Had a revelation last night!!

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NellRosk

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I've been having a few minor issues with my 5 year old, just general arsiness in the school. Didn't seem happy, was rushing her work and putting stops in, trying to go up etc. Basically doing whatever she could to avoid work! She has a habit of crossing her jaw/ opening her mouth and being strong so ride her with a flash or a grackle (if I'm jumping/ taking her out). I wasn't convinced her saddle fits but it's been checked and apparently it does. Anyway last night I tried a little experiment and rode her in a treeless saddle and took her noseband off so there was nothing interfering with her face. She went absolutely beautifully!!! So soft and relaxed, not rushing, lovely natural outline and soft mouth. I don't know if it's the saddle, the lack of noseband or a combination of both but I'm thrilled! Looking at treeless saddles now, can anyone recommend any? (ps how COMFY are they?? It was like sitting on clouds :o)
 
We found just this with ours. I think there s a lot of truth in the old adage that if you never give them anything to fight against then, generally, they won't fight.

We have a Barefoot Cheyenne, had it around 5/6 years now, used in conjunction with an HM memory foam seatsaver.Daughter loves it, horses all love it and we can swap it from one to the other by adding or taking away the panels in the pad (Prolite? Can't remember)
 
Interesting. Following a post on FB I tried using an American rope halter and 12ft line under my normal snaffle bridle yesterday and it made such a difference. I could keep the contact feather light and if he was arguing use the halter instead of his mouth, as well as using the halter to ask him to lighten his shoulders. He was so much more forward and responsive and I had enough in my hands to remind me not to over use the bit.
 
Interesting. Personally I would want to try original saddle with no nose band on the bridle, then nose band on with the treeless just to see if you can pinpoint exactly which was causing the issue. Also if you're not happy with the saddle get different saddlers out to check it over :)
 
It sounds more like saddle but I would do what LP said and try one or the other, in regards to saddle fitters I had two master saddlers out to check mine and both said the saddle was too wide, anyway I was not convinced as I thought my horse looked like he had muscle wastage behind the shoulder and thats why the saddle no longer fitted as it kept shooting forward, they both just said that he must have dropped weight, so I got someone else out and she confirmed that he did have wastage and that the saddle was infact too narrow, while I was waiting for my new saddle to be made I borrowed a treeless to ride in and my horse went amazing in it much more forward and just seemed much happier to be ridden, so I would get someone else to check the saddle.
 
Ladyinred said:
We found just this with ours. I think there s a lot of truth in the old adage that if you never give them anything to fight against then, generally, they won't fight.

We have a Barefoot Cheyenne, had it around 5/6 years now, used in conjunction with an HM memory foam seatsaver.Daughter loves it, horses all love it and we can swap it from one to the other by adding or taking away the panels in the pad (Prolite? Can't remember)
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Yes definitely! Especially as Nelly is quite a dominant moody mare so if you get her back up then she won't work for you. Thanks, I'll look into the Barefoot Cheyenne.. I'll have to get saving all the treeless saddles I've seen online have been quite pricey!

JillA said:
Interesting. Following a post on FB I tried using an American rope halter and 12ft line under my normal snaffle bridle yesterday and it made such a difference. I could keep the contact feather light and if he was arguing use the halter instead of his mouth, as well as using the halter to ask him to lighten his shoulders. He was so much more forward and responsive and I had enough in my hands to remind me not to over use the bit.
Click to expand...

Ooh that's an interesting method I hadn't thought of before. Glad it worked for you and your horse. Did you tie the 12ft line so it was like reins? (you know when you ride bareback with a headcollar and make 'reins' out the leadrope) Or did you just have it attached to the halter normally and hold it in one hand?

lottiepony said:
Interesting. Personally I would want to try original saddle with no nose band on the bridle, then nose band on with the treeless just to see if you can pinpoint exactly which was causing the issue. Also if you're not happy with the saddle get different saddlers out to check it over :)
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Yes lottiepony, good idea I was going to try this and see what it was that caused the change in behaviour. I do genuinely think it could have been a combination of both though. The saddle is currently at the shop having a tiny bit of flocking put in one side (saddler said it still fitted before this, but this would improve the fit) so I'll see if that makes any difference when I get it back.

Pinkvboots said:
It sounds more like saddle but I would do what LP said and try one or the other, in regards to saddle fitters I had two master saddlers out to check mine and both said the saddle was too wide, anyway I was not convinced as I thought my horse looked like he had muscle wastage behind the shoulder and thats why the saddle no longer fitted as it kept shooting forward, they both just said that he must have dropped weight, so I got someone else out and she confirmed that he did have wastage and that the saddle was infact too narrow, while I was waiting for my new saddle to be made I borrowed a treeless to ride in and my horse went amazing in it much more forward and just seemed much happier to be ridden, so I would get someone else to check the saddle.
Click to expand...

Thanks pinkvboots, as I said before I think it could be a combination of both as when I rode her in the flash or grackle she was constantly fighing the contact and shaking her head about and being very hard in the mouth. And when I took the grackle off she was so much softer and more responsive! But yes, deffos think it could be the saddle as well. I'll get someone else out when I get it back from the shop and see what they say. :)
 
I noticed an immense difference in my gelding when I took his noseband off. I did buy him a Barefoot treeless saddle years ago but didn't really like it. A saddler commented that a lot of horses he saw appeared to prefer treeless saddles initially but then began having problems after a while. It could be that if the saddle isn't comfortable then a treeless may seem like an improvement on the old saddle. Before splashing out on a treeless, get the saddle and back checked first as it may save you money.
 
Hidalgo saddles are very popular in this country as they look like a regular saddle but have a soft leather tree and panels underneath like a treeless. They're quality made and very sturdy, which justifies the middle-high (£800-£1100) price range :)

Star-Trekk/Deuber & Partner have some very beautifully made treeless saddles that are fully adjustable, but are more western/academic inspired. Again they're extremely high quality and very popular here, but pricey (£1200-£2500).

Trekker are also popular, I've loaned their 'True Talent' model which is a great distance saddle and it did exactly what it says on the tin and I could adjust it to fit my mare, mount from the ground and all sorts. Very comfortable, still good quality, prices are in the middle range (around £700).

Happy saddle hunting!

Edit: in the end I settled for a flexible tree saddle rather than completely treeless. With all the treeless saddles I tried I found the saddle doesn't sit quite as still (the cheaper varieties move about all over the place!) and you don't sit as close to the horse as they like to claim if you have the proper amount of padding underneath. It left me feeling a bit perched and my position wasn't great. Then again I haven't tried any of the highly recommended brands like Sensation or Ansur because they are well out of my price range, so that could be it.
 
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The Barefoot Drytex isn't too expensive new. :) ETA - if you do get something like a Barefoot, don't forget that you need the special pad/numnah that goes with them.

I do dream about being able to afford a new Solution Smart saddle.
 
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dogatemysalad said:
I noticed an immense difference in my gelding when I took his noseband off. I did buy him a Barefoot treeless saddle years ago but didn't really like it. A saddler commented that a lot of horses he saw appeared to prefer treeless saddles initially but then began having problems after a while. It could be that if the saddle isn't comfortable then a treeless may seem like an improvement on the old saddle. Before splashing out on a treeless, get the saddle and back checked first as it may save you money.
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Yeah I'm going to get it checked when I get it back off the saddler, thanks :)

fattylumpkin said:
Hidalgo saddles are very popular in this country as they look like a regular saddle but have a soft leather tree and panels underneath like a treeless. They're quality made and very sturdy, which justifies the middle-high (£800-£1100) price range :)

Star-Trekk/Deuber & Partner have some very beautifully made treeless saddles that are fully adjustable, but are more western/academic inspired. Again they're extremely high quality and very popular here, but pricey (£1200-£2500).

Trekker are also popular, I've loaned their 'True Talent' model which is a great distance saddle and it did exactly what it says on the tin and I could adjust it to fit my mare, mount from the ground and all sorts. Very comfortable, still good quality, prices are in the middle range (around £700).

Happy saddle hunting!

Edit: in the end I settled for a flexible tree saddle rather than completely treeless. With all the treeless saddles I tried I found the saddle doesn't sit quite as still (the cheaper varieties move about all over the place!) and you don't sit as close to the horse as they like to claim if you have the proper amount of padding underneath. It left me feeling a bit perched and my position wasn't great. Then again I haven't tried any of the highly recommended brands like Sensation or Ansur because they are well out of my price range, so that could be it.
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Thanks so much for this, really helpful as I don't have the first clue about treeless saddles and makes etc! I'm not sure which one I used on her last night, it's my sharers' and she said she got it for £500 second hand and it's really really comfy.

Faracat said:
The Barefoot Drytex isn't too expensive new. :) ETA - if you do get something like a Barefoot, don't forget that you need the special pad/numnah that goes with them.

I do dream about being able to afford a new Solution Smart saddle.
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Thanks Faracat, I presume you just get the pads from the company that sells the saddle? Do you get different pads for different width horses?
 
NellRosk said:
Ooh that's an interesting method I hadn't thought of before. Glad it worked for you and your horse. Did you tie the 12ft line so it was like reins? (you know when you ride bareback with a headcollar and make 'reins' out the leadrope) Or did you just have it attached to the halter normally and hold it in one hand?
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Yes, like a pair of reins, both ends tied to the loop under the jaw the passed over the head, and held in both hands like a double. Rope on top of normal leather reins from his usual fulmer snaffle.
 
RE Barefoot saddles they have a zip at the front so that you can insert different width inserts or you can put a soft insert in. You do need to use the proper Barefoot numnahs with them and they have velcro sections so that you can put different pads inside the numnah. I have the memory foam pads in mine.

With treeless and soft tree saddles, always get a well known name not a cheapo one from ebay (or other sites). It's far better to get a decent 2nd hand one if the new price is too much.
 
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