Gutted about my young horse and thinking of just giving up

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Patterdale

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Having had diabolical luck with horses for the last few years I decided last year that was all going to change. After yet another went lame and had to go be a pet, I decided I'd buy myself a really nice unspoilt youngster, that id know all the history of and be able to start (and spoil!?) myself.

Got my lovely 3 year old last summer. Started handling and groundwork, went really well. Turned him away and started backing in Feb. Went like a dream, calm and nice about everything. Got him to the stage where he was hacking walk trot and canter happily alone and in company, and then decided to send him to a professional to put the final polish on.

Found someone local who seemed to have a good rep. Got a phone call a few hours later - 'come pick him up, he's dangerous' accompanied by a video of him bucking the professional off. In the vid he just looked panicked. Not very bad bucks. Apparently he just walked around the school then started. I couldn't believe it.

Went to get him then and there. Decided I didn't rate the professional (who shall remain nameless) much. Horse was very tense and not himself. I took him to someone else, who was recommended by a good friend and who it turns out is fantastic. He rode the horse, hacking out for a week and reported that he was very good.

Today he rang and said the horse had panicked and tried to buck him off twice. When he didn't manage it, he bolted. Almost a mile. Trainer said he felt terrified and panicked.

I am gutted and so worried that he's totally ruined somehow (not at all by current trainer who is fab). I've put everything into this horse and I just don't know what to do.

I think fear triggered by pain seems probable? He's having back and teeth done this week. Teeth seems a likely candidate to me?

Does anyone think there's any coming back from this? Trainer days he is a sweet boy and is happy to continue working with him which I'm very grateful for.

I'm just really disheartened :(
 
How disappointing for you. All you can do is start on an elimination process with the vets. Something is obviously catching him and causing great pain. Very best of luck for a speedy resolution.
 
AdorableAlice said:
How disappointing for you. All you can do is start on an elimination process with the vets. Something is obviously catching him and causing great pain. Very best of luck for a speedy resolution.
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I agree with this. It is a very, very similar story to my friend's horse. First pro would not sit on him, said he was too sharp. Second pro backed him with no serious problems. Sudden single buck twice when home made her put him up for sale as too sharp for her. First place rode him with no issues but didn't have the right contacts. Second yard had him two days and said 'fetch him, he's dangerous'. Seen by vet, stifle problem identified and horse has sadly been PTS at six years old. Sorry I have a bad story, I hope yours is better but I would start with a vet unless you find anything obvious.

I have to say I wondered why, when he was working sweetly in walk trot and canter, you decided to send him away to a trainer? Do you think it's possible that subconsciously you have felt something was wrong?
 
ycbm said:
I have to say I wondered why, when he was working sweetly in walk trot and canter, you decided to send him away to a trainer? Do you think it's possible that subconsciously you have felt something was wrong?
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Because I've lost confidence a bit. In my ability - not that I'm scared to ride.
I used to ride for a living and have started many horses who've all gone on to be useful members of society...but I haven't ridden properly for a few years and I was worried I'd ruin him when the 'proper work' started.

In hindsight I should have just kept him as I think the first trainer really upset him :(
 
That makes sense, I have a three year old being backed now who I will send away to have ridden away if I have any doubts.

I understand your annoyance with the first person. Like my friend, you got back a horse in a worse state than you sent, and paid for the privilege!
 
Patterdale said:
What are people opinions on a youngster that's bolted through fear?
Can they ever be trusted again?
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I would have a serious problem ever getting on it. If my current three year old does it, he will be sorted and sold.

From your history, you just didn't need this, did you?
 
Nope! I just really didn't.
Last horse (schoolmaster on loan) - suspected pelvic trouble, sent back
Before that - one I had from 2-6 and broke in, tore his meniscus and still lame after surgery. Gave him away.
Before that - Cushings age 14 (in a tb!) and lami so put down
Before that - cut leg on on fence and infected joint, flushing didn't work so put down
Before that - 1* horse cut leg in field, put down.

I'm seriously wondering.....what's the effing point..!?
 
He's just the nicest boy. His breeding, confirmation and loose jump are fantastic, he has the loveliest nature and was so so easy to break. I just can't understand it.
He's everything I wanted, he was supposed to be a forever horse.

Sorry, moaning on now.
 
Slightly more positive outlook from me. Very similar situation with my Aunt's homebred mare. Super easy to back and work with, very chilled and laid back. Sudden bolting and bucking out of 'nowhere'. Turned out it was her wolf teeth that was bothering her. Took them out and healed up and no problems since. She is now 24 and still a dream :)
 
Patterdale said:
What are people opinions on a youngster that's bolted through fear?
Can they ever be trusted again?
Click to expand...

It depends if you can work out why .
IME horses don’t randomly do things like that they do things for a reason .
I would bet this horse has something hurting I have had horses who where difficult to start but they where diffcult from the start.
Previously easy horses who start with this sort of thing do so for a reason IME.
 
I’ve just had something similar with one of mine - older than yours but he panicked and took off bucking out of nowhere three times, decking his rider. It was the complete opposite of what he was like in the stable and on the ground.

We initially thought ulcers and treated them once they were confirmed but the bucking continued so I asked my vet to do a full performance workup with X-rays - turns out he has kissing spine.

I hope you get to the bottom of the issue. It’s not a nice position to be in.
 
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Goldenstar said:
It depends if you can work out why .
IME horses don’t randomly do things like that they do things for a reason .
I would bet this horse has something hurting I have had horses who where difficult to start but they where diffcult from the start.
Previously easy horses who start with this sort of thing do so for a reason IME.
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I agree, and the problem with young horses that haven't experienced pain or discomfort before, is that their reaction to something sore can be extreme. It's also possible that he has been having discomfort before now, but because he knows and trusts you he hasn't reacted adversely, whereas being with a strange rider in a strange yard, and then being in discomfort, might have prompted such a big reaction the first time.
 
I would get the basics checked- saddle, teeth, basic musculature and chuck him back out in the field for a month or so before slowly re-introducing ridden work. He hasn't been under saddle long and it's possible something is sore and that will settle down, maybe he had a scare at the first pro yard. I think you need to accept that if he does it again he'll need a full work up.
 
Thank you so much for all the replies.

I wasn't sure re turning him away and didn't know whether to suggest it. Could it make things worse when he comes back??

Up until now I've never taken much of a contact until now, just been relaxed hacking on a long rein. Which is why it may not have surfaced with me.
He did have his teeth done before going but a vet I don't know did them and trainer says they look sharp.
 
Did the trainers use your own saddle? I know of an opposite case where the horse was a billy bronco with the owner but good as gold with the trainer. When he came home he was billy bronco again. Owner presumed the trainer had used her saddle - turns out they used their own.

Change of saddle = change of horse outlook.

Other than that I would have the teeth looked at by a different person. A sharp tooth certainly can cause suh a problem.

I also agree with Rowreach that babies who have not experienced pain can be dramatic. I had a baby explode in a huge way when he lost a bit of weight and the saddle nipped against his spine. Never did it again once issue was resolved.
 
Do vet before physio- physio should be asking vet for permission before working on horse anyway. So many horses treated by physio without a (good knowlegdeable equine vet) work up end up jsut prolonging the issue.

Check the physical issues - ifall ok I'd likely restart myself - very veryfew horses are proper bolters.
 
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A friend's recently backed 4 yo went absolutely bonkers out of nowhere, full on bucking rodeo style & bolted through an electric fence, which didn't help matters, & repeated the performance on two or three separate occasions. I was the hacking companion, so witnessed it all. Horse had a sharp tooth that had made an ulcer in its mouth. Tooth sorted & horse never did it again. OMG it was something to watch though - from trundling along quiet as a mouse to lunatic in half a second.
 
catembi said:
Tooth sorted & horse never did it again. OMG it was something to watch though - from trundling along quiet as a mouse to lunatic in half a second.
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Thanks *catembi* - this cheers me slightly..! Obviously not that your friend had problems...!
When I google old threads it seems to be 'once they've bolted just shoot them they'll always be a danger' but I really don't believe he's a bad horse.

Sounds awful but I really hope he does have a sharp tooth, I think that would explain it.

I've been thinking about it all night. I think there's only 4 reasons they do things like this - because they're either naughty, nuts, scared or in pain.
He's not naughty. I don't think he's just a nutter, I've ridden enough of them and he's just not. I don't think he's scared of having a rider on as then it would have happened more often or he'd be tense every time you get on.
Which just leaves pain. I really hope we can get to the bottom of it.
 
My old horse was an absolute lunatic when she was a baby, I cant count the amount of times she got me off by broncing, and I mean rodeoing without any warning, we would have a few good days when i thought it was over then wallop I would be off again I really thought she was a bit unhinged at times, i persevered as never intended to sell no matter what and she turned out to be the most reliable and safe horse I ever had once we got over it all, I had so many years of happiness with her and she even taught my nieces and nephews to ride, i could take her anywhere in the end she was brilliant. I would say just take your time, this may not be successful perfectly in the next few weeks but it will be with the right help and patience hopefully. Good luck x
 
You've got someone you like and trust who is happy to keep working the horse, if they thought at this point it was totally unresolvable they would have sent him back. So I wouldn't be panicing just yet, get checked out and fingers crossed something turns up :).
 
I find it interesting whose judgement we trust and whose we don't.

The current trainer could be stringing it along for the money knowing full well it isn't going to resolve.
The current trainer could be unjustly optimistic.
The first trainer could be right that the horse is dangerous.
The first trainer could simply have been the first rider to push the buttons that caused that reaction.

IME horse that go into orbit are dangerous, it is a dangerous reaction, even if it is pain related.

I would be seeking advice of a very experienced vet before any more ridden work.
 
I have only had one young horse have a bucking fit, we just ignored it and he never did it again.
A one point my daughter went for lesson with a 'pro' for week, because they had an indoor school. My daughter who weighed all of 8 stone, was riding a 16.2 maxi cob with no problems, she could canter him in an open field and pull up in a simple snaffle. The pro wanted to have a go and then proceeded to run the horse ragged until he boiled over and she could not control him, in an indoor school.
Fortunately for us he was a bit thick and the following day my daughter got on, and we set out to let the horse succeed, and the pro stormed off, and the horses reverted to his normal placid self.
I think some pro riders have a point to prove, its about control, pushing the horse to its limits and then being able to handle it. Mere mortals like me avoid trouble, or always make the door open so the easy choice is the correct one. It sounds like you did what most of us do and the pro just wanted to push the buttons and see what it could do. I would bring its home, and start quietly again, ignore the negative, reward the positive and do not put him in a situation where he is stressed and the only way out is to buck.
I have bought an old pony that has learnt that if any one gets antsy with him he bucks them off, a quiet rider he will do anything for.
 
My horse was a complete wackadoodle when backed, he full on rodeoed me off more times than I would care to count and did some outright dangerous things. I was much less experienced with young horses than you sound but I was working with a good physio, saddler and trainer so thought it was just the way he was. He was a bit nuts all the way to being 10 years old.

Looking back now I would have done so much differently, from where I kept him (he was in a field on his own and whilst there were horses around him he didn’t have a herd or direct company to make him content between training sessions, I now know how important that is to his wellbeing). I also believe looking back he had some sort of pain issue that I hadn’t been aware of that I allowed to drag on and on. At age 10 I treated him for sacroiliac injury, ulcers and hayfever and gained a whole new horse. I now hack him out on a loose rein in a bitless bridle and although he can still be a bit daft and hyper and even a bit wild at times, he is amazing to ride. I wish I had fully investigated his health before labelling him as bonkers as I wonder if he had belly ache for a very long time, making him feel permanently stressed and anxious and prone to overreaction.
 
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