Hacking with difficult horse

[Eve_ja]

I have a 8 year old cob mare who just wont hack alone. When we first brought her, hacking was fine, she would still spook but not as bad before. I dont know what has happened as it seems to be quite a recent thing of her refusing to hack alone. She can be quite dangerous now when trying to hack, she will bolt at certain points but does stop, she will spook and spin when not happy, and sometimes refuses to walk on and will back up and buck when you keep pushing. She hacks better with others, still spooks etc but is so much happier. She does love hacking and going out, but once in fields or on road its very difficult to calm or get hre going nice. I dont want to have to pay and arm and a leg to have a professional come try help her, but do really need help. I dont know what to do and want some advice on what would get her confident out hacking again?

 

[canteron]

It could be for many reasons, but lack of confidence is an obvious one.
So some thoughts, do you have a small area near to home, you can go round say 3 or 4 times, rather than venturing further afield, so this becomes a ‘safe’ area, and expand this only when it feels calm.
Secondly, and I appreciate not everyone agrees, sometimes I let my horse have a little ‘snack’ on a tree or something tasty , I just think it gives the horse a reason for going out!
Good luck

 

[jhoward]

Does the horse have a problem or the rider?.

 

[Melody Grey]

Sounds like this is about either horse/ rider confidence, and probably the interaction between the two. Find a short, circular route you can lead round, once confident in hand, get on a short distance from ‘home’ i.e at the end of the drive and then progressively further back.

Then do the same with the route in reverse (will be a completely new hack for most horses! ), then branching out a bit further on good days. Takes time, but worth it!

ETA: I used to drop a sturdy bucket off on my drive to the yard at my ‘get on place’ for that day with carrots inside.

 

[Eve_ja]

Does the horse have a problem or the rider?.

I’m a confident rider, but she does this with every person who I’ve had the get her going out.

 

[Eve_ja]

It could be for many reasons, but lack of confidence is an obvious one.
So some thoughts, do you have a small area near to home, you can go round say 3 or 4 times, rather than venturing further afield, so this becomes a ‘safe’ area, and expand this only when it feels calm.
Secondly, and I appreciate not everyone agrees, sometimes I let my horse have a little ‘snack’ on a tree or something tasty , I just think it gives the horse a reason for going out!
Good luck

Yeah, she enjoys going round half of a field at the start, easy and fine, but as soon we we go further she is completely on guard again.

 

[Eve_ja]

Sounds like this is about either horse/ rider confidence, and probably the interaction between the two. Find a short, circular route you can lead round, once confident in hand, get on a short distance from ‘home’ i.e at the end of the drive and then progressively further back.

Then do the same with the route in reverse (will be a completely new hack for most horses! ), then branching out a bit further on good days. Takes time, but worth it!

ETA: I used to drop a sturdy bucket off on my drive to the yard at my ‘get on place’ for that day with carrots inside.

She’s fine with going down a track and into the field, but then it’s completely different once in the fields or further along on the road

 

[smolmaus]

I'm going to be the one to say vet check time. If this is new or recently escalated behaviour then even low level pain can make them much less tolerant for things they previously found hard but doable. In my case it was bilateral stifle and hock issues, hard to spot visually but the difference when we got her medicated and comfortable was incredible.

 

[jhoward]

I’m a confident rider, but she does this with every person who I’ve had the get her going out.

I asked as the rider can be giving off signals they were not away of, you last few posts may highlight this... Fine to start the starts playing up.

Your be expecting it, and sub consciousness will come into play.

Try changing how your riding her Before she gets to the stage of playing you up, that could be riding stronger, a loose rein... Even singing to distract your self..

 

[HaplessHorse]

My cob isn’t that good out on her own (much better than my previous horse, but definitely not 100%). So everything involves lots of in-hand walks, and the odd human footsoldier to give her a hand, it’s time-consuming, but the plan is that by next winter she’ll have a few routes that I can alternate between where she’ll be fairly confident out and about.

If Erin stops dead and refuses to go further, I’ll ask a few times, do some lateral movements, and if that fails, I’ll get off and walk the route with her. Then she’s not “getting out of work”, she’ll be doing exactly the same amount of work, but I’ll be on the floor to give her that bit more confidence. I’m more likely to get off and walk in busier places because it’s just not safe to do all the lateral movements, but if I’m somewhere quieter I’ll keep offering her alternative tasks, and periodically asking her to move forwards until Erin feels confident enough to do so.

If you don’t already have some lateral movements in the bag, I’d suggest teaching it!

 

[Eve_ja]

I asked as the rider can be giving off signals they were not away of, you last few posts may highlight this... Fine to start the starts playing up.

Your be expecting it, and sub consciousness will come into play.

Try changing how your riding her Before she gets to the stage of playing you up, that could be riding stronger, a loose rein... Even singing to distract your self..

I’ve tried a few things, even in hand walking she is a pain. I’ve had one of my friends try, and also one of the liveries try but she plays up with everyone and I have no clue how to get her going nicely again.

 

[Eve_ja]

My cob isn’t that good out on her own (much better than my previous horse, but definitely not 100%). So everything involves lots of in-hand walks, and the odd human footsoldier to give her a hand, it’s time-consuming, but the plan is that by next winter she’ll have a few routes that I can alternate between where she’ll be fairly confident out and about.

If Erin stops dead and refuses to go further, I’ll ask a few times, do some lateral movements, and if that fails, I’ll get off and walk the route with her. Then she’s not “getting out of work”, she’ll be doing exactly the same amount of work, but I’ll be on the floor to give her that bit more confidence. I’m more likely to get off and walk in busier places because it’s just not safe to do all the lateral movements, but if I’m somewhere quieter I’ll keep offering her alternative tasks, and periodically asking her to move forwards until Erin feels confident enough to do so.

If you don’t already have some lateral movements in the bag, I’d suggest teaching it!

Thank you, I do try in hand walking her but it seems once she gets into that mindset she’ll just spiral.

 

[Eve_ja]

I'm going to be the one to say vet check time. If this is new or recently escalated behaviour then even low level pain can make them much less tolerant for things they previously found hard but doable. In my case it was bilateral stifle and hock issues, hard to spot visually but the difference when we got her medicated and comfortable was incredible.

She had had previous problems, so vet has been and there is nothing wrong. She’ll go fine in school but it’s a different horse out hacking.

 

[canteron]

If she is food motivated, just walk her in hand or ridden say a further 50 metres out of her comfort place and then let her graze, if that goes ok walk on a further 50m let her graze.

If that works next time increase the length before she can graze. (So it’s your choice not the horses choice).

If some of the horses brain is full of the thought of food, it helps them make sense of why they are going out of their safe space. (Let be honest most of us humans are the same, if we like the food we are happier to go somewhere!).

It does sound as if there is an element of separation anxiety? So slow progression and consistency is a good way.

 

[HaplessHorse]

Thank you, I do try in hand walking her but it seems once she gets into that mindset she’ll just spiral.

Seems like a bit of a conundrum? For a while, with mine, I had to literally teach her how to lead nicely, but out and about it seemed to fall out of her brain, so I had to walk out with a right setup!

I used a weighted leadrope through the “snaffle” bit if the Pelham (so the rope connected to itself, it is one of those safety brass twist-clip ones) and I’d have a set of reins on the leveraged part, which was in my other hand. I essentially had to train her to lead at home, and then train her to lead on hacks, which was an entirely different kettle of fish.

(On in-hand hacks) I would ask her to stand, with a cue on the snaffle rope, if she responded, click and treat. If the response was slightly delayed, but done within a couple of steps, I’d ask her to back up, and then click + treat.

If she didn’t respond to that, I’d tug on the snaffle rein harder, with 2 repeats, with similar protocol to the above, in terms of responses. She’d almost always respond at this point, unless she was actively spooked.

If she was spooked, I’d cue with a sharp tug on the snaffle rope, and with a gentler tug on the leveraged reins, again, similar protocols to the above in terms of rewards.

If she set her neck against me and dragged me, I’d repeatedly pull+release on the leveraged rein, with similar rewards once she’d stopped.

It sounds harsh, but it was realistically the only way I’d have been safe out and about, and I can now lead her out on the headcollar fastening of her bridle, and I only need to use a vocal “stand” cue to stop her in almost any situation. As backup, I have the reins on her snaffle, but I rarely need to use that now.

I don’t know if yours is in a similar situation, but hopefully that helps!

 

[Spotherisk]

Backing up is a red flag to me, since a vet told me horses will do it to avoid pain.

You could try…
Riding her out bare back - so saddle check and girthing check right there. You could ride her in the school like this first - do you school for at least as long as you hack? I’m thinking ulcers. A friends horse would go very nicely out hacking for about an hour and then explode - that was ulcers, and despite treatment he was never reliable and was retired.
Or you could try boxing up and doing a pleasure ride somewhere she hasn’t been before, with other horses, this would obviously be exciting and probably only to be attempted if she is guaranteed to be pain free.
People with way more experience than me might say hunt her, to get her forward.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I bought an ex-trekker who'd never hacked solo before I had him.

I did have the benefit of professional help, and what we did was forget about hacking for the present, and worked on his confidence with me as a rider and as his new Herd Leader.

We started off by doing basic groundwork: long-line work, and even more basic, making him move away from the pressure of my hand on his side. Basically like starting a youngster over again.

We then progressed to leading around, and built a little "TREC" course at home with stuff like ribbons, poles, etc., to build his confidence and get us both working together with some moderately scary stuff around.

We then led-out on the roads, dealing with traffic, people etc. We tacked up at one stage and led him with tack on.

All of which was confidence-building for us both, and getting him to trust me as his Herd Leader.

Then one day, we went out all tacked-up, and about half way around I hopped on and we rode home!! I would add that we ALWAYS without fail went in a circular route: luckily where we are this is easy, we have a lot of Devon lanes all of which are circular, of varying lengths, but my trainer said that taking them out in one direction and coming home the same way isn't ever going to do a nappy horse any good, not ever.

This particular horse did learn to hack out nicely on his own with me for a good few years, I kept him till the end, and he was a lovely boy - though he could be as quirky as a box of frogs when he felt like it!

 

[scats]

I’ve got lots of nappy and silly horses hacking out alone.
Some tips- get a foot soldier to assist you for a few routes. Try and do some short, circular routes (avoid turning back on yourself). Your friend walks along with you. Do these a few times a week so it becomes ‘normal’. If it’s a short route, maybe ride in the school first and use it to cool off.
Then pick a day and ask your foot soldier to follow behind about 20 yards and only come and help out if needed.

My current mare is a pressure on= rear so I have to completely remove all pressure. If she stops on a hack, I only ever use one leg at a time and I sort of wiggle in the saddle aswell rather than apply too much pressure from the leg or she just treats our neighbours to some impressive moves. When we’ve got well and truly stuck and she’s threatening to put me into ditches, on bonnets or whatever, I hop off with no fuss and lead her about 20 metres until I find a safe place to hop back on. The key thing is not to make a fuss about this or treat it like a big issue. Once they realise they are going the way you want regardless and you’re not getting stressed about it, they tend to very quickly get over themselves.
Bolting is not ideal. Switch to a stronger bit for hacking if need be. I had to hack in a kimblewick for a few years because Millie’s spooking was accompanied by bogging off and not stopping. She now hacks out and does farm rides in a snaffle.

Obviously I’m assuming you’ve had tack, soundness etc checked. Sudden changes in behaviour are likely due to a change in a horse’s physical comfort, a change in routine (moving yards/fields/stables/rider/getting attached to a new friend) or they’ve had a confidence knock and their safety siren is kicking in.

 

[Melody Grey]

I'm going to be the one to say vet check time. If this is new or recently escalated behaviour then even low level pain can make them much less tolerant for things they previously found hard but doable. In my case it was bilateral stifle and hock issues, hard to spot visually but the difference when we got her medicated and comfortable was incredible.

Agreed- had missed the part in the original post where horse used to be fine hacking, so my ‘method’ is really geared for those lacking confidence from the outset.

 

[4Hoofed]

Honestly to me sudden change in behaviour with no discernible cause? Vet time. Could be something silly like needing an adjustment, or soft tissue, or ulcers and the like. It may be the start so she’s only exhibiting symptoms solo hacking as right now staying with the herd or in “safe” spaces right now is helping her cope with symptoms?

If not I’d start from basics, obstacle courses etc in hand/then ridden and try build some confidence in you. Lots of character building exercises, maybe try some liberty work as something for you to learn together? Then try a route that’s new so no memory to fall back on… but I’d be medically investigating at the same time. All the good will in the world won’t help if something is upsetting her.

 

[Eve_ja]

If she is food motivated, just walk her in hand or ridden say a further 50 metres out of her comfort place and then let her graze, if that goes ok walk on a further 50m let her graze.

If that works next time increase the length before she can graze. (So it’s your choice not the horses choice).

If some of the horses brain is full of the thought of food, it helps them make sense of why they are going out of their safe space. (Let be honest most of us humans are the same, if we like the food we are happier to go somewhere!).

It does sound as if there is an element of separation anxiety? So slow progression and consistency is a good way.

I’ve started to in hand walk a lot more now, but she doesn’t like leaving yard

 

[Eve_ja]

Seems like a bit of a conundrum? For a while, with mine, I had to literally teach her how to lead nicely, but out and about it seemed to fall out of her brain, so I had to walk out with a right setup!

I used a weighted leadrope through the “snaffle” bit if the Pelham (so the rope connected to itself, it is one of those safety brass twist-clip ones) and I’d have a set of reins on the leveraged part, which was in my other hand. I essentially had to train her to lead at home, and then train her to lead on hacks, which was an entirely different kettle of fish.

(On in-hand hacks) I would ask her to stand, with a cue on the snaffle rope, if she responded, click and treat. If the response was slightly delayed, but done within a couple of steps, I’d ask her to back up, and then click + treat.

If she didn’t respond to that, I’d tug on the snaffle rein harder, with 2 repeats, with similar protocol to the above, in terms of responses. She’d almost always respond at this point, unless she was actively spooked.

If she was spooked, I’d cue with a sharp tug on the snaffle rope, and with a gentler tug on the leveraged reins, again, similar protocols to the above in terms of rewards.

If she set her neck against me and dragged me, I’d repeatedly pull+release on the leveraged rein, with similar rewards once she’d stopped.

It sounds harsh, but it was realistically the only way I’d have been safe out and about, and I can now lead her out on the headcollar fastening of her bridle, and I only need to use a vocal “stand” cue to stop her in almost any situation. As backup, I have the reins on her snaffle, but I rarely need to use that now.

I don’t know if yours is in a similar situation, but hopefully that helps!

Thank you!

 

[Eve_ja]

Honestly to me sudden change in behaviour with no discernible cause? Vet time. Could be something silly like needing an adjustment, or soft tissue, or ulcers and the like. It may be the start so she’s only exhibiting symptoms solo hacking as right now staying with the herd or in “safe” spaces right now is helping her cope with symptoms?

If not I’d start from basics, obstacle courses etc in hand/then ridden and try build some confidence in you. Lots of character building exercises, maybe try some liberty work as something for you to learn together? Then try a route that’s new so no memory to fall back on… but I’d be medically investigating at the same time. All the good will in the world won’t help if something is upsetting her.

We have had vet out, and had physio, all fine, but will try new hacking routes as we are lucky with lots of fields

 

[Eve_ja]

Backing up is a red flag to me, since a vet told me horses will do it to avoid pain.

You could try…
Riding her out bare back - so saddle check and girthing check right there. You could ride her in the school like this first - do you school for at least as long as you hack? I’m thinking ulcers. A friends horse would go very nicely out hacking for about an hour and then explode - that was ulcers, and despite treatment he was never reliable and was retired.
Or you could try boxing up and doing a pleasure ride somewhere she hasn’t been before, with other horses, this would obviously be exciting and probably only to be attempted if she is guaranteed to be pain free.
People with way more experience than me might say hunt her, to get her forward.

Yeah, vet said everything is fine, and her saddle has recently been fitted so need to try get her going out more like you said, in new places

 

[Eve_ja]

I’ve got lots of nappy and silly horses hacking out alone.
Some tips- get a foot soldier to assist you for a few routes. Try and do some short, circular routes (avoid turning back on yourself). Your friend walks along with you. Do these a few times a week so it becomes ‘normal’. If it’s a short route, maybe ride in the school first and use it to cool off.
Then pick a day and ask your foot soldier to follow behind about 20 yards and only come and help out if needed.

My current mare is a pressure on= rear so I have to completely remove all pressure. If she stops on a hack, I only ever use one leg at a time and I sort of wiggle in the saddle aswell rather than apply too much pressure from the leg or she just treats our neighbours to some impressive moves. When we’ve got well and truly stuck and she’s threatening to put me into ditches, on bonnets or whatever, I hop off with no fuss and lead her about 20 metres until I find a safe place to hop back on. The key thing is not to make a fuss about this or treat it like a big issue. Once they realise they are going the way you want regardless and you’re not getting stressed about it, they tend to very quickly get over themselves.
Bolting is not ideal. Switch to a stronger bit for hacking if need be. I had to hack in a kimblewick for a few years because Millie’s spooking was accompanied by bogging off and not stopping. She now hacks out and does farm rides in a snaffle.

Obviously I’m assuming you’ve had tack, soundness etc checked. Sudden changes in behaviour are likely due to a change in a horse’s physical comfort, a change in routine (moving yards/fields/stables/rider/getting attached to a new friend) or they’ve had a confidence knock and their safety siren is kicking in.

Yeah, I’m gonn start getting someone to come with me. She is currently in a universal bit, but everything physically and tack wise has been checked

 

[Eve_ja]

I bought an ex-trekker who'd never hacked solo before I had him.

I did have the benefit of professional help, and what we did was forget about hacking for the present, and worked on his confidence with me as a rider and as his new Herd Leader.

We started off by doing basic groundwork: long-line work, and even more basic, making him move away from the pressure of my hand on his side. Basically like starting a youngster over again.

We then progressed to leading around, and built a little "TREC" course at home with stuff like ribbons, poles, etc., to build his confidence and get us both working together with some moderately scary stuff around.

We then led-out on the roads, dealing with traffic, people etc. We tacked up at one stage and led him with tack on.

All of which was confidence-building for us both, and getting him to trust me as his Herd Leader.

Then one day, we went out all tacked-up, and about half way around I hopped on and we rode home!! I would add that we ALWAYS without fail went in a circular route: luckily where we are this is easy, we have a lot of Devon lanes all of which are circular, of varying lengths, but my trainer said that taking them out in one direction and coming home the same way isn't ever going to do a nappy horse any good, not ever.

This particular horse did learn to hack out nicely on his own with me for a good few years, I kept him till the end, and he was a lovely boy - though he could be as quirky as a box of frogs when he felt like it!

Thank you!

 

[Eve_ja]

I have a 8 year old cob mare who just wont hack alone. When we first brought her, hacking was fine, she would still spook but not as bad before. I dont know what has happened as it seems to be quite a recent thing of her refusing to hack alone. She can be quite dangerous now when trying to hack, she will bolt at certain points but does stop, she will spook and spin when not happy, and sometimes refuses to walk on and will back up and buck when you keep pushing. She hacks better with others, still spooks etc but is so much happier. She does love hacking and going out, but once in fields or on road it’s very difficult to calm or get hre going nice. I dont want to have to pay and arm and a leg to have a professional come try help her, but do really need help. I dont know what to do and want some advice on what would get her confident out hacking again?

She had been checked by vet for any new comments! Nothing is wrong and she has had physio aswell, so it is behaviour

 

[smolmaus]

Sorry to be the person to say this but too, but you can't ever really rule out pain. If you're happy with the investigations that have been done you don't have to change your approach and you're more than entitled to ask people not to go on about it but saying it can't possibly be pain related won't do you or the pony any favours. Behaviour is the only way they have to communicate. There are horses with "behavioural" problems that are only revealed to be physical problems at autopsy. Just helpful to keep that in the back of your mind!

 

[JenJ]

This.

Pain hasn't been ruled out; it just hasn't been found (yet?).

edit - was replying to smolmaus.

 

[Eve_ja]

Sorry to be the person to say this but too, but you can't ever really rule out pain. If you're happy with the investigations that have been done you don't have to change your approach and you're more than entitled to ask people not to go on about it but saying it can't possibly be pain related won't do you or the pony any favours. Behaviour is the only way they have to communicate. There are horses with "behavioural" problems that are only revealed to be physical problems at autopsy. Just helpful to keep that in the back of your mind!

Thanks, I do understand, I’ve had a few vets out now, and other things like physio, and they can’t see anything wrong. She is completely fine in school, lunging and walking up and down track, it’s just fields and roads once we get a certain way from yard.