weevil
Well-Known Member
Haven't seen what posts but some people did get a bit heated so I would guess that anything that may count as defamatory will have been edited out.
H&H today - Amy Tryon
- Thread starter Weezy
- Start date
SecretSquirrell379
Well-Known Member
All I can say is what a load of clap trap.
MP is obviously looking at a different video, maybe the royals get a different view
Sparky was obviously totally lame, I cried my eyes out watching the video of it and just thinking about it makes me want to cry again. He carried on for her and her alone, he wanted to stop but she pushed him on and on, she is bang out of order and didn't give a flying fig for Sparky at all. I can not understand why 'the powers that be' can not see what is blindingly obvious
I am sure that ZP will see it for what it is, she does not seem to wear the blinkers that MP wears, I hope so anyway, I'll be very disappointed to find out otherwise.
I am sure the H&H will be inundated with letters from readers, hopefully ours will make it next week, they must be aware of our thoughts
MP is obviously looking at a different video, maybe the royals get a different view
I am sure that ZP will see it for what it is, she does not seem to wear the blinkers that MP wears, I hope so anyway, I'll be very disappointed to find out otherwise.
I am sure the H&H will be inundated with letters from readers, hopefully ours will make it next week, they must be aware of our thoughts
kildalton
Well-Known Member
There's a post by lec above one of yours in the AT video thread on the 30th.
Sooty
Well-Known Member
All I can say is that the people who came up with those comments were watching a different video from the one I saw. Sometimes, it would be nice if H&H came off the fence!
spaniel
Well-Known Member
Hear Hear.
Im furious reading that 'comment' this morning, it seems to be all 'Amy said this' and 'Amy said that'. We dont need examples of other riders who have carried on when their horse took a mistep - what we need is for someone to have the balls to say this was abuse.
Was very pleased to read on here a post from a US rider (Im sorry I have forgotten your name, forgive me) who reports that fellow competitors watching on monitors were screaming at AT to pull up.
God help the FEI members.....
Im furious reading that 'comment' this morning, it seems to be all 'Amy said this' and 'Amy said that'. We dont need examples of other riders who have carried on when their horse took a mistep - what we need is for someone to have the balls to say this was abuse.
Was very pleased to read on here a post from a US rider (Im sorry I have forgotten your name, forgive me) who reports that fellow competitors watching on monitors were screaming at AT to pull up.
God help the FEI members.....
weevil
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes, it would be nice if H&H came off the fence!
[/ QUOTE ]
Haven't seen H&H today but if they are trying to be neutral then why did they try to whitewash this and only publish MP's comments supporting Amy Tryon. On the HHO website they invited people to "join the debate" on this forum and yet the actual magazine only published one side of this "debate".
Sometimes, it would be nice if H&H came off the fence!
[/ QUOTE ]
Haven't seen H&H today but if they are trying to be neutral then why did they try to whitewash this and only publish MP's comments supporting Amy Tryon. On the HHO website they invited people to "join the debate" on this forum and yet the actual magazine only published one side of this "debate".
spaniel
Well-Known Member
To be fair to H+H we may have missed the print date for this weeks mag.
sunflower
Well-Known Member
Haven't read the rest of this thread so apologies if I repeat anything. Have just read H&H and I am FURIOUS. Do they think we're stupid? Mark Phillips column...
[ QUOTE ]
The horse started to tire coming up the last hill. Amy felt him take a false step - she said it felt like he trod on a shoe. She said he picked up and locked on to the last fence, and that she felt it was less dangerous to jump the last fence than try to pull off it, as there was string on both sides of the course.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry - it is plain for everyone to see that that horse did not pick up and lock on to the fence. He was practically begging to stop. As for the string on both sides - yes there was but it was not touching the edges of the fence. There is plenty of room to go round the fence ffs.
And as for this
[ QUOTE ]
I was therefore dissapointed that the ground jury chose to follow the letter of the law and disqualify her from the event...rather than the spirit of the law
[/ QUOTE ]
Words fail me. Aren't these laws there to protect the horses and shouldn't that be the priority as they cannot speak for themselves or defend themselves. I appreciate that he has to be seen to be supporting the US team and riders but even so. ...
STOP TREATING US LIKE IDIOTS OVER THIS
[ QUOTE ]
The horse started to tire coming up the last hill. Amy felt him take a false step - she said it felt like he trod on a shoe. She said he picked up and locked on to the last fence, and that she felt it was less dangerous to jump the last fence than try to pull off it, as there was string on both sides of the course.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry - it is plain for everyone to see that that horse did not pick up and lock on to the fence. He was practically begging to stop. As for the string on both sides - yes there was but it was not touching the edges of the fence. There is plenty of room to go round the fence ffs.
And as for this
[ QUOTE ]
I was therefore dissapointed that the ground jury chose to follow the letter of the law and disqualify her from the event...rather than the spirit of the law
[/ QUOTE ]
Words fail me. Aren't these laws there to protect the horses and shouldn't that be the priority as they cannot speak for themselves or defend themselves. I appreciate that he has to be seen to be supporting the US team and riders but even so. ...
STOP TREATING US LIKE IDIOTS OVER THIS
jesterfaerie
Well-Known Member
Is there a video of this?
I haven't seen it but it sounds absolutly horrible!
Any rider should be able to know when their horse is not right and pull up, to be on the safe side!
I would rather lose a competition than my horse!
I haven't seen it but it sounds absolutly horrible!
Any rider should be able to know when their horse is not right and pull up, to be on the safe side!
I would rather lose a competition than my horse!
djones87us
New User
Like many around the world, I was watching Rolex Kentucky live that morning via the internet. The FEI has opened an investigation, and has the power to pass judgment and punishment, up to and including a lifetime ban on participating in the sport. As members of the riding and eventing community we have to trust that they will be fair, yet aggressive in enforcing what should be our collective commitment to the highest standards in treating our equine partners.
The decisions made by Mrs. Tryon in those seconds after the horse went head bobbing lame following the penultimate jump, and the dramatic implications for her horse, deserve much scrutiny, and a thorough if yet uncomfortable debate. The worst thing we could allow at this point is for things to be swept under the rug or quietly dismissed by the official eventing community.
Even giving Mrs. Tryon the benefit of the doubt in terms of her motives, there have been grave consequences for this poor horse as well as our sport because of her decisions in those fateful moments. She should not be insulated from the consequences of her decision-making, either because she didnt realize the horse was so dramatically lame, or because she made an error in judgment under the stress of competition that she now admits and regrets deeply. This is true even assuming only pure and altruistic motives to Mrs. Tryon.
Anyone who takes a horse across the country has a super intensified responsibility for that horses care and well-being. As riders, we choose to place ourselves in harms way as we gallop over these huge solid questions. Our equine partners have no such choice. As such it is up to us to protect them, care for them and insure that their interests are not forsaken. For a rider of this caliber and at this level, someone who was granted the privilege to represent her country on some of the most talented equine athletes in the world, this tremendous obligation only intensifies one thousand times over.
Because of her lapse in judgment, this horse will never compete again, probably never be comfortable again, and like Barbaro, may face even worse. Of course we all hope and pray for a different ending for him, however it is doubtful. I am not privy to any of the veterinary information on his condition, but have availed myself of everything to be found on-line, and even should he make a miraculous recovery, the implications for what we see in that video remain unchanged.
For our sport of eventing and each person who competes in this ultimate test of horse and rider, there are also implications. There are many in the equine community that look for ways to attack our particular sport as particularly dangerous, even inhuman and cruel. The demise of the long format three-day event is in part because of this reality on the world scene. To insure our sports continued existence, in the Olympics and in our backyard events, we need only those riders at the top that help represent only the best we have to offer. The message contained in the images on the video only can do damage to our sport by fueling those who want to eliminate it.
Mrs. Tryon should have stopped, and for whatever reason she didnt. It makes it so much worse that she pushed on over the last fence and thru the finishing flags. To preserve the integrity of our commitment to good horsemanship, to protect all the horses competing in our sport, and to reinforce the obligation that each rider has to their equine partners, she should accept full responsibility and the punishment that the FEI eventually hands down. Regardless of motive, there are consequences to our actions.
The decisions made by Mrs. Tryon in those seconds after the horse went head bobbing lame following the penultimate jump, and the dramatic implications for her horse, deserve much scrutiny, and a thorough if yet uncomfortable debate. The worst thing we could allow at this point is for things to be swept under the rug or quietly dismissed by the official eventing community.
Even giving Mrs. Tryon the benefit of the doubt in terms of her motives, there have been grave consequences for this poor horse as well as our sport because of her decisions in those fateful moments. She should not be insulated from the consequences of her decision-making, either because she didnt realize the horse was so dramatically lame, or because she made an error in judgment under the stress of competition that she now admits and regrets deeply. This is true even assuming only pure and altruistic motives to Mrs. Tryon.
Anyone who takes a horse across the country has a super intensified responsibility for that horses care and well-being. As riders, we choose to place ourselves in harms way as we gallop over these huge solid questions. Our equine partners have no such choice. As such it is up to us to protect them, care for them and insure that their interests are not forsaken. For a rider of this caliber and at this level, someone who was granted the privilege to represent her country on some of the most talented equine athletes in the world, this tremendous obligation only intensifies one thousand times over.
Because of her lapse in judgment, this horse will never compete again, probably never be comfortable again, and like Barbaro, may face even worse. Of course we all hope and pray for a different ending for him, however it is doubtful. I am not privy to any of the veterinary information on his condition, but have availed myself of everything to be found on-line, and even should he make a miraculous recovery, the implications for what we see in that video remain unchanged.
For our sport of eventing and each person who competes in this ultimate test of horse and rider, there are also implications. There are many in the equine community that look for ways to attack our particular sport as particularly dangerous, even inhuman and cruel. The demise of the long format three-day event is in part because of this reality on the world scene. To insure our sports continued existence, in the Olympics and in our backyard events, we need only those riders at the top that help represent only the best we have to offer. The message contained in the images on the video only can do damage to our sport by fueling those who want to eliminate it.
Mrs. Tryon should have stopped, and for whatever reason she didnt. It makes it so much worse that she pushed on over the last fence and thru the finishing flags. To preserve the integrity of our commitment to good horsemanship, to protect all the horses competing in our sport, and to reinforce the obligation that each rider has to their equine partners, she should accept full responsibility and the punishment that the FEI eventually hands down. Regardless of motive, there are consequences to our actions.
sunflower
Well-Known Member
Having read the article again the inconsistencies really stand out. The horse was tiring yet she was unable to safely pull it up? Had it happened in the middle of the course it would have been a 'no brainer' to pull up. If she would, and could, have pulled up in similar circumstances elsewhere on the course then why not do that when the incident happened? Surely it should make no difference if you are at the first, last or any other fence. If your horse is that obviously lame you pull up.
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
She should have stopped. We all know it and she knows it. But in the heat of competition people do make bad choices, which is not to say they are justified, merely to point out that most people are not at their most discerning in that sort of situation. Hopefully the justified outcry will sink in and the next person faced with a similar decision will, if only to avoid censure, make the considered - and humane - choice.
As the above poster expressed so eloquently, this is a larger issue than this one horse and this one rider on this one day.
Competative riding is, like it or not, an ethical issue. How far do we have the right to go? What is the "right" decision in any specific situation? This lamentable episode is absolutely cut and dried but what about other, less etreme, examples? What about the horse that goes but is obviously uncomfortable or at a job it clearly hates because it's owner feels that to do otherwise would be to "give in"? What about the horse that bobbles out hunting, continues, but comes out the next day with a significant injury?
I work professionally in the industry and make my living training and selling horses. And I think about this EVERY day. Every choice has to be weighed in terms of risk and reward. It may be that I or my clients want something from a horse that is not in the horse's best interest . . . then what? It may be that someone cannot afford - practically or emotionally to do what's best. But then who decides what's best?
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there's any grey area in the situation we are discussing. BUT surely this sort of thing is grounds for a little self examination in all of us. It is so easy to say you wouldn't do what she did, ever, even in the smallest way. I would have pulled up. But then I'm generally considered a pussy about such things. I believe horses are basically compliant - otherwise we'd all be dead - and that if they cannot/will not do what I want then it's up to ME to figure out a way to make it possible. But many, many people do not agree with me. I have read such advice on the internet and heard it come out of people's mouths - ratchet up the bitting, hit the horse, let it fight until it gives in, even if there is a horrendous risk involved. Sometimes it does take discipline to solve a problem - horses DO get out of hand and learn to manipulate their situations - but I cannot count the number of times I've seen horses beaten for stopping, say, only to see them come up with soundness problems later. I've seen horses bitted, and draw reined, and walloped until they comply. And they will. Anyone would. But that doesn't mean it's right. Why is that qualitatively different than what AT did?
I'm sorry, I know this will be an unpopular view and I have my flame suit firmly zipped up but I really do think these dialogues can help. If one person thinks before they act or takes the position that maybe the horse has a REASON for its reactions other than just to thwart/annoy/embarrass its handler, if one situation ends well instead of badly, then it's worth it.
I don't want AT to be made an example of, I want her to be treated as if she had put her horses welfare below her own ego. But I would also hope that anyone else who has done something similar, even if it didn't end as badly or play out as publicly, gives it some thought.
As the above poster expressed so eloquently, this is a larger issue than this one horse and this one rider on this one day.
Competative riding is, like it or not, an ethical issue. How far do we have the right to go? What is the "right" decision in any specific situation? This lamentable episode is absolutely cut and dried but what about other, less etreme, examples? What about the horse that goes but is obviously uncomfortable or at a job it clearly hates because it's owner feels that to do otherwise would be to "give in"? What about the horse that bobbles out hunting, continues, but comes out the next day with a significant injury?
I work professionally in the industry and make my living training and selling horses. And I think about this EVERY day. Every choice has to be weighed in terms of risk and reward. It may be that I or my clients want something from a horse that is not in the horse's best interest . . . then what? It may be that someone cannot afford - practically or emotionally to do what's best. But then who decides what's best?
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there's any grey area in the situation we are discussing. BUT surely this sort of thing is grounds for a little self examination in all of us. It is so easy to say you wouldn't do what she did, ever, even in the smallest way. I would have pulled up. But then I'm generally considered a pussy about such things. I believe horses are basically compliant - otherwise we'd all be dead - and that if they cannot/will not do what I want then it's up to ME to figure out a way to make it possible. But many, many people do not agree with me. I have read such advice on the internet and heard it come out of people's mouths - ratchet up the bitting, hit the horse, let it fight until it gives in, even if there is a horrendous risk involved. Sometimes it does take discipline to solve a problem - horses DO get out of hand and learn to manipulate their situations - but I cannot count the number of times I've seen horses beaten for stopping, say, only to see them come up with soundness problems later. I've seen horses bitted, and draw reined, and walloped until they comply. And they will. Anyone would. But that doesn't mean it's right. Why is that qualitatively different than what AT did?
I'm sorry, I know this will be an unpopular view and I have my flame suit firmly zipped up but I really do think these dialogues can help. If one person thinks before they act or takes the position that maybe the horse has a REASON for its reactions other than just to thwart/annoy/embarrass its handler, if one situation ends well instead of badly, then it's worth it.
I don't want AT to be made an example of, I want her to be treated as if she had put her horses welfare below her own ego. But I would also hope that anyone else who has done something similar, even if it didn't end as badly or play out as publicly, gives it some thought.