gutted !!! Ulcers are back...now what??

[soulfull]

After my happy post in CR I'm gutted to now report that I am certain Emils ulcers are back I have suspected it for a while but in all honestly have not wanted to think about it.
however the symptoms are now too much like last time to ignore

what I cannot understand is why they have returned. He always has forage available 24/7. has alfa and a low starch balancer with speedi beet. added magnesium

hasn't had any changes at all. no travelling. only competed on own yard, and always low key!

What the heck do I do now????

I have looked at different supplements but the cheapest I have found that actually has a good rep is well over £1.50 a day Obviously I will pay this if I have to, but long term it will mean giving up competing(can't afford both), which for me is the reason I have him

I'm also thinking that there probably is no point in keeping my lorry as if the ulcers have returned without him ever stepping foot on the ramp, then we have no chance of ever travelling to competitions

 

[Pidgeon]

What's his daily routine, feeding and exercise as well? Got to be something that's caused it to come back.

 

[philamena]

Ugh how depressing! Try not to be too downbeat about the travelling / competing thing. We're only just understanding these blummin things and it's perfectly possible his are not going to be exacerbated by going off and doing things.

What is it that makes you so sure they're back?

 

[soulfull]

it does vary slightly. in at night out in day

either
fed, exercised, turned out, fed in over night

or fed turned out, fed, exercised, in overnight. either way has the same turn out time. he is never last one in.

always fed around the same time. always has forage available hay in field too

2 theories why they came back could be

1) treatment wasn't long enough, although scope was clear, maybe should have reduced treatment more slowly?

2) reduced immune system, as he has also had a bad cough over the last 3 weeks. which have needed several lots of AB's and steroids.

Although I honestly think he was showing signs long before he got the cough. so maybe had a reduced immune system causing both. if so why?

you can't imagine I am understandably upset

 

[daveismycat]

Speaking strictly as a small animal vet... the steroids could well be implicated. Worth chatting to your own vet before panicking though.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

My horse is on 1/3 dose of egusin SLH which reduces the cost dramatically.....I did one tub at full dose, one at half and now maintain on the 1/3 dose.he is doing really really well on it .

 

[soulfull]

Speaking strictly as a small animal vet... the steroids could well be implicated. Worth chatting to your own vet before panicking though.

thanks!! just did a google and it showed up quite a lot. so i am hoping

My horse is on 1/3 dose of egusin SLH which reduces the cost dramatically.....I did one tub at full dose, one at half and now maintain on the 1/3 dose.he is doing really really well on it .

that too is interesting, I could live with that where do you buy yours from?


I am also wondering if they could have been lingering from his post GG scope and niggling away, only to be bought to a head by the steroids

 

[deicinmerlyn]

Aswell as the steroids and antibiotics, is he suffering low grade pain somewhere?

 

[TarrSteps]

The problem with using 'scientific method' at this point is the antibiotics and steroids - not to mention a serious enough infection to warrant that level of intervention - is going to skew your data. Both meds have the potential to affect the stomach, especially in an already compromised horse.

Couple of options . . .one is to retreat and try to get him back where he was, the other is to let things settle down and see if he can sort himself out on his own now he's off the meds. You could look at an ulcer supplement and/or a probiotic short term - although the jury is still out - to get him through this patch.

 

[HappyHooves]

Poor you, and poor horse. Also have an ulcer horse. On GG full dose for weight for 4 weeks and rescoped. Ulcers 95% gone so GG reduced to 150 kg mark ( horse 620kg) for the next 4 weeks. Scoping again in 4 months. I keep an eye on all research re ulcers. Latest one on TheHorse.com suggests that egusin and egusin slh are as good as GG post ulcer diagnosis. http://www.thehorse.com/articles/31269/two-supplements-effects-on-nonglandular-ulcers-aaep-2012 You might need to register to see the full article otherwise pm me.
I have very little faith in a lot of the others.
I would check with your vet about the AB's and steroids.

 

[SCMSL]

Soulfull, I feel your pain!

However, I wouldn't panic just yet. The steroids may very well have set the ulcers off again, when my horse was first diagnosed with grade 4 ulcers back in June, vet said we had to make sure to stay as far from steroids as possible.

Also another thing to consider is hind gut issues. There is no definite diagnosis for colitis but I've read ulceration in the gut can be quite harmful for the horse's digestive system and have impact on their stomach.

My horse was diagnosed with grade 4 ulcers in June and were back again in January, despite my best efforts. I'm changing her to an even lower starch feed, but last time the vet was in, his words were "some horses are just more prone to serious ulceration than others, and those should be kept on 1/4 dose of omeprazole for their entire competitive life". I have been using Abgard since January to treat the ulcers as its much cheaper and actually works (have scoped before after using this product). The horse will be going in for another scope at the end of the month and if the ulcers are cleared out, I'll keep her at 1/4 dose.

 

[Pidgeon]

Sorry D, dozed off on the sofa! The steroids would be enough to set them off again TBH. Trust me been through it myself with too many steroids for bad chest infection, screwed my stomach up for months Can you treat again once he's over the cough and then see how it goes? Like I said bearing in mind you'd cracked it and no signs seen, something had to set it off again. Whenever I have AB's and steroids for a chest infection now, as soon as finished I start a course of probiotics to put my stomach back to normal. hang in there.

 

[twinkle]

Replied on the same post in the tack room

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Forage plus

 

[soulfull]

Thank you all!
Scmsl. Thank you for such a long reply. Very useful info and wish u luck
S. that is good to know. Let's hope that is all it is
He had his GG tonight and although he was unhappy being tacked up, he was fine to ride inc canter. Which is good as he needs exercise to clear his lungs

Blooming horses!!

 

[tinkerbell88]

I would definitely recommend protexin acid ease as a maintenance supplement for ulcers. I have 4 on the yard on it including one who has been treated for ulcers with a course of gastroguard and his symptoms started to return so I put him on this product after a friend raved about it and in a few weeks we had a happy settled horse back. They are also in the process of slighty altering the product to include amino acids. I cannot recommend it highly enough!

 

[MagicMelon]

Why not try turning him out 24/7? I've done this with one of mine who I suspect has ulcers and his general temp has changed no end, he was a bit of a nutter when I first got him and pretty unhappy, he's so chilled now its amazing. Only other stuff he gets is Alfa A and speedi-beet (Ive cut out his conditioning cubes as didnt think they were helping) and as much hay as he wants.

 

[dressagelove]

I second the egusin. Used it on my lad and had brilliant results.

PS- Interesting about the maintenance on it though, which tub do you maintain on, the first treatment tub, or the second follow up tub? How much does it work out at each day if you know?

 

[scots]

24/7 turnout if possible would be good as even if you think horse is settled Is Stable it's against nature for them not to move as much.
I have only started to notice symptoms with mine since stabled at night - and has massive haybar full of haylage so always has something to eat (can't have hay - coughs)

 

[soulfull]

Unfortunately 24 hour turn out just isn't an option
Will look at the protexin tho

 

[Hedwards]

It may be worth contacting Slinky Unicorn on here about Alltec Lifeforce, its specifically formulated to help digestion (as well as being an allround supplement) Have my ulcer boy on it (recently finished his 1st course of GG) and so far so good.

 

[soulfull]

Phil sorry. I missed the part where u asked his symptoms
Girthy, even with rugs tried to bite me when I put saddle on and he isn't like that! Finally didn't want to canter when he has new really enjoying his canter work. All identical to last time

Spoke to vet. She has given him another course of GG.

 

[soulfull]

Hedwards. I brefiely looked at that, what does it cost a month?

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

I have PM'd you