Hacking in an outline?

I try to always ride in an outline. That outline can vary from long and low to working up into the bridle it does not and should not be wooden and fixed. IMO the horse has 23hrs a day to do as it likes, whilst i'm riding the horse is working, also I feel that as I am sat on the horse it is my responsability to make sure the horse is using itself correctly and stepping under itself to balance out my weight. I would not be happy with a horse smooching along on its forehand as this puts extra strain on the front limbs.
 
I always try to ride in an outline. I have no school, and can't ride in the field much as we have cows and the horses slip on the cow muck!

I hack every day and use them to school my horse i.e. leg yieding across quite roads, working them correctly etc. I sometimes use a school maybe not even once a fortnight, and that is mainly for jumping.

We also have relaxed hacks, I tend to work them correctly for most of the ride, with relaxed moments and fast work in between :)

Don't know about the harbridge but I would recommend the bungee. We use it on a few difficult horses and I think it is very forgiving and just encourages them to work in an outline, obviously you need to get the horse working correctly behind and try not to rely on the gadgets etc.

I once had a horse with the opposite problem, she had a natural head carriage, but even when riding on the buckle she would remain in that position...so I had a hard time getting her to relax and stretch out! :)
 
I have to do ALL my schooling whilst hacking as don't have a school!

I think that if you're riding on the roads where you're likely to meet quite a bit of traffic, you have just GOT to have everything sorted and tickety boo, and that means riding from the leg with a good contact coz you don't want any spooking or napping and if your horse doesn't feel any contact from the rider you're asking for trouble.

There are places tho' where you can relax and slop along on a loose rein a bit; I always remember what we were taught in Pony Club about "walk the last mile home" so use this time to perhaps have a looser rein than I would on the outward journey, just so the horse knows he's chilled and relaxed.

If you're cantering in open space, you can never in this overcrowded Island be sure that there isn't someone, a child, dog walker or whatever, in the way, so I think you'd always have to be very careful to keep a good contact and not let the horse get away from the rider.
 
Yeah I don't have a school any more so we do all our schooling on hacks.

If you are not sure WHY your horse should work in an 'outline' you need to have a look at Sylvia Loch's website, where there is a little video of her explaining the mechanics of a horse's skeleton, and why it is much better for their backs for them to carry us in a 'correct' shape.

My boy now carries himself well when hacking - due to the past 2 years of hard work and muscle building. He finds it easy to carry himself because he now has the correct muscles. It doesn't come overnight, nor without lessons. I have never used any artificial schooling aids, preferring to work on improving my own riding. Yes that's the long way round but my horse is not one that would suffer his head being pulled into a position by anything!!!
We leg yield past scary things, we practise our lateral work and bending on the roads, and our transitions are now more precise than they ever were in the school. He has become responsive because when hacking your horse needs to be. My horse is much more forward going because schooling in an arena is a novelty and excites him (he was VERY lazy when I bought him 2 years ago).

As a result of this, our dressage scores have improved, so schooling while you hack definitely works! Good luck with it, and remember to work on your own riding, rather than relying on artificial means.
 
Thanks noble steed. My horse's head isn't being pulled into a position - as stated she is long & low in the harbridge - I think pulling her head in would just worsen the head flinging so I am very careful to keep it loose.

I am also not relying on it to do anything other than stop my nose being broken! I have lessons weekly, sometimes more, so am working hard on my own riding and as my original post stated this is a short term measure. My instructor has said not to use it for more than 6 weeks and after that time it will come off and we will be working on balance and outline. At the moment there is no point in trying as she refuses to accept the contact.

I do understand that gadgets shouldn't be used as a quick fix and correct riding is the way to do things - unfortunately we have got into such an evasion situation that this may be the best way to help us both move forward so that we can then work correctly.
 
sonjafoers said:
I do understand that gadgets shouldn't be used as a quick fix and correct riding is the way to do things - unfortunately we have got into such an evasion situation that this may be the best way to help us both move forward so that we can then work correctly.
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I know what you mean - sometimes a horse can become so evasive that it is kinder to use an aid than hassling the horse constantly. It's kinder and less stressful for horse and rider :) That way the horse is working against itself and doesn't resent the rider.
 
Thank you Inky_and_Sunny that's exactly it. She gets so bad tempered when being asked to work in the school that her head is constantly coming up violently, her back hollows and she gets in a stress. I then get frustrated with her and it becomes a vicious circle with neither of us actually learning anything and we are now at a complete dead end. I just don't want anyone to think I'm using this as a shortcut instead of riding correctly.

You have been very helpful, thanks again.
 
I don't hack in an outline but then I do longer rides (possibly in same cases classed as long distance as more than 12 miles) and don't think it is a good idea to be working in an outline for hours on end - sometimes I go out for rides that last 6 hours with a stop for lunch.

Endurance riders do not tend to ride in an outline and are perfectly safe.
 
I do not insist my horse hacks in an outline at all times, we go through stages when I ask him to go in an outline then stretching and then when I let him be a horse, chill out and go ( with a contact ) however he wants.

Must be a cruel mother have not noticed him in any discomfort :)

It sounds to me that op you are using the market harlborough correctly, just as a guide when things really go wrong and to prevent a battle, as long as it is fitted as you describe and only comes into play when things do, I cannot see the harm.

I am usually against gadgets however I do recognise used for short periods correctly they do have a use, I have myself used the swear word of draw reins recently only for a couple of sessions on the advice of my experianced instructor to show my horse how to lower himself and round whilst cantering. He now has a wow canter instead of a hollow giraffe effect and the draw reins have been long put away.
 
I school on hacks. Not as I would in the arena but trying to get him to stretch usually; he has hock spavins and shivers so can get quite tense across his lumbar and SI. If I can get him L&L / stretching on hacks then it helps to stretch this area out and keep him supple. He's quite spooky and can be tense so I find that schooling on hacks gives him something other than "that leaf / bit of differently coloured tarmac / cat / dog / car / tree / cow is going to eat me, run away..." to think about.

I leg yield, do a bit of SF / SI and lots of transitions. We don't have many hills where we are, just long slow slopes so I tend to trot up those but vary the pace from working trot to a really slow, almost stopped trot and keep this for a few strides, then allow forwards again, then push for a bit of extension etc.
 
I hack on the buckle literally (which I actually find much safer as I have a spooky type funnily enough) though I will say I hack out twice a week to give my mare a break from the school. If I didn't have a school, then yes I would hack out (in parts) whilst trying to school her (if I could) but since that's her time to relax and do whatever I would not ask her to be in an outline as it's more about her having fun, having a blast and everything else.


x
 
I think it is fine to hack out in an outline for short time periods but there may be possible issues relating to working in an outline for hours on end.

The FEI have issued stewards guidelines saying that warm up/pre competition training should not last longer than an hour so I guess there may well be welfare issues regarding riding in an outline for long periods of time otherwise I can't see why they would have introduced this rule - so if you are hacking out for three hours it might be a welfare issue if you spend all of that time working your horse in an outline.
 
SO1 said:
I think it is fine to hack out in an outline for short time periods but there may be possible issues relating to working in an outline for hours on end.

The FEI have issued stewards guidelines saying that warm up/pre competition training should not last longer than an hour so I guess there may well be welfare issues regarding riding in an outline for long periods of time otherwise I can't see why they would have introduced this rule - so if you are hacking out for three hours it might be a welfare issue if you spend all of that time working your horse in an outline.
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that was bought about because of the rolkeur debate ;)

i'm sure noone would be working a horse in an advanced outline for 3hrs straight! but on sunday my horse did 2 wh shows, 2 champion shows and supreme champion show - a total of 5 hrs riding her - she was still fresh as a daisy for the final show and had the stamina to do a fabulous last individ show and gallop that got us supreme show champs - yes in the line up she was relaxed but she was in an 'outline' for all warming up and in the shows - for her 1½hr daily rides i do most of that is in an outline of varying degrees but with also periods of one the buckle riding to let her stretch - but then she has the strength to do that - and its been a long process to get her to that point. i do not think she's a welfare case ;)
 
I presume as there would have been gaps in between classes where you can get off and have a rest and some of the time she would have been jumping so it is not continous riding her in an outline for 5 hours so that is completely different.

posie_honey said:
that was bought about because of the rolkeur debate ;)

i'm sure noone would be working a horse in an advanced outline for 3hrs straight! but on sunday my horse did 2 wh shows, 2 champion shows and supreme champion show - a total of 5 hrs riding her - she was still fresh as a daisy for the final show and had the stamina to do a fabulous last individ show and gallop that got us supreme show champs - yes in the line up she was relaxed but she was in an 'outline' for all warming up and in the shows - for her 1½hr daily rides i do most of that is in an outline of varying degrees but with also periods of one the buckle riding to let her stretch - but then she has the strength to do that - and its been a long process to get her to that point. i do not think she's a welfare case ;)
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I think when you are hacking your horse should be "on the bit" generally and the guide to that is the beware horses sign. That is a good illustration of a horse in a nice relaxed novice outline that is on the bit and tracking up without being over worked.

I think the problem is the use of the word outline, it has sadly come to mean horses which are often a little overbent and tight rather than relaxed working correctly, with the poll highest, the face in front of the vertical and on the aids.
 
SO1 said:
I think it is fine to hack out in an outline for short time periods but there may be possible issues relating to working in an outline for hours on end.

The FEI have issued stewards guidelines saying that warm up/pre competition training should not last longer than an hour so I guess there may well be welfare issues regarding riding in an outline for long periods of time otherwise I can't see why they would have introduced this rule - so if you are hacking out for three hours it might be a welfare issue if you spend all of that time working your horse in an outline.
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This is because of the rollkur / hyperflexion issue though.

TBH if your horse goes correctly then I would prefer to see a horse hacked out on the bit (correctly!) than slopping along looking "upside down" ie, not using himself, backend somewhere in the next town, head in the air with an upside down neck. It is actually easier for the horse to carry a rider when he works properly and IMO if you work your horse correctly more often then he will develop the right muscles.
 
I don't hack coco out that often but when we do go out I like to just relax and let him look round, in walk and trot. He usually puts himself into an outline after a little while anyway! To be honest an hour every couple of weeks just to plod about will not ruin my school work, and I know how he reacts to different situations so I'm definately not in danger with a looser rein! In canter I alternate between nice loose canter and a more collected one... And then we have a nice little gallop if we can find a good enough spot. He always survives and I've never known this method to damage our school work or jumping so I stick to it! I actually feel a bit sorry for the people who have to work in an outline on a hack to feel safe!
 
mine are always hacked in an outline, on a nice contact.

they might not always be in a competition outline but i always have a nice elastic contact even on long reins.

there is no point schooling 2/3 times a week and then letting your horse slop along on the forehand with a giraffe neck- good posture makes for a healthier body.
 
nope,

I expect mine to behave on a longish rein if there isn't any traffic about and take some responsibility for himself. He was a bit clingy when I got him! This works for the most part, I will take a contact if required or if on the A38 etc!

We dont have a school but ride in our field, if I couldnt do that I would probably do a bit more hacking or try and school elsewhere but tbh if we are ever having a lesson a week thats normally enough. (though that is very rare!) I don't hack in the bit I would want to school in anyway which is why I would tend not too as he wouldnt be working properly and correctly.
 
I never really ask for an outline when out hacking - hacking is my time to either chill on the buckle or go for a gallop.

Pony mainly does dressage so is asked to work in an outline in the school and will also go into an outline out hacking without me really asking but I'm not fussed about it - I only ask him for it if he's spooking or misbehaving.
 
I school out on hacks and when doing so my horses will work in an outline.

I get bored of constantly schooling in the arena and I'm pretty sure the horses do to, so I'll do some whilst out hacking. Nothing changes, they're warmed up and cooled down just as I would in the school. They still get their 'breaks' to allow them to stretch down and have a quick breather before doing a bit more. I'm lucky in respect I have plenty of off road hacking and quiet lanes to work with.

We don't always school though, but the horses remain in an 'outline' even if we're having a 'fun' hack. They drop into the outline themselves and nothing is forced onto them.
 
I hack on the buckle, hacking is ''down-time'' for my mare. I have an areana so I school in aswell and hacking is her chilling out time. If I didnt have an arena I would school out hacking instead.
 
see I wasnt convinced the one I saw hacking out the other day (beagler, no hi vis ;) ) in a double with its limp tongue hanging out of its mouth looked like it was having much fun.

tbh, frank would quite happily come up in an outline without discussion if I asked him too and mum will hack him out like that as she can't read him as well. but its good for him to learn how to nose poke a bit and watch the world go by and realise it wont eat him :D
 
I think you should always hack in an outline- because I am a snob and like people to think well of me and my horse!

At lease i'm honnest about it though! Lol

However I only ask for an outline on tracks and fields (for control), and when I am going through a village or where there are people that might see us (Snob! but this is also how I learned Passage- lots of showing yards to go past! Uber Snob!!). But on the roads when it is quiet I hold the buckel and let him stretch down. I also do lots of lateral movements!
I do nothing more than walk on the roads, all trots and canters are done on soft ground- this saves legs and prevents jarring.

Don't know if that help at all?!
 
sonjafoers said:
I think this is part of the problem Daisychain - I've always felt that hacking should be fun riding and the school is where we work seriously. However, with access to a school only once a week we seem to be having rather more fun and not enough work, so when I do ask her to listen & work she throws a complete strop. I've been through all the usual back, teeth, bits, saddle etc and my instructor feels she has just learnt to evade the contact because she doesn't want to do the work.
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This is the problem I have. I basically have no access to an arena at all. I have a large schooling field and I regularly hack but when I hack we go in an outline because otherwise he goes like a giraffe but also he walks much more positively and actively hacking and the muscle is produced better. The other problem I have is when I do go in a school he instantly goes Oh God mum, I can't be bothered ;) He instantly dies on me or goes completely the opposite way. Because of this I sound like a push over but there is no point trying to get him to do something if he doesn't want! Whereas he is a joy to school hacking so really for me there is no comparison!
 
I don't think it's safe to hack in a harbridge if there's roadwork involved because he horse can't get it's head up to balance if it trips or slips.

I tend to walk along on a loose rein and trot on a contact but not in a dressage outline.
 
Tempi said:
I hack on the buckle, hacking is ''down-time'' for my mare. I have an areana so I school in aswell and hacking is her chilling out time. If I didnt have an arena I would school out hacking instead.
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same here, more or less. i might 'pick the horse up' occasionally to have a little play in an outline for a little while, ask the horse to stretch, whatever, and i'll have a light contact in trot and canter most of the time, but i like my horses to learn to carry themselves and me without a contact, not to rely on me at all for balance, i find this very useful for xc tbh.
i was told years ago never to ask for a dr outline when hacking on the roads because most horses won't trust the surface and step under enough, they'll start working in a false outline (at best) and this is NOT what you're looking for... seemed like good advice to me.
 
My horse and I have an agreement - he can walk on a loose rein (buckle normally; he has a fantastic walk and is very good hacking :) ) and we Trot on a contact on the bit working correctly.

He is now beautiful to trot, lovely and light in my hand and going forwards into the contact, and very relaxed.


He is not going to improve fittness/ increase muscle if he trots up hill on a loose rein; he needs to be working correctly to ensure he gets the full benifit.
 
as we (me & horse) don't have access to a school & have to school in field which is on slop combined with ridge & forrow I use hacks a "relax" BUT the outward route is used for work i.e outline etc. Once we have turned for home then I work long & low. Seems to work for us. But as with all horses each to their own.
 
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