H&H Star letter - overweight / judges comments

Ibblebibble said:
if people keep seeing fat horses being placed above ones with less weight then people are going to think that it is better for a show pony/horse to be fat,or think that it's the only ay they're going to get placed. really it is the judges who are maintaining this trend of obesity and until they start refusing to place obese animals then nothing will change:(
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Indeed!
I was present last year when a judge was discussing her own youngster (for some reason this woman was not showing that year) "She's looking super just now but I'll have to get more weight on her before I can show her". I could hardly believe my ears.
 
PERFECT!!!

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I have just refused a horse to go on loan as I strongly suspect the people, lovely and pretty much everything I want for the horse, are feeders for showing. The mare was going to be aimed at dressage, but they still show (and successfully) in flat classes. They didn't seem to want to defend themselves against my opinion that to win they had to carry more condition than is necessary or wise, so I decided against it.

I have seen shocking evidence of the actions of a TOP producer's actions on a cosmetic blemish resulting in a very beautiful and kind horse losing it's life to laminitis as the steroids were administered whilst the horse was being fed in preparation for HOYS. Dead to laminitis at just 5 years old. ********g criminal.

I despise all who overfeed and if I were a judge, I'd say I couldn't possibly give rosettes out because all the competitors animals were too blddy fat!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. My fave rant.

RIP all those horses and ponies whose owners have been too stupid or ignorant or deliberately cruel and overfed them.

Anyone got access to the letter? I stopped subscribing to H&H when they put a load of fat horses on the front cover and were singing their praises.
 
Yes and does anyone remember that feature a few years ago about that show cob... forgot the name (I'm getting old). It was a peibald and it was grossly obese.

Yet, there it was, double page spread in H&H about how to get THAT perfect!!!
 
tallyho! said:
Yes and does anyone remember that feature a few years ago about that show cob... forgot the name (I'm getting old). It was a peibald and it was grossly obese.

Yet, there it was, double page spread in H&H about how to get THAT perfect!!!
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That would be The Humdinger who scored a perfect 100 at HOYS or RIHS? Can't remember which. 50 for ride - manners, performance, way of going. and 50 for conformation - clean limbed, well covered, well built. Yes he could have had a little weight stripped off him but he was by no way the heftiest there.

And now I am going to get shot down in bright orange and red flames :D I think the little skewbald pony above could do with a little weight on to go into winter with ...
 
I took my mare to a show a couple of months ago and the judge placed her 2nd and 3rd. She commented on how well conditioned my mare was and how well muscled she was....... She wasnt nearly in enough work to have muscle! she was fat! and id happily admit it! she is much slimmer now in more work and muscley, but when she commented on her muscle i was abit shocked, and very nearly said, that isnt muscle love, thats fat! And thats about my own horse haha! Hunters and cob classes are the worst for it.
 
I heard Robert Eustace talk about the problems of obesity in showing quite a long time ago (probably 10 years or so now). A lady in the audience, who turned out to be Jennie Loriston Clarke, asked, as a kind of rhetorical question, what a judge should do if all the animals in the lineup were overweight. Eustace replied 'Madam, you should send them all home'.
It obviously hasn't happened yet though.
 
People confuse weight with condition or 'type' its the same in the dog world and the chicken showing world and probably beyond that

Just because an animal or bird is described as 'stocky' or 'heavily built' in the standards this doesnt mean weight

I also admired that old pic in the back of last weeks H&H of the show horse some decades ago
 
The horse we brought from a riding school was kept fat to keep him quiet and better behaved for the novice riders plonked on his back!! Needless to say he's now lost weight and can move. But to put a animal at risk for that reason is shocking!!
 
EKW said:
That would be The Humdinger who scored a perfect 100 at HOYS or RIHS? Can't remember which. 50 for ride - manners, performance, way of going. and 50 for conformation - clean limbed, well covered, well built. Yes he could have had a little weight stripped off him but he was by no way the heftiest there.

And now I am going to get shot down in bright orange and red flames :D I think the little skewbald pony above could do with a little weight on to go into winter with ...
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Ah yes! The Humdinger... on the tip of my tongue! I'm horrified to read there were even fatter ones... *bangs head on wall*

Prepare... I'm about to shoot you right down missus... that pony is fine. The winters we get here won't kill that pony... I've seen skinnier ponies on Dartmoor that come out of winter alive and kicking.
 
Supertrooper said:
The horse we brought from a riding school was kept fat to keep him quiet and better behaved for the novice riders plonked on his back!! Needless to say he's now lost weight and can move. But to put a animal at risk for that reason is shocking!!
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What about his poor joints?? :(
 
I don't know how judges can tell the conformation of a horse that's obese! Conformation is based on the skeleton of the horse, how you can see that when the horse is a blubbery whale with a crest the size of Everest who knows.

I saw a picture of is it The Philanderer? The riding horse champion and I actually thought what a beautiful horse, yes he was perfectly conditioned but he looked FIT. I've been to some county shows where one or two of the competitors actually waddled, it was horrendous but luckily they were in the minority.
 
Tallyho - that and laminitis - the riding school believed that horses can't get laminitis!!!! Thank god he's out of there now
 
Supertrooper said:
Tallyho - that and laminitis - the riding school believed that horses can't get laminitis!!!! Thank god he's out of there now
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Quite. Gosh that's scary. In the 80's whenI was in PC with friends, I can't remember seeing a "fat" pony like we do so often now.

I wish I could post a photo of the horse M is turned out with - shocking. Humdinger... eat your heart out. Owner doesn't care... thinks it's skinny. If I called anyone, they will just say he's looked after (by me!!!) and shod - only time owner sees it when farrier comes - unridden btw not retired. It's a 600kg 14.2 Welsh. I weightaped him and he was off the scale. How he hasn't got lami I do NOT know, he must have a dozen Angels watching over him.
 
As has been said, obesity is a welfare issue. Sadly, it seems no longer just confined to the show ring. I have been at a number of showjumping events recently and have witnessed an alarming increase in the number of horses that I would consider to be obese. The stress that must be being placed on their joints on taking off and landing must be enormous. What's the point? A jumper should be an athlete, fit, streamlined and well-muscled.
 
EKW said:
Stand a dainty Sec A next to a chunky Sec A - the chunky one will look obese for the pure fact that is just bigger built. Fells and Dales are supposed to be chunky power packs.

Surely someone who knows what they are looking at e.g. a judge can tell the difference between chunky and fat? I know I can!

And now I am going to get shot down in bright orange and red flames :D I think the little skewbald pony above could do with a little weight on to go into winter with ...
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We are only at the beginning of August that skewbald has to get through the rest of August and the September grass flush before it goes into winter
 
Weight tapes are not acurate at all. I put my horse on a weigh bridge and he stood at 576kg. I put the tape on him and it said he was 550kg. They are good for monitoring and keeping check of weight but i wouldn't take them as gospel.
 
Before you all get on yjjr bad judge bandwagon the nps summer champs have a no fat policy. So fat horses are never in the top 4.
 
I totally aggree. The ponies are hugely overweight but the judge just turns a blind eye to that fact and makes up other excusses to back up his/her choice of reasons why they placed that pony first. Poor ponies.
 
EKW said:
Weight tapes are not acurate at all. I put my horse on a weigh bridge and he stood at 576kg. I put the tape on him and it said he was 550kg. They are good for monitoring and keeping check of weight but i wouldn't take them as gospel.
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Absolutely and the weightape I used on H was for monitoring my boy... it was out of interest as he was so fat...

If what you say is an indication of that innacuracy... this 14.2 pony would be 640kg something????

Flippin' bananas... :eek:
 
shadowboy said:
Before you all get on yjjr bad judge bandwagon the nps summer champs have a no fat policy. So fat horses are never in the top 4.
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That's interesting because from what I have seen of the results so far there are more than a handful in the top line ups that would come in at "Fractionally" more than the optimum weight!

Pearl - yes most people would be able to tell the difference between the dainty one and the chunky one but your average horse person that doesn't necessarily deal with Welshies etc. would be more likely to tell you that one is fat and the other isn't. I was just using them as an example.
 
I haven't read the letter. However, my thoughts.

I hate fat horses. I do a lot of stewarding and every single judge I have stewarded for this year has made a comment about fat ponies and marked/placed them down accordingly. IMO, the message is slowly but surely getting across. Obviously there are still fat horses and some fuddy duddy old judges who think they look great, but the topic of discussion at every judges/stewards/society conference I've been to in the past few years has been the overweight debate.

This is aimed at no one at all in particular, but a lot of the people I've met who moan about how terrible show horses are really have no idea about showing or production. Obviously a grossly overweight horse is a grossly overweight horse, and it doesn't take a horsewoman to realise that something with lumps of fat that grunts when it trots is disgusting. However, so many people have the same old story: 'I took my Dobbin to a show and the judge placed him last and said he needed more weight on! How dare they!' Dobbin turns out to be a perfectly acceptable riding club horse, but an ugly example of a show horse who lacks muscle, a good way of going and is no particular type. I'm sure I've seen pictures of some of Jayne Webbers cobs out for the winter on nothing at all, with no rugs on, all hairy and unfed and they are STILL massive animals with great big hindquarters and a lot of bone - because they are fabulous examples of cobs! These horses are hunted and worked properly and develop super muscle in all the right places. A sleek, well muscled show horse, like so many of them are (particularly good examples at HOYS), is a sight to behold, produced for it's job to perfection. They just don't look like everyone elses at home rideabouts. It's difficult to compare that shetland type to a show horse - I'm assuming it isnt in any work, so has no good muscle over its topline or hindquarters, plus it isn't quality enough to be a serious show animal anyway (sorry).

I also hear a lot of "Look at that show horse! I bet it'll be dead within a year" - well, I work with a lot of them and none of mine have died from some terrible disease despite being big winners. They are well muscled and well covered, much better covered than some of the riding club cobby types or showjumpers that other local people have, but by no means overweight or in any kind of danger. The vast majority of show horses come out season after season. You watch The Humdinger out strutting his suff - he's been a big winner for a few years now and despite being 'grossly overweight' according to those on here, I'm fairly sure he was no problem careering round the main ring at GYS/RIHS as well as doing fun things at home - his rider comes on here, perhaps you'd like to discuss his condition with her, I'm 100% sure they are not placing his life in danger.
 
Have to say I'm LOL at those saying that the horse The Philanderer (sp) looked very well & fit, but thought that The humdinger was obese (not imo, I do NOT think he was obese, and as a cob is hardly going to have the physique of a TB) - considering they are both owned by the same person :p

As for fat show horses - yes, I agree there are too many obese ones (there was a highland in H&H that was, quite frankly, twice the size of a normal one) but those that are getting supremes etc. are in perfect condition ;)
 
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I have spent the last two days there in the m&m classes. My pony has a big grass gut and wasarled down in every class because of it. One steward tolde about the policy they have asked judges to stick too this year. So instead of the usual top 4 placing he has had in every class we have done so far he ended up with a 5th and 6th- the judges -all three said it was due to his grass gut. That I have spent Montana trying to shift to no avail. I also saw a famous face's Connie not place as it was big.
 
A weighbridge/machine at every show. I know it's not foolproof but it might shake some people up. There must be some general rule of thumb for height and build. Hell, I might be even tempted to show!
 
Teagreen you've never ridden a Shetland then :P

No to be fair Shetlands aren't in the same league as Hunters and Riding Horses and the likes but a good type of anything will hold it's own in the show ring. Bigger horses always have a bigger precence because there is more of them to see, they are more elegant and their physical build allows them more grace and more ability of movement than a midget pony.
 
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