Hacking - get off or stay on?

Faracat said:
Rather than completely derailing another thread, I thought I'd start a new one. :) ;)

I had an interesting discussion with another poster about dismounting when hacking to lead your horse past something scary.

Do you do this or not? What are your reasons for doing/not doing this?





I was faced by the following situation once - how would you and your horse handle it?

I was riding on a very bendy road (blind bends) and had a couple of cars close behind me, as I came round one bend a still smoking, burnt out car was on the verge to the left. As the cars were pretty close behind and obviously wanted to overtake and my mare tensed up, I hopped off, led her by the wreck which then meant the cars could pass safely (waved thank you to them as they passed) and then remounted and carried on with the hack.

If your horse goes past abandoned, charred, ex-joy riding cars regularly - think back to the first one you came across when you answer the question! :p
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I have actually come across a burned out car, although it had stopped smoking!
For things that really worry the horse, I dismount. Because we have lots and lots of hours built up leading out in hand, I know 100% that it's safer for me to be on the ground, and that it's very likely to defuse a situation rather than just about dealing with a very tense horse while trying to stay safely on top.

I appreciate that a lot of people don't have the confidence leading, and in that case, I can see why they stay on board :) When it comes down to it, you just have to take the option you feel is safest for your own particular horse/human combination.
 
I am not sure what I would do. I have nothing against getting off and leading past other than the fact I would be afraid that I could lose him if he panicked and I was on foot.

I would probably ask the traffic to stop and try and ride past initially. If there was someone around I might ask if they would lead him passed while I stayed on him. Finally I am ashamed to say if he really did not want to go past, because it's on the road, I would probably turnaround and go back as I would be worried about him panicking and hitting a car/causing an accident.
 
Depends on the horse in question and the situation. My old Welshy used to panic if ridden past large vehicles, but was much calmer if lead past. As such, I always dismounted. Current boy is generally better if ridden past "scary" objects, and getting off doesn't help the situation. Due to that, it's rare that I'll get off.
 
My chap has a real fear of big vehicles I.e. delivery lorries/transits etc, he gets more confidence with me on the ground I.e. he will go past literally anything with me beside him but on top he really panics and there's no point getting into an 'argument' with him and making a situation worse by forcing him. However, he is getting more and more confident and I now know when I can push him and when to get off. By getting off also means that you don't annoy other road users whilst trying to get past!
 
Faracat said:
I just was wondering if the fact that I regularly walk unbacked youngsters out in-hand, makes me think that getting off to lead past is less of a big deal than maybe people who only have ridden horses think it is? Maybe this is nothing to do with it?

Is there anyone who wouldn't get off whatever they were faced with?
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I've only had to dismount once and it was on my old section d when we met the hunt! He was literally wheel spinning to go with but was so not up to it fitness wise(we were on a quiet hack). I sat it for a while but then decided if he went up further than the minor ones he was doing and I came off he'd be gone after them, across whatever roads etc they intended to cross. I then managed to lead him away from them, he was good on the ground so Felt this was my best option. If i Was faced again with something truly terrifying or too damn exciting I would do the same again.
 
Faracat said:
I just was wondering if the fact that I regularly walk unbacked youngsters out in-hand, makes me think that getting off to lead past is less of a big deal than maybe people who only have ridden horses think it is? Maybe this is nothing to do with it?

Is there anyone who wouldn't get off whatever they were faced with?
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I've always spent a lot of time (years!)taking youngsters out inhand. They have all turned into exceptionally good hacking horses who very VERY rarely spook or balk at anything. That's probably why I get off to lead if there's something they're too frightened to pass: after so much work it's always something genuinely terrifying.

I do get off to lead but rarely. If it's something they're just unsure of, I stay on and encourage them past UNLESS it's dangerous to let them skirt past on tiptoes (busy narrow road for example).
However for something extreme I'll happily hop off and lead past.

Latest hop off was a very narrow country road and we met a tractor pulling a huge cattle trailer complete with mooing, stamping cows inside. I thought it was scary, never mind the poor pony who had to squeeze past it. I jumped off and led him past. He tiptoed past it snorting then stood quietly whilst I scrabbled back on and set off with him confident and happy that it wasn't as bad as he'd feared. . No fighting, no stress, no trauma. I probably COULD have booted/smacked him past it, but to what avail? I could also have coxed him past after a bit of time but the tractor driver had kindly stopped and turned off the engine and wouldn't have wanted to wait 5min whilst I persuaded the pony that the trailer wasn't actually full off lions (it kust sounded like it was)

Many people see getting off as 'giving in' but as far as I'm aware, it's not meant to be a fight?! I certainly don't hop off at every little spook but I don't see how having to forcibly drive a horse past something they're really frightened of achieves anything useful.

On the same note however I would never get off a horse who is just napping (I.e not actually frightened of anything) and will take up a fight over it. But the important skill is to know when they're just being stroppy and when they're actually frightened.
 
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If I get in those situations, getting off isn't an option as I need a relatively stable horse to do it. I am surprised at home many people can dismount, unless I am a bit of a wus at getting off? Doesn't help that I can't get back on unless I have someone to hold while I climb on a gate! I stay on-board unless dumped but will hold traffic to trot to the next escape route aka drive/track.
 
Faracat said:
I just was wondering if the fact that I regularly walk unbacked youngsters out in-hand, makes me think that getting off to lead past is less of a big deal than maybe people who only have ridden horses think it is? Maybe this is nothing to do with it?

Is there anyone who wouldn't get off whatever they were faced with?
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I think this must be why I began doing it, as I was raised with the "don't get off or horse has won" rule, but once I started working with youngsters and backing it just came naturally that I would get off at times, and one day I actually said to myself "what has the horse won?!"
 
mandyroberts said:
If I get in those situations, getting off isn't an option as I need a relatively stable horse to do it. I am surprised at home many people can dismount, unless I am a bit of a wus at getting off? Doesn't help that I can't get back on unless I have someone to hold while I climb on a gate! I stay on-board unless dumped but will hold traffic to trot to the next escape route aka drive/track.
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Never really thought about it? I can easily hop off a horse even at a trot? Most people can? I do need them to stand still ish to get back on again though.
 
Although my horses are used to me working with them on the ground, I would not dismount. I ride by the scary obstacles with minimum reaction from me, so I'll either trot briskly forward or give the horse a moment to collect itself if appropriate, I don't look at the object either as it can reinforce a message of a potential hazard that Must Be Avoided at all costs.

I'd time the point where you actually pass the spooky thing for when there is a break in the traffic. It may mean slowing or increasing the pace beforehand. If the traffic is in a constant flow, turn and look at the first driver and ask them to hold back, ensuring they understand and are prepared to work with you.


Surprisingly, perhaps, I've yet to ride a horse that was frightened by a bonfire. Sometimes, making assumptions about how a horse will perceive something different is a self fulfilling prophecy. The horse responds in the way you expected.

That said, safety is the priority and whatever gets horse and rider home in one piece is fine, as riding on roads give few second chances.
If getting off makes you feel safe, that's fine. Its better than ending up in a heap on the road with a horse running off.
 
MR - my horses are short and it does make remounting far easier, but I try to find a gate/high verge/tree stump/other if possible. This was of course planned as there is also less far to fall when you have a short horse (not that I want to test that theory too often!) :p

They have all turned into exceptionally good hacking horses who very VERY rarely spook or balk at anything.
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KB - that's exactly what I'm aiming for. :)
 
I think it depends on the horses personality, experience & the situation. As a rule I would never dismount from my horse by choice - she can be silly and sharp and if something upsets her, she tends to leave planet earth and literally forgets anything else in the world exists apart from the offending object - which would make dismounting a bad idea, as she'd undoubtably pull back / spin and p*** off over the horizon never to be seen again. I have a lot more control onboard as she does listen to voice aids and knows that if I squeeze her sides I mean it - if we were to meet something very out of the ordinary like you described and there were cars around, then I would hold her back / get her off the road into a gateway until it was safe to face the monster as that technique works best for her. In the meantime I am working on her (non existent) manners!

However with my late gelding, the easiest way to get past anything scary would be to get off and walk him by. He was very polite to handle and would never dream of barging his handler or taking off, however scary the situation. He hadnt had a great past and was very unnerved by farm traffic or big rattly trailers, he would panic and run out at the last minute in front of whatever was coming past - so if it was something I knew he wouldn't like, I'd hop off and hold him until it went past, then get back on. I didn't do it with every car, or with every plastic bag or odd coloured leaf - but with tractors etc he would stand quietly as long as I was there with him, and I thought that was the safe and sensible thing to do as not every tractor driver was going to be as patient and understanding as the locals were.
 
With enough work it's achievable. Roo is sharp and very excitable (although too polite to do anything) yet is utterly bombproof to hack. In fact, if it'd been him with the scary cattle trailer, he probably would have been ok under saddle. I'd still have got off and led though so he had a confidence giving experience.

I think when people hear you get off if they're frightened, you mean at a packet of crisps or a rustly plastic bag! I'd love to see someone trying to trot past my cattle trailer last week, when we literally had to climb the verge to squeeze past it and the wall on the other side!
 
Faracat - i'm 5ft 3in, horse 15.2hh but not as young as I was to get back on - especially a sharp little horse who is looking for every moment to be "in-charge"
Kalibear - I can get off a horse in trot but not if its leaping/spinning....
 
mandyroberts said:
Kalibear - I can get off a horse in trot but not if its leaping/spinning....
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Ah, see, I'd have got off long before it got to that stage! I teach my horses to be less 'reactive' and to show interest in things that might be scary, so we rarely get to the 'throwing themselves all over the place' stage. Anyways, they'd be made to stand quietly before I got off.
 
I am a stayer oner I never voluntarily get off .
But when my horses are young I am very careful they are never over faced .
One of the first things I teach them is to leg yield past scary things .
 
I can't remember ever getting off my horse but despite being scared off everything on (the edge) of the road he rarely spins round and always goes past eventually. Plus he's 16.3 and I'm not very good at getting on! I have done on other horses in desperation though. My mum had an awful accident leading our horse over a foot and mouth tarp on the railway line, he panicked, pulled away and got hit by a car:-( broke his leg and the huntsman had to come and shoot him:-( just awful. Maybe if she's stayed on mum would have been killed too? Maybe they'd have found a way round and he'd still be with us. Who knows.

Do what you think it safe. x
 
Difficult one. I used to be firmly in the "I'd rather gnaw my own leg off than dismount" camp when I had my previous horse. Partly because he was easier to control when mounted and took as much confidence from you being onboard as on the ground and partly because he was difficult to mount when out and about because of how excited he'd get! (seriously there were gates that every other rider in the area dismounted to do because they were so tricky but I figured a technique out so I could use that route and no have to walk home!) Think it helped that I got to know that horse inside out and could predict his reactions to most things and plan my counter-reactions accordingly.

Current horse has completely and utterly changed my view on this though as he takes a lot more confidence from someone being on the ground and it seems to calm him down and stop him going into meltdown. He has a much higher tolerance for spooky things when he doesn't have someone on his back.
 
I don't see the problem with getting off and leading. After all you are still in charge of the horse. This is part of why it is so important to put in the ground work and making sure that a horse will lead nicely and willingly.
 
I probably would have backed off a bit, let the cars past and then tried to ride past, I would have been reluctant given such a scenario to get off, incase the horse got scared and bolted, leaving me on my feet and it careering god knows where. Depending on how it was reacting, I may have dismounted, but if it was too spooked to coax past would probably (in these circumstances) have judged it too spooked to dismount and turned around and ridden back the way I came.
 
In 8 years of owning my horse I've thought it wise to get off on about 4-6 occasions where certain factors make it a wise and safest choice.

One where he had spun around at a caravan dumped at the entrance of the bridleway the other side of the road where we had to cross a busy bypass with cars travelling at 60miles an hour. He had already whipped around and gone back across the road once and I couldn't afford to risk that again it would have been madness to try to ride him past it. He is really funny when things change in his routine hacks but is always happy for me to lead him past. He remembers things like this for ages and my friend stupidly knowing what he might do took him across the road again without asking me (she was supposed to ride him in the school) and although the caravan had gone he spun around and slipped completely over on the tarmac in front of the unusually stationary traffic. Luckily she wasn't hurt but he gouged his front elbow with a hind hoof and set back his SI rehab by months.

In non-road situations it is easier because you can just deal with the spooking, wait it out if necessary and not be worried about other road users or slipping on the road.
 
ridefast said:
I don't get off anymore, but when my horse was younger and getting used to hacking out alone I would frequently get off and lead her past anything new that she hesitated at. I had 2 reasonings for this, 1, she is much bigger than me and if it came to a fight she would win, 2, she was very happy to follow me past so it was easier to get off and lead her, giving her a good experience of said scary thing she'd never seen before, and also teaching her to stand to be mounted anywhere and everywhere. I never had to get off more than once for the same object, once she was past it and everything was fine then she was fine
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Exactly this:)
 
I will only get off in very extreme situations mainly because I too old to have the bounce to mount from the ground and will usually have to lead the damned animal for at least half a mile before I can find somewhere to get back on. I also tend to think I'm more likely to be able to control and calm a panicking horse from on top rather than on the ground where I'm worried about getting trampled, kicked and loosing my hold on it.
 
Queenbee said:
I probably would have backed off a bit, let the cars past and then tried to ride past, I would have been reluctant given such a scenario to get off, incase the horse got scared and bolted, leaving me on my feet and it careering god knows where. Depending on how it was reacting, I may have dismounted, but if it was too spooked to coax past would probably (in these circumstances) have judged it too spooked to dismount and turned around and ridden back the way I came.
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In the case I posted about it wasn't possible to see the car soon enough to back the traffic off because of the blind bend. But given a straighter road, letting the traffic past before a scary object is very wise, so I agree with you.

With CM she is calmer with scary stuff when led from the ground, so with that horse and that situation I still think I did the right thing. If I was riding a horse that was likely to bolt away from me in-hand, then I would have had to do something different. Maybe indicate right and cross the road to pass it - if the traffic would let me. I have been asked by car drivers why I'm sticking my arm out before and had to explain that I'm sticking my right arm out to indicate that I want to turn right.
 
I've done it with previous horses, but only once with Ned.

I used to ride him past no matter what, because I knew I would never get back on! Now I've trained him to stand while mounting, I wanted to test it out and about. On my first ride, I got to do that test! He started really freaking out at an office chair that had been dumped. I jumped off and lead him up to it and let him sniff.
I got him past and he stood wonderfully to let me back on :)

Mission accomplished!
 
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