Gundogs and training

[Clodagh]

I went to pick up youngest son last week from the shoot he beats on and there was a man there with a lovely 8 month old lab bitch, she was a cracker to look at, well bred and expensive. It is his first gundog. He was sorely disappointed with her as she had failed to find 2 runners he had sent her after. She could tell he was fed up too, she looked really disheartened, as well as over tired. I wonder how long before he decides she is useless? Ours don't work at all at that age, they don't even go to shoots and the first retrives are always real confidence winners. Poor girl.

On another completely different subject, we had a shoot here today and one of the pickers up spaniels tried to catch the chickens. The picker up said they can't tell the difference between chickens and pheasants. I know I haven't had much to do with spaniels bbt I expect any dog to know the difference between domestic and retrievable. There are some funny people about.

 

[lizness]

Seems a shame,I know my OH's sheepdog took till he was nearly 3 to get working really properly they need chance to grow up first. Different game but people just seem to be in such a rush sometimes.
My cocker can definitely tell the difference between pheasants and chickens from day one and he doesn't even work! Pheasants, partridge and grouse interesting everything else not!

 

[Spot_the_Risk]

Eight months! The most ours would be doing is a bit of dogging in on a Sunday morning, more of a dog walk with added scent!

 

[Alec Swan]

I've never yet seen any gun dog which at 8 months was qualified to be out on a day's shooting. Far less in pursuit of runners. There's an old saying in gundog circles, it takes months to make a good dog, and minutes to ruin one.

My dogs know the difference between poultry and game, and so should your person's dogs who's doing the picking up.

Alec.

 

[twiggy2]

poor pup must have been tired and confused, when will people learn to set their dogs up to suceed?

 

[paulineh]

8 months is too young. Mine (Spaniels) do not go on the beat line until they are at least 18 months to 2 years . They will dog in at about a year old but only to get the feel of things. I am lucky to have a very large working pen with different kinds of cover and also woods just the other side of my fields. We have a lot of different kind of game so teaching them to be steady.

 

[Dry Rot]

We used to get the dogs working reliably in a rabbit pen years ago and perhaps let them retrieve a brailed pigeon or two to simulate runners. Nothing was harmed, the young dogs weren't over worked, and they had the basics before going anywhere near a shoot.

Both the above would be considered illegal today, but it is perfectly legal to take an 8 month old pup to a shoot and try it on wounded wild game!

I used to breed and use American Bob White Quail and miniaturised the whole process so it was quite possible to have small pups working naturally on game birds out in the field that would return, like homing pigeons, to their pen after each session! I think they all, both dogs and quail, rather enjoyed it!

 

[Clodagh]

I did wonder if maybe I was just out of touch! Glad to hear its not me its the others.
Our lab did some pigeon roost shooting at 12 months, but very little retrieving.

I didn't like the picker up very much tbh, I don't think she liked me either after I had yelled at her dog and then told her they should know the difference. Our lab wouldn't even chase a pheasant unless she was meant to do so.

I felt sorry for the little btch, but I doubt she would even be worth trying to retrain when he has given up on her, confidence is such a fragile thing. My OH did get a terrier to work though that we were given as she wouldn't go to ground. At 6 months they had shoved her down an earth with a vixen and blocked the entrance so she had to stay in with it. Funnily enough she got a pasting and was then terrified. It took him nearly a whole hunting season of just taking her to digs and letting her watch and then one day she just said 'bingo' and never looked back.

 

[Dizzydancer]

What a shame for the poor dogs.
Some people have no common sense.
Our lab is on his first season this year- he is 2, he has done 3 shoots so far will do couple more this year if he is well enough before season ends but if not he will go out next year. No point rushing them.
The springer Im training is the same this first year out she is 2 but she is inexperienced so is really out as a puppy. She only does certain drives off lead and only those Im happy she won't loose any confidence in.

 

[debsandpets]

Eight months! The most ours would be doing is a bit of dogging in on a Sunday morning, more of a dog walk with added scent!

^ exactly that !!! At 8 months she certainly shouldn't be out and expected to retrieve any runners. Maybe a couple of simple marked retrieves but that would be all, and she would have been kept on a lead while on the shoot also so she didn't do her own thing while everyone else's dogs are doing the work.
Really hope she doesn't end up being passed from pillar to post just because the owner thinks she should be fully trained by now !!!!!

Our dogs had all been along rough shooting with us by 1 year but mostly on lead and again only marked retrieves etc, and they had also been in rabbit pens etc before going onto a proper shoot per se. 2 of our dogs have also had sessions with Simon Tyers (England trialling team member) and got compliments from him asking where they had been trained before we took them to him - I did all of their training myself with the help of a couple of books (Keith moxon for one) and couldn't have been happier with the results of working with Simon

 

[Alec Swan]

8 months is too young. Mine (Spaniels) do not go on the beat line until they are at least 18 months to 2 years . They will dog in at about a year old but only to get the feel of things. I am lucky to have a very large working pen with different kinds of cover and also woods just the other side of my fields. We have a lot of different kind of game so teaching them to be steady.

Spaniels can be the most tricky of dogs. Very often, the pros, the serious trial boys, will have a dog that's achieved FtCh status, before the dog's two years old! The reason for this is that the dog, pre two years old, is that much more amenable. Beyond the age of two years, the dog will become ever more opinionated and difficult, and by the time that it's 4, then trialling is a thing of the past, as the bloody thing's unmanageable!

I've a two year old Cocker bitch here now, who's beyond the stage of trialling, for me anyway. She's that hot and hard going that she's approaching lunatic status, but by God she can find game, and she can retrieve too! According to my collie dog, she's now coming in season. I'm wondering who to use, or even if I should!

Alec.

 

[Inthesticks]

Such a shame, we have 4 working labs and at a year or so old I may take them to watch the last drive on the shoot, not off the lead but to hear what's going on then after they have swept the area we will walk down to the pickers up to mull around the other dogs and people..smell things be social etc. Starting slow has benefits.