Hacking in the dark and liability?

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clipclop

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Does anybody know the answer to the question I have been asked.

Some of our employees are concerned about hitting a local rider who hacks out in the dark with little or no "Hi Viz" clothing on.

AS they are driving back from site to the yard I have had several complaints about them coming around the corner and then at the last minute seeing this "Stupid f***ing horse and rider,,,,,rant, rant, f'ing, blinding,,,"!! You get the picture.

Now, if this horse and rider were hit. Who's fault would it be?

I actually could not answer.

My Sister has had words with this rider about the problem but the rider says she wears high viz gear and she is intelligent?? Hmmm,,,I do wonder!!

The thing is high viz clothing isn't much good until the headlights hit it which is very last minute on our high hedged dark country lanes.

So what is the legal stance on this anyone??
 
Well I did wonder?

All I can say is thank god the nights are getting lighter!! This pain in my butt will be over for another 6 months or so.

I always get the moaning because I have horses!!
 
Well I would say that the horse rider is liable, as you dont see High Viz gear unless light hits it, so u wont see them until you come upon them, which given that they go at about 3mph adn a car 60mph+ would be pretty quick.
And given that a horse could spook in the dark and thats in its nature then its stupid to take them out when they can hardly see (well they wouldnt be too good with the changes from light to dark as this takes them a while to adjust to so im told)

Sometimes I wish plain stupidity was a punishable offence!
 
This is from the highway code. However it isn't the law (unlike not wearing a hat for under 14 yr olds, and riding on the pavement)!

35: Other clothing. You should wear

boots or shoes with hard soles and heels
light-coloured or fluorescent clothing in daylight
reflective clothing if you have to ride at night or in poor visibility.

36: At night. It is safer not to ride on the road at night or in poor visibility, but if you do, make sure your horse has reflective bands above the fetlock joints. Carry a light which shows white to the front and red to the rear.
 
I could'nt quite believe what I was reading, that a person hacks out just for pleasure in the dark! Why????

If it was a dire emergency I would do it with high viz and a car in front and behind. It would have to be a flood or something drastic to get me on board in the dark.

I was considering the possible liability of the yard, if an accident happened the place where the horse was kept would be on the legal papers and I wonder if they would be investigated as to co-operating allowing theme.

I would want the rider stopped from this habit as soon as
 
Thank you for looking that up
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It was very kind of you.
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Wasn't Puppy saying yesterday that as horse riders we are liable full stop if there is an accident? Which is why we should all have public liability insurance. Therefore surely if there was any type of accident this person would be liable regardless of what HV stuff she may be wearing.

Either way - bloody stupid!
 
Hmmm. Interesting.

I am going to have to investigate this in depth aren't I?

Nice and awkward, just what I need
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Oh well, I suppose it it saves a gang of our men going through the horrific experience of potentially killing a horse and rider.
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It has to be worth it.
 
It's not the horses vision I am worried about it is the men in charge of the vehicle trying to see a dark horse on a dark road. But I know what you are getting at.
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Thank you.
 
There is a girl who rides out round our way. She leaves her yard at 7.30, rain or shine. She does wear HiViz but its a bit old and not the most reflective of stuff. I am careful driving as now I am expecting her but its blinking dangerous. That time of the morning people are just rushing to get to work and she is either going to cause an accident or be involved in one. The unfortunate thing is that its her horse that will come off the worst
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There is no law that requires a horse ridden on the public highway to display illuminated lights.

I would suggest that the rider is reminded of the risk that she is taking to her horse, herself and other users of the public highway.

It would be possible to take legal action against the rider in the civil courts in the event of an accident.

As regards third party liability insurance. As a result of a recent case which went to the high court it was found that the owner of a horse is liable for any damage caused by the horse if the horse escaped from it's field etc. whatever the reason.

Owners of horses should ensure that their insurance policies cover them for no less than £10,000,000 (Ten million pounds) as far as public liability is concerned. Many riders do not have cover or cover to this degree which is risky.
 
Does she actually hack out in the dark, or is it just towards dusk? Just that it seems a strange thing to do. And does she or does she not wear hi-viz clothing?

Just because someone is careless and not particularly visible does not mean that it removes a driver's duty of care to hit them on the road. Drivers are still under a duty to look where they are going and drive at a suitable speed to avoid hazards. The Highway Code is not legally enforceable. Therefore if a negligent driver hit her they may still be liable although the damages may be reduced due to her contributary negligence.

If the driver sued or counter-sued her for damage to the car/personal injuries then there may be some grounds for a claim. This is the point of having third party liability insurance. Though this sort of claim would still depend very much on the circumstances, the driver's standard of driving, the road, the speed for the road, etc.. Yes Owlie185, strict liability of owners for damage caused by their animals is a long established legal principle and is also statutory, however I am not sure whether in such a scenario the potential damage could be said to be caused by the horse, as it would be the owner who would be getting sued personally for negligence and not in their capacity as a horse owner.

I would reiterate again that even if a horserider is not wearing hi-viz clothing, it certainly does not automatically mean that a driver can hit them and get off without impunity. If a driver is still driving negligently for the road conditions, then they will still be liable. Too many drivers use twisting country roads as race tracks and wouldn't be able to stop safely at any typical country road hazard that might present itself.
 
I've had to ride out in the dark on occassion, and I wore full high vis (vest, sheet for the horse, tape on boots, relective silk, stirrup light) It's not my idea of fun, but when it is dark before work, and dark again after work, and there was no field / school to ride in, I didn't have a lot of options. Going down country lanes, I wasn't any less visible than during the day (i.e. if someone came around the corner they would see me, albeit at short notice) If a driver is going around these sorts of corners, they should be driving at a speed that allows them to stop if there is something around the corner, be it a horse, bike, pedestrian. If somethign were to happen, my guess is that it would be difficult to prove either way, especially as they are now aware the horse may be there, so should be taking extra care.
 
ive ridden in the dark on occasion. i am fully (and i mean FULLY) decked out in hi viz and so many lights i looked like a christmas tree.

i pulled over to let a car past and the woman shouted out "excellent visibility, i could see you more and quicker than most horses i see in the daytime"

i dont make a habit of it and at the time it was when the nights were beginning to draw in and i was desperately trying to continue hacking after work but the dark was creeping up quickly - normally when i was about 5 or 10 mins from home

its not the best idea on twisty country lanes no, especially if the road isnt wide enough for you to shift over, but on well lit roads and with all the hi viz and lighting equipment you can get your hands on, i dont see a problem.

to go out in the dark or dusk with minimal hi viz is stupid and irresponsible
 
Why don't you call your local NFU office, they'd be able to clarify for you.

Actually...I might just give them a call in a minute anyway
 
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What a stupid thing to do - i would never think of riding out in the dark i would be petrified.

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Why is it stupid?

I ride out at least once a week, on the road, in the dark!
I am decked out in high vis, reflective and flashing lights. If anything, its probably safer as you can see the cars before you hear them and it gives you more of a chance to get out of the way.
I do it because I have to. Or I could only ride out at the weekends. Bit boring really.
 
The household cav hack out at 5 a.m. most winter mornings in central London - tis the only quiet time on the roads. Still, that is the exception to the norm and it is very risky to all doing it.
However, I bet those who do hack out in the dark, high-vizzed-up-to-the-eyeballs are more easy to see than the idiots from my yard who hack out on gloomy winter days on dark-coloured horses with NO pale or high-viz gear on at all!
 
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However, I bet those who do hack out in the dark, high-vizzed-up-to-the-eyeballs are more easy to see than the idiots from my yard who hack out on gloomy winter days on dark-coloured horses with NO pale or high-viz gear on at all!

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Indeed!!
 
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I am decked out in high vis, reflective and flashing lights.

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Now, that IS the way to be decked out when riding on the road in the dark if you give a damn about yourself and your horse
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Just as a side line - last week a jogger was killed near me. He was jogging in the dark down a country lane and was hit by a truck - he was wearing hi-viz gear.

The driver of the truck has been arrested for causing death by dangerous driving.....(maybe that always happens in fatal collisions so not suggesting the driver was liable)

Whoever is responsible he has left a devastated wife and children. The driver will probably be haunted by the incident forever.

Someone needs to speak to the horse rider, but also the truck drivers need to take care when driving round a blind bend - high viz or not could they stop. It could be a dog walker (my husband walks our dog before work...its dark!), a broken down car, a jogger, a fallen tree or a horse/rider. No-one wants to be killed, no-one wants to kill anyone else. Surely all are responsible for preventing that from happening.
 
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