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Toast

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Ive posted time and time again about my youngsters kicking habit when fed. No matter what i do he's still lashing out at the wall with some serious force and im beginning to worry about his legs.
Hes done this ever since he was tiny. Feed goes in the stable and he'll stand to one side, put his head in the bucket then buck, and kick out hell for leather at the wall.. more often than not hitting it, and recently its got considerably more forceful, to the point where chunks of breezeblock are chipping off!
Someone suggested moving his haynet, as it was touching his bum and i thought this might be what was causing the upset so i moved it...same reaction.
Ive tried getting him to stand in a different direction..he'll just move. And theres no use trying to hit him or take a whip to him..that is unless you have a death wish. My Yard owner and a few people have suggested trying to floor him when he does it, though this would involve grabbing a leg mid kick while its aimed at my head, and some serious man power!!!
So.. tomorrow im going to try feeding from a bucket that hangs over the door so his head is higher up and hopefully making it harder for him to buck. Failing that i dont know what i will do.
Ive asked my yard owner if her husband will put some rubber matting on the walls. She said he could, but as the blocks are hollow it'll be a hard job.
She also suggested trying to scare him when he kicks out, to deter him? but it'd have to be something mighty scary i think. Has anyone any suggestions?
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My old loan horse did this and we ended up putting the cube part of his dinner in a play ball so he had to concentrate more on his dinner rather than it staying in one place . Gradually we started putting v v small amounts of chaff in a bowl (literally one or two mouthfulls) - which seemed to help reduce the kicking out.
 
Oh i forgot to mention the ball haha, we've used a ball, now if the ball even goes empty in his stable we get met with flying legs.
Missshell - He doesnt do it so much when hes being fed out of the stable, but theres often lots of people on the yard in the evening, and i have 3 to do, i couldnt stand watching him eat an entire feed (slow slow eater!!) to make sure nobody got hurt, it'd add an extra half hour onto the time it takes to get everyone done!
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Could you maybe feed him in the field whilst you sort the other two then get him in.....if you have a spare field on the yard where he can be fed without the worry of kicking someone that is......
I would try a bucket over the door of the stable first. Might sound daft but could you try putting a ball or something in his bucket? Then he has to concentrate on eating around it rather than kicking out?!!
 
We dont have winter turn out and theyve just come in for winter. It wasnt so much of a problem til now, he used to do it last winter but not as violently.. this year its returned with a vengeance!

I could definitely try the ball in the bucket!! i'll give that a go
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Do you bring them in for the night? If they go out after feeding can't you leave him in the field with a bucket? Or put him in a fenced off enclosure of menage with bucket in the middle?
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This may be something he developed before you got him, but it's got to be stress related in some way. I would guess that maybe he doesn't feel he has enough space around him when he's fed. Some horses don't like the proximity of other horses or people, and if that's something they developed at a young age, then that's just the way it is. Even if the other horses are in stables next door, the horse eating knows they are there. He's only young, he may be anticipating that the older horse might push him off his food. Do your stables have solid walls, or grills, windows or similar?
I wouldn't allow anyone to try to physically intervene, and to start thinking of throwing him down would be complete cruelty. If people (including you) are hanging about watching him and worrying about him kicking the wall then stop. He needs more space, the more the better.
I suppose I have to say that all the time I'm typing this I'm thinking that no turnout for the winter isn't ideal for a youngster. Not physically, and in the case of yours, possibly not mentally either. The fact that he did it last year and is worse this year tends to reinforce that feeling for me.
By the way, I suspect that putting his food in toys or trying to make it more fiddly for him to eat could make this worse.
Hmmm... if you have to keep him in all winter then I would try getting him in a stable at the end of the block, so he will only have a horse on one side of him. Hopefully have him in a position where he'll have as much peace as possible, not horses and people passing by all the time. Then I'd do something to the wall to try to protect his legs. I'd let him in for his feed and then walk away and leave him. It might take a while for him to stop kicking, but I'd tough it out for a while just leaving him in peace.
You could also feed his hay on the floor, so he doesn't get tickled by the net. That is much better for his developing muscles anyway.
Bottom line is, I would find somewhere he could be out, at least in the daytime, in company of horses of a similar age.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
Woeisme - we dont have winter turnout as such but they have a 'playpen' that he goes out in for as long as i can possibly leave him out, as i also dont agree with a youngster being in!
As for the kicking being something happening early in life, im led to believe it is. His dam was not the most maternal, and would batter him for trying to pinch her feed.. im under the impression he thinks this is what he should do too, as mum did it to him.
Our stables are made of breezeblocks, he has a window at the back but can only see our other pony who lives next door if he has his head over the door.
I have found hes better if we just leave him to it, i tend to throw the bucket in and get out of his sight asap!
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Sorry, I've just re-read your post. It really feels as if there is too much going on. Don't let anyone hang around and no shouting, whips, or trying to scare him. You need to deal with the cause, not the symptoms. Please just bear in mind that young horses in particular need to be fed at ground level, so is a bucket on the door a great idea? I have a strong feeling that peace and quiet is at least part of the answer.
 
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I think Toast bred this youngster? (Toast isn't it the youngster in your siggi)?
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Yes it is the youngster in my sig, i didnt breed him but bought him as a weanling at 5 months
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[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I've just re-read your post. It really feels as if there is too much going on. Don't let anyone hang around and no shouting, whips, or trying to scare him. You need to deal with the cause, not the symptoms. Please just bear in mind that young horses in particular need to be fed at ground level, so is a bucket on the door a great idea? I have a strong feeling that peace and quiet is at least part of the answer.

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Nobody generally tends to hang around, our stables are in the corner of an L shaped block, so hes away from general noise, theres only me, and our other pony there, and like i said once ive dropped his bucket in i leave him to it and feed number 3 over the other side of the yard. But i agree, since getting out of his sight asap he has been better.
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we dont have winter turnout as such but they have a 'playpen' that he goes out in for as long as i can possibly leave him out, as i also dont agree with a youngster being in!

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How long is that for per day? When he gets turnout, is he out with other horses?

I too would be worried about such a young horse spending too much time in the stable, and not socialising enough.
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Do you know if it varies depending on which horses are stabled near him?

My mare use to kick the wall when next to a certain couple of horses, but she doesn't do it when next to her friends.
 
I never put him out on his own, ideally he goes out with a friends youngster, but if not usually the yard owners gelding or one of our mares.
i get up there early enough for at least 2 hours in the playpen, though yard contract states we're only allowed half an hour each! i am looking for winter turnout but while that is like golddust i will have to make do
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[ QUOTE ]
Do you know if it varies depending on which horses are stabled near him?

My mare use to kick the wall when next to a certain couple of horses, but she doesn't do it when next to her friends.

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He's always been the same sadly
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Does he do it if his feed is not in a bucket but spread perhaps in small piles in the stable? Perhaps you could put it in the stable when he is out in his playpen so he cant anticipate it or see it coming and then just lead him in and walk away? Perhaps before any of the other horses are in or being fed? Obviously I'm not quite sure of your set up/ bedding type etc so may not work? Hope something works though! Good luck!
 
one of mine does this too fwiw, if anyone looks at her or goes near her when she's eating. my solutions: always feed her first, in a field on her own (get others into a separate part at least 50 yards away.)
in stable - i've put her in a huge stable (15' x 15') so that she can't boot the wall, it's too far away. she's fed with bucket in corner away from other horses, and they're fed in opp corner to her too. i always feed her first, and this has alleviated a lot of the stress and she ever hardly kicks out now.
interestingly, if i go into the stable to muck her out while she's eating, she doesn't do it, it is only against the imagined threat of another horse taking her feed.
hope that helps a bit. i don't think throwing anything at him will help, he's stressy, that's why he's doing it, chucking stuff will only make him worse imho.
 
he tends to kick the bucket over and spread it all over the floor himself :P still kicks out!
Ive also tried putting his feed in beforehand, and i stopped because i got cornered rather swiftly and almost got my leg broken.. the air was blue :P
Ah.. whod have em!
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Yes, I would definitely move to another yard. That little turnout for a youngster is asking for behaviour problems and stable vices.
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