H Tobago

cloppy said:
Incandescent Flame is absolutely stunning, have seen some pictures of the Roundhill Crystal KIng before and he is a beautiful.
Thank you for posting the link Lynne.
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Thank you, Cloppy. Incandescent Flame is another of TP Starbuck's first crop of foals. He is dual purpose CHAPS graded and a multi champion. He is the boy jumping in my sig pic, taken at the practice jump at his grading. His first foal is due next month. :D
 
Arab blood in sport breeding is nothing new, there are some excellent examples of Arab blood in competition... In this country we had 2 Elite pony stallions with Arab blood just off the top of my head...
Ousbek International JA - Elite Graded with SPSS and Approved AES, now deceased, was pure bred French Arab and out of his less than 20 offspring 8 are now registered BS.
Georgeo II International JA - Elite Graded CHAPS and Approved AES, even though he has Danish papers his sire is Pinto and his dam is pure Arab, he is stood at Phoenix National Stud.
For some even better examples of Arab blood in competition you only have to skip over to France and look at the likes of...
Aron N, Glen SL, Heliot de Blonde and Linaro
3 of them are in the Top 12 of Europes best International show jumping pony stallions and no reason why they can't be crossed out to horse mares.

I was promoting Arab blood in sport horses and ponies 11 years ago and i'm sure their was people before that... Arabs are marmite in this country.
 
pintoarabian said:
All of the stallions mentioned in this thread have a great deal to commend them and breeders who use them will not be disappointed. They are all pure breds but don't overlook the value of the high percentage part breds such as TP Starbuck, 87.5% Arabian, whose stock is now out there doing the business. His first foal is currently jumping BS, showing great scope, agility and speed. His firstborn filly, also now jumping BS, has just been awarded Arab Horse Society Premium Mare Status, based on her performance. That's just two of them and they've barely started their careers! PM me for pics/links.
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I have admired TP Starbuck since pretty much his early days out showing! He is beautifully marked.
 
Bezique said:
Arab blood in sport breeding is nothing new, there are some excellent examples of Arab blood in competition... In this country we had 2 Elite pony stallions with Arab blood just off the top of my head...
Ousbek International JA - Elite Graded with SPSS and Approved AES, now deceased, was pure bred French Arab and out of his less than 20 offspring 8 are now registered BS.
Georgeo II International JA - Elite Graded CHAPS and Approved AES, even though he has Danish papers his sire is Pinto and his dam is pure Arab, he is stood at Phoenix National Stud.
For some even better examples of Arab blood in competition you only have to skip over to France and look at the likes of...
Aron N, Glen SL, Heliot de Blonde and Linaro
3 of them are in the Top 12 of Europes best International show jumping pony stallions and no reason why they can't be crossed out to horse mares.

I was promoting Arab blood in sport horses and ponies 11 years ago and i'm sure their was people before that... Arabs are marmite in this country.
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Nice examples - and yes, Arab blood has been promoted and used in sport-horse/WB breeding for a long time; in horses as well as ponies, and close up in many famous WB sport horses - and not just in the 'obviously' Arab-influenced Trakehner, or in the Selle Francais where everyone knows the French Anglo-Arab is a huge influence.

Ramzes AA has had a big influence in Holsteiner breeding, for example, Matcho AA in Hanoverian and Inscahallah AA in Oldenburg lines. Ramzes is one of the many notable descendants of the famous Arab stallion Amurath (who also features prominently in the Polish lines in Tobago's pedigree).

Inschallah AA is the maternal grandsire of Rohdiamant and his full brother Royal Diamond, both winners of the Bundeschampionat in dressage - and also paternal grandsire of Weihaiwej, showjumping double World Champion - among many many other stars. Matcho and Inschallah are both line-bred to Denouste, who is also in Tobago's Russian lines.

And then there is Bajar, pure Shagya Arab stallion, reserve grading champion Holsteiner, who has several approved stallion sons and grandsons (mostly Holsteiner), including the international showjumper and very successful SJ sire Bachus.

In KWPN breeding, there are among others the mare Katincka and her daughter Rianne. Katincka was half Arab, by the pure-bred Little Star (who incidentally carries many of the same Polish Arab lines as Tobago). Her daughter Rianne founded one of the most successful KWPN lines ever, producing 14 foals, of which 5 became international SJ winners, 2 approved stallions, 3 preferent daughters and 2 keur/sport daughters.

Then the Olympic showjumper Almox Prints J - Trakehner x Arab (at least 1/4 Arab, and incidentally from the exact same Russian Arab lines as Tobago) who also sired lots of international SJ winners.

There are many, many other examples, of course - and I'm sure others here have more expert knowledge of them. I learnt most of this from a Dutch friend - I'm certainly not an expert on WB pedigrees myself!

I know this thread had moved on a bit from the "why Arab?" and "why Tobago?" questions, but I hope these details are of help (or at least some interest) to anyone who still had doubts about either.:D;)
 
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Hollycatt said:
I live in Hungary and shagya arabs are wonderful. Often about the 16 hands mark which is useful if you are tall. I know smaller arabs carry weight well and often take up the leg but personally I do like something about 16hh or taller. Shagyas in particular have been used in warmblood breeding and I think if I wanted to introduce arab for an upper level sportshorse I would lean towards a shagya rather than an in hand show horse. In most warmblood studbooks mares and stallions have to be approved anyway so the choice of arab blood is very limited.

I have always loved seeing posts on H Tobago. I have never seen a foal pic I have disliked and that is from a variety of mares. I have seen few in real life but what I saw I liked. Any thread I see on him I look as I find him gorgeous (and I am a die hard warmblood fan). They all seem to have a lot of presence and of course beauty. As with any stallion time will tell as regards his stock but it would appear they will do what it says on the tin. Will they compete GP show jumping or dressage? No. Endurance, eventing or showing at a high level - with the right mare and rider why not? Will they be good at a slightly lower level in any discipline and give their owners immense pleasure - I would suspect the answer would be a definate yes.
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Hollycatt I somehow missed your very nice post - so sorry, and thank you for your kind and sensible comments!

For what it's worth, Tobago is consistently throwing offspring much bigger than him - he's 15.2, and some of his foals look set to be at least 16hh. He's even somehow managed to sire a 15.3 baby from a barely 14hh Highland Pony mare!:eek:
 
Cherrygarden said:
As far as soundness goes though and general toughness and ability to perform with grit and bravery(log crocodiles notwithstanding) there isn't really any question that arabs are one of the best places to go for those attributes plus injecting a little sparkle and quality.
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These were perhaps the words that influenced me most when I was considering a departure from my usual approach for two of my sport horse mares - they struck many chords and reminded me of what I loved about an Arabian stallion I looked after some 40 years ago!

The two mares have been bred to my RID stallion every year for some years now - and while I (and buyers! :D) love the progeny I feltit would be worth trying something different. One mare, Bazaar's Brook, is IDxTB - a VERY pretty mare who has thrown more to her TB dam (who also produced the CHAPS stallion Bazaar's Texas and Richard Waygood's Inter. eventer, The Bees Knees.) Her ID cross offspring - 3/4 ID - look much more like the first cross. Two of the fillies graded AID - and one of those has been bred back to the RID (Avanti Amorous Archie) and even at 7/8ths ID, the foals ooze a quality I like!

The other mare - big MW - called Katie - is by Carmel Head(Ire) out of an unpapered 'Irish' mare - a stunning mover herself and her foals are BIG - and big movers - with wonderful trainable temperaments.

Having never seen a foal by HTobago I didn't like - when tossing with trying either a cross back to the TB - or .... he jumped to the fore and both mares have now been AI'd by him. I figure that with a little luck, I should get Anglo-Arab types with just a touch more bone and brain (from the ID) than is usual in this excellent cross. And hopefully they'll end up a little smaller than the foals these mares have produced to the ID (not everyone wants their sporthorses at 17hh+)

This is Katie -
imgA2.jpg


and this is Bazaar's Brook -
imgB0.jpg


And this is one of Katie's foals by the RID stallion - well over 17hh, maybe a bit plain about the head, but with good movement and a wonderful temperament and trainable attitude (and no, he's not for sale, he jumped off the shelf nearly two years ago and is heading for an eventing career.)

img16.jpg


You'll have to wait until next year to see what the lovely HTobago does with these mares - so will I and it's driving me crazy already!:D
 
Oh JanetGeorge I simply cannot WAIT to see what these girls produce to Tobago.....think they will be special indeed as, like you, I have YET to see anything by him I haven't like....arab, anglo, whatever! I cannot wait to put my Trak girly back in foal to him next year and he has so swayed me to his foals that who knows who else! I already have it planned that my yearling filly out of the Trak mare by my old colt will go to him when she is old enough! (and you certainly won't get any plain heads on your Toabgolings!!!)
 
Thank you Janet and Jane for your very kind words! And of course for choosing Tobago for your splendid mares!

I do completely understand that some people are surprised by the number of serious sport-horse breeders now using Tobago. A pure-bred show-Arab, unproven under saddle (though through injury and no fault of his own, as explained) is an unusual choice.

But the proof of any stallion is his offspring, and all these smart, experienced breeders looked very carefully at his stock before selecting him.

Some are now being rewarded for trusting their own judgement and doing something a bit different, such as Tanya Endres with her Anglo Arab colt Lekanto, by H Tobago out of Miss Daisy, who was awarded an Elite Premium in Eventing (yes that's Eventing, not Endurance ;)) at Hartpury Futurity recently, with the top score of the day (9.18) across all ages and disciplines - and Lekanto is currently the National joint top-scoring Eventer (all ages) of the 2012 series so far.

Of this year's crop of sport-horse foals by Tobago, all of the breeders who can do so have either already repeated the breeding to him or plan to use him again next year. This is even more important than Futurity results to me, as repeat breedings are the highest compliment a breeder can pay a stallion!

I am very grateful to these breeders for taking a chance on my show-Arab, and full of admiration for their independent spirit!

Of course, this is Tobago's first proper 'crop' of sport-horse foals, and we will have to wait some years to see how they perform under saddle - but the same would be true of any 'new' stallion.

Meanwhile, here is the foal the Futurity evaluators rated as a potential international eventer:

Lekantocanter3HF2_9487.jpg


zackcanter.jpg


I hope he will go on to demonstrate the value of Arabian blood in sport breeding, as many others have done before him. And that other sport breeders will consider the many excellent Arab stallions we have in this country.
 
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JanetGeorge said:
These were perhaps the words that influenced me most when I was considering a departure from my usual approach for two of my sport horse mares - they struck many chords and reminded me of what I loved about an Arabian stallion I looked after some 40 years ago!

The two mares have been bred to my RID stallion every year for some years now - and while I (and buyers! :D) love the progeny I feltit would be worth trying something different. One mare, Bazaar's Brook, is IDxTB - a VERY pretty mare who has thrown more to her TB dam (who also produced the CHAPS stallion Bazaar's Texas and Richard Waygood's Inter. eventer, The Bees Knees.) Her ID cross offspring - 3/4 ID - look much more like the first cross. Two of the fillies graded AID - and one of those has been bred back to the RID (Avanti Amorous Archie) and even at 7/8ths ID, the foals ooze a quality I like!

The other mare - big MW - called Katie - is by Carmel Head(Ire) out of an unpapered 'Irish' mare - a stunning mover herself and her foals are BIG - and big movers - with wonderful trainable temperaments.

Having never seen a foal by HTobago I didn't like - when tossing with trying either a cross back to the TB - or .... he jumped to the fore and both mares have now been AI'd by him. I figure that with a little luck, I should get Anglo-Arab types with just a touch more bone and brain (from the ID) than is usual in this excellent cross. And hopefully they'll end up a little smaller than the foals these mares have produced to the ID (not everyone wants their sporthorses at 17hh+)

This is Katie -
imgA2.jpg


and this is Bazaar's Brook -
imgB0.jpg


And this is one of Katie's foals by the RID stallion - well over 17hh, maybe a bit plain about the head, but with good movement and a wonderful temperament and trainable attitude (and no, he's not for sale, he jumped off the shelf nearly two years ago and is heading for an eventing career.)

img16.jpg


You'll have to wait until next year to see what the lovely HTobago does with these mares - so will I and it's driving me crazy already!:D
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Janet thank you SO much again. And it seems I have Cherrygarden to thank too for this amazing opportunity!
 
eventrider23 said:
Oh JanetGeorge I simply cannot WAIT to see what these girls produce to Tobago.....think they will be special indeed as, like you, I have YET to see anything by him I haven't like....arab, anglo, whatever! I cannot wait to put my Trak girly back in foal to him next year and he has so swayed me to his foals that who knows who else! I already have it planned that my yearling filly out of the Trak mare by my old colt will go to him when she is old enough! (and you certainly won't get any plain heads on your Toabgolings!!!)
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Jane I know this sounds soppy, but I really don't know what I would do without all your advice and support and encouragement. Everyone - Jane has been like Tobago's fairy godmother, always telling me "You SHALL go to the ball" (or whatever the equine equivalent is)!:)
 
I don't want to jump on the band wagon but..... I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THIS CROSS EITHER, there said it :)

Kate Janet has some Archie fillies so you never know a HTobago xArchie foal we will think that we have died and gone to Heaven xx
 
most pics of tobago's foals look almost like there is an invisable someone riding and shaping them, if you could imagine a bridle and rider on them, just the natural way they hold themselves when moving, a kind of balance, which if you have naturally you are halfway there, for me that is the hallmark of a good youngster, but then i'm predudiced as i breed part bred arabs anyway
 
I am such a numpty, I scoured horse deals for the article referred to before realising this was an old thread resurrected.

I feel people who think like
SusieT are very short sighted. There are plenty of stallions out there that are good, even excellent in their sporting discipline but sadly lacking when it comes to passing those qualities on. Just because a stallion does not compete himself ( and in Tobago's case for a perfectly valid reason) does not mean he can not be a consistent sire of incredible talent. As has been already said this is his first real crop of performance bred foals so it will take time to know if he can deliver the goods or not, but early signs are that they are top quality youngsters.
Many stallions are used by mare owners with vision long before
their own career takes off.
Sticking to stallions with a proven record is one way of breeding.
Taking a gamble with an unproven sire ( performance wise) who you admire and has the attributes to compliment your mare is another way.
But be assured Neither route will guarantee what you are hoping to breed. I personally would lean towards a stallion that consistently sires foals with the quality to impress judges and evaluators time and time again than one that performs brilliantly himself but is inconsistent in passing this talents on.
As a mare owner, what I want from a stallion is the ability to stamp his stock, and Tobago is certainly doing that.
I shall watch these babies of his growing up with great interest, if they fulfil half the promise they are showing now, there will be some very satisfied breeders.
 
You won't believe how many people told me a I was stupid for planning to breed to Tobago. How many people questioned what a ungraded show horse could possibly add to my breeding program. Luckily I knowmy mares and my breeding aims, and my Tobago filly, long awaited after 4 years, was everything and more that I wanted. It just goes to show you shouldn't be influenced by the opinions of people on internet forums,but go with your own gut instinct and experience.
If I ever breed again, which sadly is highly unlikely, I know I would use Tobago again in an instant! This years foal crop has been remarkable. Janet, I shall have to finally get my arse up to Shropshire to come and see your tobagalings when they arrive!
 
volatis said:
Janet, I shall have to finally get my arse up to Shropshire to come and see your tobagalings when they arrive!
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Why wait so long?? There's an old friend of yours JUST down the road who would LOVE to see you! :D

I'm pleased you approve - because I've seen the horses you've bred and very much respect your judgement! And you're right - you HAVE to go with your own gut instincts when it comes to determining whether a stallion is GOOD - and if he'll suit your mares!

I did this with my young ID stallion who the Inspectors put down (and a rather po-faced one told me I should geld him because of his 'bad temperament' (yeah - he played up at Grading, surrounded by testosterone and on only his second trip off the farm!) I used him last year and have had some cracking foals by him - and I've used him again this year without a moment's hesitation!
 
My Warmblood mare is in foal to Tobago, she is a dressage mare and every Stallion in her pedigree is a GP dressage stallion for 5 generations+ - the reason I used Tobago is the same reason I use any stallion, I look to see what the stallion will improve and bring to the combination. I used him because he improves movement, his foals are uphill, his foals have presense and Arabs are notoriously hardy and add soundness. I looked at him like I would look at any stallion (WB or not) and I asked myself what will he improve/add to my mare. I agree its a different choice and not one I have done before but I really feel this foal should be fab!!
 
SusieT said:
Yes- if the offspring are doing the necessary you can promote him. Irresponsible in the first place to breed unridden stock-no proof of soundness or performance (regardless of what has been done in the past). this particular stallions progeny are only a few years old I think? So a gambling waiting game really at this point. He is pretty, of course.
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That is merely your personal opinion and you are, of course, entitled to it :)

I don't agree at all, but then I would be willing to gamble on a foal by Htobago, I have been since the moment I first clapped eyes on him, and that isn't purely because I like arabians. Very sadly circumstances dictate I cannot use him.

I would say though that Htobago has sired horses out of a variety of mares and has had repeat breedings and some top class mares to him. That alone says a lot for me.

Funnily enough my other favourite arabian stallion was also chestnut, although a totally different type ... useful little chap by the name of Ben Rabba.
 
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Have considered using H Tobago on my KWPN mare.
The only thing that's putting me off is his height. My mare is 16.1hh and he is 15.1hh if I'm not mistaken. A lot of kids over here progress to horses at a very young age, 13 and sometimes younger, and we could end up with what the Dutch class is an E-pony.

A-pony: up to 1,17 meter
B-pony: from 1,17 up to 1,27 meter
C-pony: from 1,27 up to 1,37 meter
D-pony: from 1,37 up to 1,48 meter
E-pony/small horse: from 1,48 up to 1,569 meter.

My daughter is small enough as an adult to ride it but would have to ride it in the horse classes as she is 18. Not exactly what we want. I know the resultant foal would be stunning but it would be bred for use in affiliated dressage.

I would be very interested to hear what heights the foals from other warm bloods/ bigger mares have made before I make a decision.
 
ritajennings said:
I don't want to jump on the band wagon but..... I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THIS CROSS EITHER, there said it :)

Kate Janet has some Archie fillies so you never know a HTobago xArchie foal we will think that we have died and gone to Heaven xx
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Oh I would LOVE to see a Tobago foal out of one of Archie's gorgeous daughters! (Don't mind which one - Archie stamps them all with the same excellent qualities!)

One doesn't see many (if any) straight Arab/ID crosses - although if one thinks about it, this cross could be just as successful as the classic TB/ID, don't you think?
 
tristar said:
most pics of tobago's foals look almost like there is an invisable someone riding and shaping them, if you could imagine a bridle and rider on them, just the natural way they hold themselves when moving, a kind of balance, which if you have naturally you are halfway there, for me that is the hallmark of a good youngster, but then i'm predudiced as i breed part bred arabs anyway
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Thank you tristar - you are very kind. I know what you mean, and just hope that these sport-babies look as good when they have real, visible riders on board!
 
ribbons said:
I am such a numpty, I scoured horse deals for the article referred to before realising this was an old thread resurrected.

I feel people who think like
SusieT are very short sighted. There are plenty of stallions out there that are good, even excellent in their sporting discipline but sadly lacking when it comes to passing those qualities on. Just because a stallion does not compete himself ( and in Tobago's case for a perfectly valid reason) does not mean he can not be a consistent sire of incredible talent. As has been already said this is his first real crop of performance bred foals so it will take time to know if he can deliver the goods or not, but early signs are that they are top quality youngsters.
Many stallions are used by mare owners with vision long before
their own career takes off.
Sticking to stallions with a proven record is one way of breeding.
Taking a gamble with an unproven sire ( performance wise) who you admire and has the attributes to compliment your mare is another way.
But be assured Neither route will guarantee what you are hoping to breed. I personally would lean towards a stallion that consistently sires foals with the quality to impress judges and evaluators time and time again than one that performs brilliantly himself but is inconsistent in passing this talents on.
As a mare owner, what I want from a stallion is the ability to stamp his stock, and Tobago is certainly doing that.
I shall watch these babies of his growing up with great interest, if they fulfil half the promise they are showing now, there will be some very satisfied breeders.
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Ribbons thank you so much for this thoughtful post. I agree, both approaches can be equally successful, and both involve a degree of risk.

And I'm sure all stallion owners are grateful (as I certainly am) that so many breeders are willing to trust their own judgement and take a chance on stallions at the start of their careers. :)
 
volatis said:
You won't believe how many people told me a I was stupid for planning to breed to Tobago. How many people questioned what a ungraded show horse could possibly add to my breeding program. Luckily I knowmy mares and my breeding aims, and my Tobago filly, long awaited after 4 years, was everything and more that I wanted. It just goes to show you shouldn't be influenced by the opinions of people on internet forums,but go with your own gut instinct and experience.
If I ever breed again, which sadly is highly unlikely, I know I would use Tobago again in an instant! This years foal crop has been remarkable. Janet, I shall have to finally get my arse up to Shropshire to come and see your tobagalings when they arrive!
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Thank you very much Sacha.

It was horribly sad when the filly Sacha bred died (of a mystery infection, vets still don't know what caused it) at only 6 weeks, despite Jane (eventrider) and her vets fighting day and night to save her. I still can't look at photos without crying, and poor Jane, who had looked after her devotedly and loved her since birth, was inconsolable.

Jane now owns the beautiful dam of this filly, Holme Park Venezia, and is determined to repeat the breeding as soon as her circumstances allow.

This is Blitz (Volatis Valencia) at just 1 day old:

valencia1-day.jpg


Just miserable to lose such a stunning, sparkly, sweet-natured foal, and I hope it will be some consolation to see another just like her - with luck perhaps in 2014.
 
micramadam said:
Have considered using H Tobago on my KWPN mare.
The only thing that's putting me off is his height. My mare is 16.1hh and he is 15.1hh if I'm not mistaken. A lot of kids over here progress to horses at a very young age, 13 and sometimes younger, and we could end up with what the Dutch class is an E-pony.

A-pony: up to 1,17 meter
B-pony: from 1,17 up to 1,27 meter
C-pony: from 1,27 up to 1,37 meter
D-pony: from 1,37 up to 1,48 meter
E-pony/small horse: from 1,48 up to 1,569 meter.

My daughter is small enough as an adult to ride it but would have to ride it in the horse classes as she is 18. Not exactly what we want. I know the resultant foal would be stunning but it would be bred for use in affiliated dressage.

I would be very interested to hear what heights the foals from other warm bloods/ bigger mares have made before I make a decision.
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Thank you very much for thinking of Tobago!

But if you are looking to breed something for the 'pony' categories from this mare, I'm afraid he would not be suitable. He is actually 15.2, and tends to throw big, tall foals (including a 15.3 youngster out of a barely-14hh Highland Pony mare!).

His foals out of 16hh/16.1 mares are all estimated to reach at least 16hh at maturity.

So sorry, as he has had a super filly out of a KWPN mare this year, and I would love to see more. Here is the filly, to give you an idea:

kelago.jpg
 
imafluffybunny said:
My Warmblood mare is in foal to Tobago, she is a dressage mare and every Stallion in her pedigree is a GP dressage stallion for 5 generations+ - the reason I used Tobago is the same reason I use any stallion, I look to see what the stallion will improve and bring to the combination. I used him because he improves movement, his foals are uphill, his foals have presense and Arabs are notoriously hardy and add soundness. I looked at him like I would look at any stallion (WB or not) and I asked myself what will he improve/add to my mare. I agree its a different choice and not one I have done before but I really feel this foal should be fab!!
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Thank you - and thank you VERY much for breeding your wonderful Roulette to my boy!

Everyone - this is another really top-class mare, graded into the Hanoverian Main Stud Book, with a star-studded Oldenburg/Trakehner dressage pedigree: http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10804754

She has already produced splendid foals by leading stallions such as Sarkozy, Saint Malo and Legrande. Hard acts for Tobago to follow, but a huge honour for him, and for the Arab breed!
 
Well, I'm very disappointed in my Tobago - but in a very good way!

Lol, that got you all going didn't it?!

Everyone else posts pics of their lovely exuberant Tobago babies and I get this puny effort in spite of turning them into the big field and remembering to take the camera video turned on with new batteries ready for the fireworks which usually denotes a new field.

A very sedate walk -


So disappointing but then I also got this -



but this was as exciting as it got. I must just have the most laid back Tobago so far but I wouldn't change him for the world; he is such a nice person to have around; hopefully we'll get more fireworks when the other pair come back!
 
Enfys said:
That is merely your personal opinion and you are, of course, entitled to it :)

I don't agree at all, but then I would be willing to gamble on a foal by Htobago, I have been since the moment I first clapped eyes on him, and that isn't purely because I like arabians. Very sadly circumstances dictate I cannot use him.

I would say though that Htobago has sired horses out of a variety of mares and has had repeat breedings and some top class mares to him. That alone says a lot for me.

Funnily enough my other favourite arabian stallion was also chestnut, although a totally different type ... useful little chap by the name of Ben Rabba.
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Sorry - a lot of posts from me here, but all these very kind comments deserve individual replies, not just some off-hand general 'thanks'.

Thank you very much Enfys. I am a big fan of your horses too!

Debate is good, and is only to be expected when breeders are making a somewhat unusual choice.

But these are all experienced, intelligent, respected breeders, who diligently research all the available stallions, and have carefully chosen a particular pure-bred Arab to complement their mares.

And as you say, all the repeat breedings from such breeders speak volumes.

I share your high opinion of Ben Rabba too! A different type, but a superb and highly influential stallion. We are lucky to have his excellent grandson Marcus Aurelius to continue this very important line here in the UK.
 
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htobago said:
Thank you very much for thinking of Tobago!

But if you are looking to breed something for the 'pony' categories from this mare, I'm afraid he would not be suitable. He is actually 15.2, and tends to throw big, tall foals (including a 15.3 youngster out of a barely-14hh Highland Pony mare!).

His foals out of 16hh/16.1 mares are all estimated to reach at least 16hh at maturity.

So sorry, as he has had a super filly out of a KWPN mare this year, and I would love to see more. Here is the filly, to give you an idea:

kelago.jpg
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On the contrary, I DON'T want a pony foal which is why I am hesitant.
I do however believe that this injection of 'new blood' is exactly what is needed for the KWPN studbook. There are far too many foals bred from the same stallions year after year.

This is the mare I am thinking of using:

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and this was her first foal (now 2 years)
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I always make a point of seeing the stallion 'in the flesh' so to speak so that I can be absolutely certain that he will improve on what the mare is lacking and also some of his offspring. Not planning on putting mare in foal again till 2014 as she is currently competing in affiliated dressage and we want to get her up to advanced level before breeding another foal from her but I will be getting in contact with you when ready and will keep watching his progress and that of his offspring.
I
 
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