druid
Well-Known Member
Hopefully Steve has some ideas but if you don't click with Scout, you don't click with him.
Gundog people
- Thread starter Clodagh
- Start date
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
Thank you for getting it. I do accept it’s my failing, and he’s really knocked my confidence in my training abilities.
Steve may be able to help and I agree paid shot over training would be good but I just don’t trust him. If I can get him good enough to go to a couple of the shoots I attend which are extremely tolerant of wild dogs then that would be great. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to do the big ones with him, I’m too busy to train at the same time there.
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I totally get it knocking your confidence in your training abilities, I have been there and am still there as I don't trust the youngster, he's a super dog, fast stylish hunting, mad on a retrieve but he's in all honesty too much dog for me.
I can train to a degree, puppy basics but I can't get that final "click" of connection with a dog that makes you a team. I have decided these two I have now will be my last dogs.
druid
Well-Known Member
A lot of spaniels are/were bred to be men's dogs and needed to accept a degree of bullying/domination to tow the lie because that was (is) the training style some trainers preferred/knew how to do. I won't have these lines but they're their lurking in many pedigrees
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
Your decision of course but you are obviously doing really really well, up to comp standard with your dog. I think it’s your confidence that’s struggling, not your ability.
I know I can train, I have several beautifully behaved exceptionally good working dogs. Scout makes me think I can’t train him. I’m worried about the new one as I am scared of failing again. But I’ll have her from a pup, she’s from a super biddable bitch and she will be female. No more boy dogs for me. I’m also not good with dogs that have baggage. Red is fine but she was a blank canvas rather than a complicated one.
So keep on keeping on. And if all else fails get a Labrador!
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
Possibly done for different reasons but chemical castration worked really well for Zazu
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
I have been thinking I might fancy a spaniel next
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
Apparently it depends if his cortisol is testosterone driven, as to whether it works.
Was Zazu for humping? A friend did their rescue dog who was OBSESSED and it not only stopped that but also made him better behaved. Apparently, although he mugged Pen one day when she was on her way back from a long retrieve… not happy.
He is a pain with Red though, when he’s excited he goes all sex pest. Not with the others, they curl a lip if he even looks at them.
I don’t let him, but it’s yet another thing.
druid
Well-Known Member
I have been thinking I might fancy a spaniel next
I love them, find a good trainer and they're some of the best fun you'll ever have but they are SO different from retrievers that it's quite an eyeopener
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
I did like my little Pepper (crack weasel) that you helped me with, Druid. But I can’t be doing with a dog I can’t take for relaxing walks.
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
No luckily Zazu has never humped, but he was marking on retrieves, and a bit arsey with other dogs (never Rafi tho luckily). Think it all came from nerves with him, and now he doesn't feel like he has to be the 'big man'. He never marks now and he will still be arsey with other dogs but they have to start it if you know what I mean. A downside I've found is some other male dogs want to hump him now
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
I've really enjoyed beating this season hence my thoughts, but I don't want another dog for a while unless something changes so got time to think about it
druid
Well-Known Member
I've really enjoyed beating this season hence my thoughts, but I don't want another dog for a while unless something changes so got time to think about it
Let me know when the time comes and I'll try recommend a litter
druid
Well-Known Member
I'm so used to it that it doesn't bother me - and they do get to go to the beach for free runs!
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
Thank you
Thistle
Well-Known Member
I have been thinking I might fancy a spaniel next
As the owner of two spaniels, a VERY high drive pig headed springer (now retired due to physical soundness problems) and a totally screwed up rescue cocker and two labradors, I can confirm that the saying 'labradors are born half trained, spaniels die half trained' is completely true!
However when the springer was working/training nothing could beat the sense of achievement when he was on form, fantastic to watch and sheer joy in his work.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
That sounds like Scout! Maybe it being elusive makes it more satisfying
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
A little update (for me, mainly). Session with Steve is next Thursday. I’m going to write down the entire progression of mine and Scout’s disastrous season so I don’t forget anything.
I haven’t done any gun dog training at all with him, but he has been in boot camp , obedience wise. I’m generally blessed with my dogs that they are so good I don’t need to monitor their every move but that doesn’t seem to work with S. so now he’s at heel except when I say he needn’t be. Any command requires immediate action. Sit/wait eye contact for every move when he’s out the kennel. Admit it’s not natural to me and the girls are a bit depressed by it but they are adjusting.
I haven’t done any gun dog training at all with him, but he has been in boot camp , obedience wise. I’m generally blessed with my dogs that they are so good I don’t need to monitor their every move but that doesn’t seem to work with S. so now he’s at heel except when I say he needn’t be. Any command requires immediate action. Sit/wait eye contact for every move when he’s out the kennel. Admit it’s not natural to me and the girls are a bit depressed by it but they are adjusting.
EllieBeast
Well-Known Member
Good luck on Thursday! The zero tolerance boot camp is wearing but very satisfying when you start to see it sink in.
Erik is on heelwork boot camp again after the end of the shooting season. Not something that comes naturally to HPRs
druid
Well-Known Member
We had a bit of fun today....how well do your dogs know their whistle and voice commands was the theme
Walk dog at heel, blow stop without breaking your stride, looking down or giving any hand signal....does the dog stop?
While walking away, back to dog use your recall whistle without any other indication/command. Does the dog recall?
If you have separate commands for left and right: place 2 dummies about 30y apart on a fence line. Sit dog up at the midway point. Back yourself up about 10y so you form the tail of a T with the dog at the centre. Send the dog left or right (out and away for us) with only your voice.
Similar idea for the back cast command
Next level is doing the handling with the dog behind a hedge so zero visual clues!
Walk dog at heel, blow stop without breaking your stride, looking down or giving any hand signal....does the dog stop?
While walking away, back to dog use your recall whistle without any other indication/command. Does the dog recall?
If you have separate commands for left and right: place 2 dummies about 30y apart on a fence line. Sit dog up at the midway point. Back yourself up about 10y so you form the tail of a T with the dog at the centre. Send the dog left or right (out and away for us) with only your voice.
Similar idea for the back cast command
Next level is doing the handling with the dog behind a hedge so zero visual clues!
EllieBeast
Well-Known Member
Ooooh I’m going to have a go at this! 
I’ll report back with the hilarity
I’ll report back with the hilarity
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
Ooh im going to try this
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i have been doing some ladder retrieves - set dog up with 4 retrieves in a line, then I'll ask him to pick number 3 by sending and stopping on 1 and 2 then use the lost command to ask him to pick number 3 and so on, I'm having some success and he's starting to listen more.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
That’s amazing!
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
I tried the stop/recall while walking them all down the field this morning. They were really good the first two times and then just didn’t bother recalling, said they’d stay sitting until I made up my mind. 
.
I don’t have a verbal left or right.
.I don’t have a verbal left or right.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
Well Scout went for a session with Steve today. I told Steve I was seriously thinking of rehoming him. He looked profoundly shocked then said ‘well I’ll have him if you do’. Basically I have lots of homework to get the stop and recall to a muscle memory type response. And his heel good enough that I can take him as a spare out shooting and work the others and not him while sweeping, at least early season.
On the plus side no need for boot camp on a day to day basis as long as he knows what’s just a walk and what’s training. And on the walk he must be absolutely responsive to any commands.
On the plus side no need for boot camp on a day to day basis as long as he knows what’s just a walk and what’s training. And on the walk he must be absolutely responsive to any commands.
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
Tried the stop and recall and both dogs did it 
will try the left and right
will try the left and right
druid
Well-Known Member
Interesting, technically would this not be passing game? (although I can see the benefits if you need to handle to a runner!)
Morwenna
Well-Known Member
I tried the challenge today with the stop and recall whistle and she was perfect! I don’t have separate commands for left and right but she did manage a side and back cast with just the verbal command. Maybe she’s not such a useless excuse for a gundog after all
Thistle
Well-Known Member
I don't like to ask my dogs to blink a retrieve so I do this but in a different way. I set 2 areas with a blind some distance apart. I then throw a dummy into one of the areas and send the dog. Then send for the blind in that area. 3rd retrieve, send dog back to that area, where they now will hunt as they've already found there twice. Once you can see that they've thouroghly hunted the area stop them and redirect to the second area where there will be a blind waiting as a prize. Dog does as told, stops, handles listens and gets the prize.