Gutted!!! (sorry, its a long one!)

[amy_b]

I doubt any of you will remember me but for a quick update -
Harvey, mixed breed terrier, 8 yrs, had him since he was a puppy. chased sheep in the summer (has lived around them pretty much all his life without fuss!!) killed one, I rehomed him because I didnt want to risk him escaping accidentally one day, going back and being shot. didnt think that was fair.
rehomed him to a really, really nice lady and he has had a brilliant spoilt life. everybody is happy.
until today!
she has emailed me telling me that he ran off when he was with the dog walked and killed a sheep so she cant keep him because he will have to be kept on a lead which is not why she wanted a dog.
first off Im so glad she did as agreed and has come back to me rather than pass him on to somebody else but I cant help but feel gutted that this has happened, she knew the ins and outs of why I was rehoming him and his history (I got her to sign something saying she knew about it to cover my back in this exact situation!)
obviously Im going to tell her Il have him back but Im not sure where to go from here because the way we 'walk' our dogs is them running round while we do the horses, subsituted with a game of 'flinger'. I dont have time to walk him on a lead twice a day (dont slate me, I got him when I was 16,I now have a grown up job amongst other grown up commitments!)
I dont want to send him somewhere like the dogs trust because I dont want him doing boomerang impressions for the next 10 years and I'l feel like Im dumping him on somebody else.
I dont know if Im being silly about the dogs trust because they clearly rehome lots of happy dogs?! he's a very energetic dog so would be miserable living with me now confined to a lead and snatching time where I can!!
dont know what to do!!!

 

[Maesfen]

The sensible thing maybe?
He's proved he's not to be trusted so why put someone else (if you could even find them) through the same trauma as new owner had. Do the decent thing, it's no life at all for a dog that's been used to freedom to have to be on a lead 100% of the time it's out of the house, it would break his heart and spirit.

 

[YasandCrystal]

What a horrid situation. My only suggestion would be if you could find a proper working home for him, where he is used for ratting and rabbiting. I don't know how easy that would be. I sympathise having a patterdale who is a bit of a git and can only go off lead on my land.

 

[amy_b]

because he is happy if he is walked and given the attention he needs.my problem is I dont have that time.
pts is an option, just seems like such a waste when he is happy and healthy.

Im not sure someone would take him to work when he is as old as he is and isnt safe with sheep.

I would like to reiterate that the new owner did know exactly what had happened and that being the reason for rehoming him

 

[lexiedhb]

Find a home that will keep him on a long line around any livestock, may not be that easy but you found him a home before you can do it again.

 

[CazD]

Oh gosh, how awful. I really feel for you. He is going to be difficult to rehome if he isnt happy being kept on a lead but runs off is he isnt on the lead. Almost anywhere that is safe to let the dog off lead is going to have grazing animals around - unless he can be rehomed to a town home with a park close by maybe?? Would he not be happy being kept on a flexi lead? Our rescue terrier is very scent driven and will just run once she gets a scent. She has to be kept on a flexi lead in the woods as otherwise she would just be gone. She seems happy enough. I do make sure she gets a long off lead walk at weekends to compensate.

 

[amy_b]

No he is fine on a lead, perfectly happy.
The problem with him being lead-bound is that (like most terriers) he has alot of energy and I dont have sufficient time to walk him on a lead twice a day to cater for this.
Maybe I will try to find him somewhere again. Im just so disappointed this has gone to pot after 6 happy months!!

 

[JosieB]

You cannot walk him twice a day so therefore pts is an option. Considering there are thousands of dogs walked off the lead who never come face to face with livestock, mine are two who only see horses, then surely there is a suitable home ou there.
There are sites you can advertise him on without him leaving your home and local rescues may put him on their books despite him staying with you.
I certainly wouldn't pts a dog I had for years just because I couldn't make time to walk him on a long line or try to find a large area nearby when I could walk him once a day with no livestock nearby and then maybe lead walk later.

 

[Dobiegirl]

My last Dobe chased sheep so he was always walked where there was no sheep, this was easier because we had our own land and its mostly cattle country. But once a year a local farmer would put sheep in his field adjourning ours so my dog was always kept on the lead.

Having seen the results of sheep worrying my sympathies are totally with the farmer and if it means keeping our dog on the lead so be it. A long line is a good substitute and they can hoon around just as well and tire themselves out.

Its a shame it didnt work out with the new owner but there are lots of dogs out there who cannot be let off the lead for all sorts of reasons so Im sure a home could be found for him in the right location.

 

[MrVelvet]

you say your dogs exercise themselves when you are doing the horses? Could you not incorporate the little dog into this somehow? Could you tie up with a long line/flexi lead? is there anywhere secure you could 'turn him out' like an indoor school? Are there even any livestock round there? or are you just frightened he will escape to find the livestock?

I agree that it's a bit of a waste really but then also agree that it would be the sensible thing to do if you cannot give him a home. I would think it would be hard to find him a working home as a ratter or rabbiter at his age (I dont know though!)

Not a nice situation to be in. Hope you resolve it soon. If it helps my dog is very much prey driven, I wouldn't trust her near any livestock (I dont think she'd kill, but definitely chase) I manage, I have about 5 fields that I use when livestock isn't in them, we play with a ball and it works for us

 

[2Greys]

Perhaps try move/rehome him to an area with little sheep possibly with help of a rescue. We've few sheep locally and when i lived in the fens it was mainly crops, plus urban areas would probably mean that livestock would be a infrequent issue. I do think its sad that someone taking on a known sheep killer, isn't willing to put him on a lead. My own dogs need to stay on lead during walks and many other owners are happy to use long lead/flexi to avoid bogging off incidents.

 

[amy_b]

Considering there are thousands of dogs walked off the lead who never come face to face with livestock, mine are two who only see horses,

If he is off the lead he could run off and find some sheepies.

you say your dogs exercise themselves when you are doing the horses? Could you not incorporate the little dog into this somehow? Could you tie up with a long line/flexi lead? is there anywhere secure you could 'turn him out' like an indoor school? Are there even any livestock round there? or are you just frightened he will escape to find the livestock?

no where to 'turn him out' tying up is an option but doesnt really exercise him, the long line is the best idea.

 

[noodle_]

can you not attach him to you when you do the horses??? obvs being careful when bringing in etc...

gives him exercise but still on lead??

i have no issue with keeping dogs on leads - mine is - she is a crackpot and chases after birds in spring so shes on a flexi lead and let off when safe to do so.

just a thought?

 

[amy_b]

can you not attach him to you when you do the horses??? obvs being careful when bringing in etc...

gives him exercise but still on lead??

good idea...

 

[Ranyhyn]

JosieB it is a great sentiment to say that however, it's a pretty big risk to take for the dog - again. You could say three strikes and he's out.. if you have ever seen a dog especially a small one shot by a farmer you'd probably be more likely to be more pro euthanasia.
It's a very hard situation, not one I'd like to be in.
Have you got anyone locally who might help you out? Just to make sure my terriers knew what side their bread was buttered they were put in with our rams (we have a huge texel ram who can do some serious damage if the dogs don't pee off) and our ballsiest ewes and now they wont even look our sheep in the face!

 

[noodle_]

A BooBC said - but add to that a spray collar on a button - you may have a winner

head for sheep - spray - - dont respond - butted by sheep - another spray - if message not recieved then issues but that could be worth a shot????

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I doubt any of you will remember me but for a quick update -
Harvey, mixed breed terrier, 8 yrs, had him since he was a puppy. chased sheep in the summer (has lived around them pretty much all his life without fuss!!) killed one, I rehomed him because I didnt want to risk him escaping accidentally one day, going back and being shot. didnt think that was fair.
rehomed him to a really, really nice lady and he has had a brilliant spoilt life. everybody is happy.
until today!
she has emailed me telling me that he ran off when he was with the dog walked and killed a sheep so she cant keep him because he will have to be kept on a lead which is not why she wanted a dog.
first off Im so glad she did as agreed and has come back to me rather than pass him on to somebody else but I cant help but feel gutted that this has happened, she knew the ins and outs of why I was rehoming him and his history (I got her to sign something saying she knew about it to cover my back in this exact situation!)
obviously Im going to tell her Il have him back but Im not sure where to go from here because the way we 'walk' our dogs is them running round while we do the horses, subsituted with a game of 'flinger'. I dont have time to walk him on a lead twice a day (dont slate me, I got him when I was 16,I now have a grown up job amongst other grown up commitments!)
I dont want to send him somewhere like the dogs trust because I dont want him doing boomerang impressions for the next 10 years and I'l feel like Im dumping him on somebody else.
I dont know if Im being silly about the dogs trust because they clearly rehome lots of happy dogs?! he's a very energetic dog so would be miserable living with me now confined to a lead and snatching time where I can!!
dont know what to do!!!

A city/town owner would be ideal for him. No threat of sheep there! Although he may change his preference to the neighbourhood cats I would contact The Dogs Trust, just for some advice if anything. put the word out amongst friends/relatives, vets etc that he needs a home away from livestock. Good luck, i hope you manage to find him a safe, permanent home.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Agree, get him an urban home where his drive could be directed into something like jogging, biking or agility.
I rehomed a JRT/Foxhound/Lab mix who was a chaser and was inciting our GSD to chase to a rural setting and I think she is now around 12 years old and still living the life of riley.
No offence to noodle but if he has killed then a spray in the face is unlikely to stop him x

 

[SusieT]

try dogpages forum for rehoming

 

[noodle_]

No offence to noodle but if he has killed then a spray in the face is unlikely to stop him x

none taken, was just a suggestion

 

[foxy1]

The sensible thing maybe?
He's proved he's not to be trusted so why put someone else (if you could even find them) through the same trauma as new owner had. Do the decent thing, it's no life at all for a dog that's been used to freedom to have to be on a lead 100% of the time it's out of the house, it would break his heart and spirit.

I think this is a very sensible reply. There are fates worse than death.

 

[hunting mad]

I am not saying if this is right or wrong,or if it will work,so dont shot me down......
Put the dog in a pen with a ewe and lamb.

 

[amy_b]

Im quite confident that the spray wont work with him.
he became dog aggresive at about 2 and the way he acted in those days was awful, a little spray on the snout wouldnt stop him. He did come through that with training though....
I have heard the idea of putting them in with sheep/rams and can believe it works but I think he would still go for it so he would have to be muzzled...and im not sure there would be any point anyway because I would never trust him around sheep again. if I do get him back its worth trying some of these ideas

 

[CAYLA]

Some folk do actually do as instructed upon rehome (keeping dog on lead) but you really have to be sure as some folk say anything you want to hear when they want something.
We have successfully rehomed dogs where they need to be kept on lead for possibly majority of the time inc greyhounds, a s.b.t and a lab the latter for sheep worrying. We did work on them with general recall so they would be allowed off in low risk areas but would not then bog off further looking for their preferred target but they had it drummed into them that in "high risk areas" lead at all times.

So you could either source a new home, pay for a trainer to come in and see if they can train him around stock and keep him, or if you feel the need then pts. I would not do the latter till I had exhausted the rest to be honest, esp if he is well behaved in every other way.
There are indeed fates worse then death and fates worse then being exercised on lead.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The 'put 'em in a pen with an angry sheep' thing works on youngsters and less drivey dogs, a dog that has killed twice already will be a different kettle of fish - just my opinion though and I am not trying to rain on people's parades, it's just I would hate for people to rely on these things and then the worst might happen. Vigilance/control is the most important thing with stock chasers.

 

[Inthemud]

Could you rearrange your life round a bit to squeeze in time for lead walks?

Could you hire a dog walker to lead walk for you?

 

[gunnergundog]

IF you are unable to rehome him satisfactorily and IF you are unable to keep him yourself and therefore IF you are going to have him PTS, this would probably be one of the very few/only circumstances in which I would consider an e-collar. This would be WITH the help of a humane/experienced trainer in using such a tool and with a PROPER acclimatisation/familiarisation period with the collar; an experienced trainer will assess the dog for suitability temperament wise as well BEFORE whipping out the collar.

There are very few people that I know who use such a tool intelligently; I could point you to someone in Wiltshire who may be able to help if that was of any use.

 

[RedRum13]

See if your hunt terrier man would have a use for him... might be a better way of life for him!

 

[Ranyhyn]

Well I can only give advice based on my terriers and my sheep and what worked for me. I'm not a dog trainer, I just own terriers a farm and sheep!

Faced with zero stimulus from the prey object my terriers didn't have a chance to switch ON. Suddenly their position in the scheme of things had changed this animal wasn't prey any more. No stimulus, no instinct to kick in, no interest piqued, no blood pumping.. just a breeze block pen and the sheep. It was amazing to see the difference in their posture, their demeanour and their body language compared to how they had been out in the field with the sheep.

The moment they moved in a manner which the sheep deemed unacceptable they were trampled, butted, rammed - all sorts. The only thing that held a reprieve was crouching in the corner giving no eye contact.

Now the same dogs that would chase the sheep now won't look at them, go around them rather than past them Their drive and game is exactly the same, it's just now they associate the sheep with something else, something far more high value to them clearly than the value of chasing them Their memory of gay abandon, chasing the fluffies had been replaced by the memory of being trampled and winded. I can only describe the face they wear now as "sick"

Like ANY training method no one thing works for every dog, however I think a good fear of the prey animal they are chasing does go a long way to helping the cause and don't think it'll do any harm in any way and it worked for me. So maybe as part of everything it might help your dog?

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm not a dog trainer either (I have dogs, which I attempt to train ) but I do live in sheep country my worry would be that if this dog has killed two sheep already, putting it in a pen with a sheep would be very dangerous for the sake of an experiment (although appreciate the OP says the dog would be muzzled and I suppose anything is worth a try).
Also agree with GunnerGundog, the user Inky&Sunny/Babycham/whatever they are called now had a recommendation for a guy who used e-collars properly (not BAD DOG - ZAP!) for stock-proofing but again you would need to be watching the dog properly all the time to make it work and not leave it unattended.