Had enough!

When I got my TBxwelshD one March, she was a nightmare at feedtime, very 'proud' of any feed in a bucket and not much better with hay. Over the summer we fed her and her bossier companion (incidentally a very spotty Appaloosa) in the field by holding buckets for them over the wall, with plenty of room between them. If she wanted the feed she had to put up with me holding the bucket. She did get used to it and eventually (over years)got so good about feedtime that when they came in for the first time each winter she would bring me a mouthful of hay to 'share'. Obviously now is not a good time to start a de-sensitisation programme, so I would agree with those who suggest leaving in peace but maybe you could think about getting him used to people near his food (whilst keeping yourself out of harm's way) at a later date.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chorley brighthair
x

[/ QUOTE ]

ah, explains a bit! I know Rivington and outlying areas are difficult to get all year turnout in. I know of one yard I think that has more turnout but it's Adlington way

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, turnout is sparse around here. And im loathe to move them unless i can get a field to rent, because i have three one of which is withchild.. so eventually four!
x
 
Toast hun, I think it's a deep seated anxiety. The more you address it in a way that will make him MORE anxious, the more anxious he'll get and the harder he'll kick the walls. TBH, with the no winter turnout thing, I'd start by moving. That's so desperately unnatural for a horse, it will add to his anxiety levels. I'd start by not getting anxious yourself - your ned will pick that up in 5 seconds flat. Then I'd begin his training by doing something that will surprise the life out of him by being so unexpected. Be brave and HOLD his feed bowl to your chest when you go in to feed him. Stand there quietly looking at the ceiling and humming a tune. The INSTANT he kicks, turn round and walk out with the feedbucket. Don't speak to him, don't touch him. Just walk out. Wait outside keeping your back to him and not reacting to any temper tantrums from him. After 2 mins, go back in with the feedbucket as before. Don't speak, don't threaten, don't cajole. Hold it to your chest again. Hum to yourself and think happy thoughts. First kick, walk out as before. Don't speak or shout or anything. Just walk out. 2 minutes without speaking, then go back in. Keep this up as long as it takes. It may take 2 hours to feed him a single feed on day one but if you are TOTALLY consistent and NEVER allow the smallest kick and as you get better at it, not even a shifting of weight ready to kick. One thing I would do the day you start this training (that's all it is) is to divide his meals into 6 tiny feeds. That gives you 6 training sessions on Day 1. As long as you are resolute that you will do this for as long as it takes and at the first sign of sliding back to old habits, start it again, I pretty much guarantee you'll win in the end.
 
Thankyou box_of_frogs, thats probably the most constructive advice ive had yet! Do you think the deep seated anxiety is him thinking his feed will get taken?
Looks like i'll be spending a lot of time at the yard haha. But if it pays off then im willing to try anything
Thankyou
x
 
You could wonder what caused it til the cows home home hun but it won't get you any closer to the truth and it won't change how you have to tackle it. So I'd just take a huge deep breath and let it all go. I think you're getting (understandably!) anxious at feed times now so you need to give your ned reassurance and not join in with HIS anxieties. You're right - until you have this sorted the millions of tiny feeds thing will be time consuming but if it sorts it out and results in a happier you and a happier ned it will have all been worth it. And he might surprise you by how quickly he works out the rules! Here's ned's thoughts: My feed arrives. My happy, relaxed mummy is holding it. That's a surprise! I start to eat it and I get that awful scared and angry feeling and I can't help kicking out. Hang on a minute! Every time I kick out, mummy + tea disappear!!!! Hmmm. Have to try to train mummy to stand there til I've finished by NOT kicking.

When you start making progress, don't end the sessions too fast or he might go back to his old ways. Just wind it down slowly. It might take 1 day. Might take a week. But the golden rule is you have to be totally consistent. The first time you can't be bothered and don't leave if he kicks, he will think the rule is SOMETIMES she walks out and SOMETIMES she doesn't, so I'll try kicking the wall harder to see what happens..... Good luck hun xxx
 
Thankyou very much! i'll get on with that tomorrow
laugh.gif

x
 
Great advice there from BOF. Just keep yourself self in case he tries to get aggressive with you to begin with. Could you maybe use one of the feed bowls which clip on to the door for this? Then you are not within striking distance? Just a thougt anyway.
 
I'd just pop him in stable then pop his food in on the floor just inside the door and shut the door and leave him to it and go and do your other horses. You don't say whether you get him in first or last if he's left till last that could be the problem.
 
Does he have his own feedbowl or do you share the feed bowl with other horses?

I would suggest it sounds like an anxiety issue and by trying to stop him reacting to the stimuli (feed bucket) you're making it worse.

I personally would make sure the feed bowl is his, and his only. The issue is with him eating from the bowl so we need to change his behaviour on how he reacts when his head is in the bowl. I would go back to basics, start with some real groundwork - it will take time but it'llbe worth it in the end. You need to encourage him to change his attitude to the feedbowl by rewarding him for correct behaviour.

Start by introducing the feedbowl at non meal times, if he sniffs it - reward him, if he sniffs it and turns "aggressive" don't reward him. Any sort of good movement towards the bowl, whether it's a step forward - reward him, but do not reward him for bad behaviour - ignore him. Do not punish him, do not even talk to him. Then keep repeating. Once he's comfortable in an open area with the feed bowl and has started to put his head in it without causing aggression, move to a smaller surrounding area, then repeat the process, until finally you can have the feedbowl in his stable without him kicking out.

Also what type of feedbowl does he have? Can he see out of it quite happily? Might be another issue as well.

Sorry if some of it doesn't make sense, but i'm all for conditioning good behaviour and ridding of bad behaviour through a reward scheme - plus itll build a stronger bond between you and him.

ETS - also having the stable door open so he can see out might be helpful, as it might be a problem with not being able to see what's going on outside.
 
I know you like BOF's advice, I wouldn't recommend it though.
grin.gif

Maybe taking some sort of direct training action suits your personal style (ie some of us need to be up and doing when there's a problem). Your youngster has anxieties around feed time, and by making a training exercise of feeds you could easily make that worse. Also, you said earlier that you didn't have time to feed him outside the stable and wait for him to finish, so would you have time to do this? It wouldn't be sorted in a day, if it sorted it at all.
I used to work for an equine behaviourist, and she helped me when my youngster developed anxiety at feed time. In my case, my horse got aggressive, lunging over the door if anyone walked past while she had her tea. She also used to lift up a front leg and slam it down while eating. The answer was as I've said - to leave her alone. Rome isn't built in a day, it takes weeks and weeks of leaving them alone, but then one day you realise that they are more relaxed. I also used homeopathic remedies, but you'd need to get an expert to advise on that. I am fortunate in that all of my horses are registered with Tim Couzens, the holistic vet. I believe Chris Day covers your area.
However, I wouldn't expect too much of your horse until you can get some proper turnout for him. Even if that meant finding grass livery at a stud where he could live out with other youngsters and you could just do stuff with him at weekends, that is what I'd do. Proper turnout and socialisation are so important for young horses, try to avoid the problems before they come to you.
So much can go wrong with a youngster, I know this to my cost. My horse came to me at 6 months old straight from weaning, and the biggest lesson I learnt from her trials and tribulations is that foals and livery yards don't mix. If I ever get a baby again it will only be if I can be in control of their environment.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
smile.gif
 
I have to say i agree with Woeisme. My lad did this as a 6 year old whenever his feed was in the stable he was unsettled and would kick the wall and pull faces. I use to just feed him then leave him alone, he is now 12 and i can muck out round him swap his rugs etc but he is still slight un settled so unless necessary i always leave him alone when he is eating and understand that it is his time and space.
 
A friend of mine had a youngish horse that did exactly the same at feed times only, and for various reasons she was pretty sure it was an aggressive behaviour. She stopped it by hanging empty fabric conditioner bottles on strings at varying heights on the target wall. The horse lashed out, caught the bottles which made a real clatter as they swung about and got crushed - horse got a fright but wasn't hurt - and after a couple of times never did it again.

I appreciate this isn't the way to solve the problem if it's a deep-seated anxiety.
 
I'd need to go and watch really, but from a distance I would be cautious about recommending anything other than trying to avoid the problem. Protecting the walls/his hooves is a really good idea, but if you put the bottles up you could flood him. Then you've really got a problem.
Probably if I visited I wouldn't change my advice, because most of the time these things just end up being down to a horse being a horse. So you are talking lack of turnout, socialisation, "personal" space etc.
 
Just a thought...have you tried closing the top stable door? (sorry if you have already covered this, I tried to read the whole thread but may have missed it). It may give him a greater sense of privacy.
 
My horse was exactly the same - very aggressive with food - he would try and kill you if you entered the stable with a feed bowl.

I taught him to back up as soon as he saw the bowl. He had to remain back until I put the bowl down (just inside the door). As soon as he raised a leg I said "no". If he kicked the bowl got taken away.

It took about 3 weeks for him to learn not to kick when I was in the stable. After about 6 months I could walk away and he wouldnt kick out.

Now he would only get upset when another horse walks past when he is eating, but all he does is raise a leg.

It is just training - they soon learn if you are consistent with your handling. I treat all my horses like this though - I dont like the ones that attack you at the door as soon as they see the bowl.
 
QR

I think that fab advice from B_O_F.

I wouldn't have a clue how to deal with anything like this, and really feel for you. But if I did, I think I'd try using this method first.

Good luck!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Throw water on him every time he does it. It my scare him into stopping.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that's a very good idea. It's only going to make him more flightly when he's already unsettled and feeling threatened in his stable. Not a good move, especially with a youngster
crazy.gif
 
We had a mare that did this at feed times, alot and with a hell of a force.

An old chap suggested that we fill an old fairy liquid squeezy bottle with water and squirt it at her everytime she did it.

Worked a treat. Occassionally she will go to do it again, we get the bottle out and she stops the minute she sees it.
 
Oh blimey, he's not being aggressive, so why treat him as if he is? Water bottles etc, why punish him for being stressed? He's a young horse, just leave him some time and space to sort it out for himself.
As for closing the top stable door, I wish stables never had top stable doors.
frown.gif
 
Hi guys, thought id give you all an update on harveys dinner time behaviour!!
Today, breakfast time i was rushing, was just me on the yard and nobody else around.. feed went in, left him to it to fill my nets and although he was a lot less stressed, he did still take it out on the wall.
So, this evening i brought sisters up to do the other two so i could focus on him. i fed him with the door open, me holding the bucket, and not a peep out of him, no pulling of faces no kicking, not even the customary stamping of a front foot! I was so pleased! I gradually lowered the bucket til it was on the floor, i left him and left the door open too. Happy as larry!

I completely understand that while this is a breakthrough he is in no way 'cured' I am however pleased with tonights result and will continue to work with him
smile.gif

Thankyou for all your help and comments!
x
 
Thanks for posting this Toast, my mare does exactly the same. The difference being she does have daily turnout!! Will try the holding the bucket method, and go from there. But really, they sound identical in their behaviour!!
smirk.gif
 
Hi Toast,

aren't you having a good time, have not read all suggestions, but the only and I mean only bad habit, my beloved Mouse had (18 hands on a good day) was kicking out behind when fed, I finally realised that he was actually kicking to show how much he was enjoying his feed, DUH to me.....the only thing I could do, after all he was not trying to hurt anyone, was making his stable bigger....it was suggested by my OH (trying to save his credit card again) that hanging large hessian bags of straw in the area where kicks landed, might do the same job...they were easier to hang, as he (desperate to save credit card!!) put screws into wall with butterfly screws, whatever they are....it did work as saved Mouse's hocks, until larger stable was eventually built.. Hope you find solution. PS do not punish, as I am sure you won't, softly softly catchy monkey.......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top