Gutted - Laminitis *questions*

H

HaffiesRock

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 August 2011
Messages
4,735
Visit site
Firstly, vet has been called and spoken to and I have dealt with lami in the past so he is getting what he needs.

So a bit of background. Pony is a 15 year old haffy, came out of winter a little ribby and never had lami the 5 years he's owned me. On no hard feed and had last year off work due to my ill health.

Noticed after Christmas that his feet were falling apart (barefoot and very good feet) they flared, split and cracked (farrier every 8 weeks) She came 8 weeks ago and said they were a little dry and as he'd been turned away for a year it was probably due to them not being worked. The last couple of weeks they have lost chunks out of them, but he has been completely sound.

Benji came to me completely obese (like 200kg overweight kind of obese (hes 13.2!)) Lost all the weight and never been unsound. I had my own land and on a few occasions he got into the hay field and gorged himself with no issues.

5 weeks ago I lost my land to a developer so had to move both ponies to livery. Move went fine but the yard just wasn't for me or the ponies. I made the heartbreaking choice to put my mare on loan and moved Benji to a lovely (but expensive) livery round the corner.

We moved on Saturday just gone. The following happened in this order, so could any (or a combination) be a likely cause?

1. Separated from my mare who he has lived with solely for 3 years.He got a bit upset and stressy, but not too bad.
2. Moved to new yard and had to be stabled overnight. Traveled fine, but he is not a fan of stables and I have never stabled him.
3. Given Equest Pramox by the yard (I've never given him this before)
4. He was shouting and pacing when I arrived Sunday morning, but not as bad as I expected.
5. Turned out into a large paddock with grass, and 20 other horses, but no more grass than where he came from.
6. fine yesterday and hooning around although had been beaten up a little. (lots of bite marks)
7. There was a frost last night, but it has never caused issues before.

He was completely sound and trotting around flamboyantly last night.

I get there tonight and instantly know something was wrong. All the others were grazing but he was stood looking sad by a tree with another horse guarding him. He wasn't massively lame but was reluctant to walk and obviously sore. Took him in and checked him over. Pulse in both fronts (not there yesterday, I check religiously), shifting his weight a little and extremely soppy towards me which is so unlike him so I know it was him saying he is sore.

Called vet who said to bute him up and she'll come out tomorrow. Luckily the farrier is due tomorrow at the same time too.

So what are your thoughts? I'm gong to get bloods run as my old haffy had metabolic issues at about the same age.

I am gutted. I am always so careful with lami and keep his weight down. Any thought are very much appreciated x
 
I have heard that some people reckon equest pramox can bring about a laminitic attack. Is this what's on your mind? Or perhaps the equest plus stress?
 
Yes I have had cause to strongly suspect Pramox in the past - with it being a dual wormer - or as cobgoblin says - that plus stress. I think worming is mentioned as a possible contributory factor on the laminitis trust/Robert Eustace website. http://www.laminitisclinic.org/
For that reason I changed to worming separately for tape and so would use equitape and ordinary Equest (or other moxidectin wormer) at different times - as well as worm egg counts.

At least you have caught it early! Don't beat yourself up about it. No matter how vigilant you try to be, you can never control everything. Has he been tested for PPID/cushings? The first test is free. Your vet will most likely suggest it. Please keep us posted and fingers crossed it will be a relatively mild episode. BTW - Another excellent source of info is this site http://ecirhorse.org/. Good luck x
 
Morning all and thanks for the replies. He is much brighter this morning and was shouting for his breakfast (sugar beet for his bute) and moving around the stable more comfortably. His fronts are quite filled but the pulses are no longer raging.

To add to my worry though, he hasn't eaten much hay over night (although he has eaten a bit of straw) and I only found one poo in the stable this morning (did see him poo and took that out last night). No signs of colic, he's calm, bed isn't a mess, no signs of rolling, but the lack of poo is worrying :( I made his sugarbeet more sloppy this morning and warm and he demolished it like he was starving. Took out old hay and replaced with new.

Vet isn't coming until this afternoon so i'll call the staff and ask them to keep an eye on him and nip back up later on this morning, but i'll get them out this morning if he still hasn't pooed by then.

A metabolic problem is in my mind as my old Haffy had lami issues at a similar age so I will be asking the vet to do some bloods. Its just come on so suddenly :) Other than the Pramox and a night in the stable, nothing else has changed (other than the grazing). He's lived out 24/7 on decent grass, been through cold snap nights and sunny mornings all with no problems, so something must have caused/tipped him over the edge.

I'll update you later and thank you for the links. I'll have a read when I get to work. x
 
Have a good read on the Laminitis Site's website - very knowledgeable, lots of well researched information and advice. http://www.thelaminitissite.org/ They have a Facebook group which you can join and ask (and have answered) your questions, always based on science, rather than general opinions. I have found them invaluable for keeping up with the latest information.
If he is going to be on box rest and isn't eating a lot, keep an eye out for stopping altogether, could be impaction colic (mine did :( ) and keep his system moving as much as you can
 
There seems to have been a lot of lami in previously unaffected horses this year :(.

As above, get him checked for Cushings and EMS.

In the meantime, is his hay soaked? The additional water in soaked hay will help prevent impactions whilst he's on box rest, and the soaking reducing the sugar level. Alternatively, consider one of the high fibre/low calorie haylages such as Marksway Hi Fibre haylage, which is recommended for laminitics and comes in 20kg bags. (Expensive at c£6.50 per bag but convenient).

http://www.horsehageforage.co.uk/WP/?page_id=22

Good luck, it seems that you caught it early.
 
Wow, just looked at the Laminitis Clinic website and their protocol for hoof care. That looks like radical surgery to me - anyone had it done and was it successful? Pete Ramey's recommendations look much more sensible to me, and less likely to set up problems in the future (on the Laminitis Site or any of his books/website)
 
cushings must be high on the list. My haffy succumbed to this. In addition to the ACTH test have a look at the symptoms on the thisislaminitis.org site. There are many and it was possible to diagnose my haffy simply by the symptoms, he tested negative.
I realise you are on a yard so they have a worming policy but I never worm him without doing a worm count, I count before doing the necessary equest (although it obviously doesn't show encysted) and I use the equisal for tapeworm. That way I cut down on chemicals

Mine has to live off grass. Good luck with him.
 
Vet and farrier came out together this afternoon. Neither could find any signs of active lami. He was sound and no pulses (but he did have bute this morning) Vet is coming back next week to run bloods as she couldnt get them to the lab in time today. Given no bute tonight to see how he is in the morning. So I am happier on that front and hopeful I caught it super early.

He still isn't passing much in the way of dropping though :( His gut sounds were good and his appetite has picked up tonight. Hes on soaked hay and really sloppy sugarbeet, got to see what happens over night and call them in the morning. He can have a couple of hours out in the fatty paddock tomorrow to hopefully get his gut moving. If no poo he'll be sedated and tubed/rectal exam.

In himself he is fine. His usual cheeky self, and 10 times better than he was last night, but until he poos, I wont rest :(
 
ElleSkywalker said:
*poo vibes*
Click to expand...

There was poo! Only a small one, but it was formed and quite wet :) He seems OK in himself, but not really touched his hay.

I've dropped some pieces of apple n his water bucket an given him a second bucket of water with some apple juice in, so hopefully he'll sample those over night. I'll update in the morning.
 
A couple of thoughts to add. Yout lad was taken from a quiet life with a familiar horse to being chucked out into a large established herd. Huge stress, which can trigger lami in itself. I would question any expensive livery who would do that. Also, the Laminitis trust/website is a moneymaking enterprise not a charity as they would like you to think. Try phoning them for advice if you don't think so. Theirs is but one opinion, I would go with Pete Ramey every time re hoof chopping around.
 
Hi all, well the lami (if that's what is was) seems to have completely gone. There was nothing to note when the vet and farrier came yesterday. He's been out for a few hour today (small paddock) and he positively bounced all the way out, sound as a pound. even over the stoney car park. Came in the same way. No heat anywhere, no pulses, nothing. Just a happy, bouncy pony.

On the poo front he is pooing again now which is a massive relief!

So he is staying in over night on soaked hay and going out for a few hours in the day for the time being. (bloods being taken next week)

Can lami come and go that quickly? Vet/farrier found literally nothing to report and both were very thorough. His feet have had quite a growth spurt the last few weeks and have split and cracked considerably. Farrier is now coming ever 6 weeks instead of 8, but I am at a loss?

Vet Physio is out tomorrow so I'd be interested to see if she has any thoughts or finds anything.

I've moved to this yard to get him back in full work, so I am hoping to do this soon (on the vets say so) but looking at him today, he's never looked so well and sound!

Any thoughts?
 
Fast growing feet, splitting and cracking can be signs that the laminae have lost a little integrity and aren't supporting the coffin bone as they should suggesting subclinical laminitis, according to Pete Ramey, although any inflammation might have gone. I would continue to feed as a laminitic for now, look for heel first landing and check his soles and frogs to see if they are thick enough to support that coffin bone. I think it is all covered on The Laminitis Site http://www.thelaminitissite.org/reading-the-foot.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top