novice BTW, this is our first gundog (though he is family pet first and foremost) and am worried about cocking him up - thanks again
Ooh one more question - I have little kiddies (4 and 6) too who obviously adore him and like to throw tennis balls for him, I only occasionally let them as I am worried it will spoil his training, he does seem to differentiate between the ball game and the dummy. Is this OK, or should I be spoilsport mum and not let them throw the ball for him?

 

[gunnergundog]

Ooh one more question - I have little kiddies (4 and 6) too who obviously adore him and like to throw tennis balls for him, I only occasionally let them as I am worried it will spoil his training, he does seem to differentiate between the ball game and the dummy. Is this OK, or should I be spoilsport mum and not let them throw the ball for him?

Depends how serious you are about the gundog work is the short answer!

Personally, I wouldn't allow the kids to throw things for him as it is too easy for them to introduce faults that can be a pain, or sometimes nigh on impossible, to eradicate. I'm thinking of the kids hyping the dog up so that he starts to mouth items; also, perhaps playing tuggy with him if he is reluctant to release; possibly him learning to blink items if they throw balls all around him and he learns to ignore. Then of course when you start to teach steadiness, if they continue to allow him to run in it will undermine all your good work.

Having said all of that, I do play tug with all of mine........after having taught a rock solid release command. I also do allow them to run in when we are in play mode. A bit unconventional, but I work on the principle that 'sometimes we do and sometimes we don't' and I expect the dogs to take their cues from me and be flexible. They do learn to differentiate play/work but if you want to make life easy for yourself with your first dog then I would go down a more orthodox route and be a spoilsport as far as the kids are concerned.

I should add that mine are not FT standard, but just good solid working dogs.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

Personally, I wouldn't allow the kids to throw things for him as it is too easy for them to introduce faults that can be a pain, or sometimes nigh on impossible, to eradicate. I'm thinking of the kids hyping the dog up so that he starts to mouth items; also, perhaps playing tuggy with him if he is reluctant to release; possibly him learning to blink items if they throw balls all around him and he learns to ignore. Then of course when you start to teach steadiness, if they continue to allow him to run in it will undermine all your good work.

........ if you want to make life easy for yourself with your first dog then I would go down a more orthodox route and be a spoilsport as far as the kids are concerned.

........

The soundest advice. That said, when I trained for a living (sort of!), those youngsters which came from families with young children, were the dogs which always seemed to 'listen'. It seems to me that young children seem to teach dogs lessons which we, as adults, are unable to, or just 'don't'!

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

Our trainer told me to build his enthusiasm first and worry about steadiness later, I think he is well and truly enthusiastic now!!

.......

Your trainer is entirely correct. 30 years ago things were different, but today we're breeding dogs which take offence too easily, and today we pussy-foot around them, but that's for another discussion!

Alec.

 

[druid]

Teach him to hold. Sit on the sofa, sit him up between your feet. Hand him the dummy, ask him to hold. Praise him, give the release/dead command and gently remove the dummy. Eventually if he spits the dummy when retrieving you can give him the hold command and get a proper delivery of the dummy.

I don't stop them running in until 8 months or so, enthusiasm is key! I do compete mine so am a bit more demanding, but I often finish the summer with a polished dog and finish the winter with a slightly wild dog more prone to the odd selective deafness or run-in on a runner.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Mine was unfortunately taught this by a trainer. We've had to unteach this by insisting n to hand and reinforcing by turning away and using a noise to tell him no. It's worked, mostly!