Had new horse for about 3 months, advice please!

islandspirit

islandspirit

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I lost my previous horse in October of last year after a long battle to bring him sound after an op for KS. I knew that I wanted another horse straight away for many reasons, and found a lovely boy in early December, we just clicked. But I really need some advice as we've had a few problems and I'm struggling to separate them out and work out a way forward. Problems so far are;

1. When I first got him he was ridden in a cherry roller, I want to do some dressage so want to use something dressage legal and put him in a NS loose ring that I already had, very heavy in hands and putting tongue over bit. Had his teeth done which were awful and tried my universal and over a couple of weeks he no longer pure his tongue over the bit but I feel the bit isn't right but don't know what to try!!

2. His saddle didn't fit properly and his back is sore where the panels ended towards the back of the saddle. I've had a new saddle fitted and plenty of physio on his back but the patches are still tender! He won't work long and low, tries but won't stretch all the way down either whilst being ridden or on the lunge. I don't think he knows how to!

3. Has, what I think is 2 sarcoids come up on his neck??

4. Last weekend came in with enlarged lymph nodes behind the jaw and underneath and felt very sorry for himself. Luckily the vets were visiting the yard on Monday and gave him the once over and blood tested and concluded it was a virus. Glands are still up now but he's bit happier as well as temp being normal but he is very sore all over and his hind quarter muscles are very taught!

Sorry it's a bit of a long winded post, as I said I'm a bit confused and don't know what to do for the best!

I should also mention that he passed a 5 stage vetting and I asked for particular attention to be paid to the back as I had just lost a horse with this kind of problem and as he is grey the vet checked all over for sarcoids.

Help :(
 
Only suggestion I have is re the sore back. Carrot / polo stretches. Whatever his favourite treat is offer him with it so he has to stretch down and left and right. You're doing a great job with his care sorting out teeth, saddles etc etc so don't be so hard on yourself. I've had great advice on here for bitting so I'll leave that advice for others :)
 
carefreegirl said:
Only suggestion I have is re the sore back. Carrot / polo stretches. Whatever his favourite treat is offer him with it so he has to stretch down and left and right. You're doing a great job with his care sorting out teeth, saddles etc etc so don't be so hard on yourself. I've had great advice on here for bitting so I'll leave that advice for others :)
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Thank you , thank you for your kind words, I can be a bit hard on myself and am so worried that disaster will strike twice that even when I'm sensible with myself I don't believe it:-) we are doing daily carrot stretches, weapon of choice are badmington high fibre nuggets, don't know a horse that doesn't love them, he is also having regular massages as I have become quite good at them after a year of caring for a post op back but I just can't seem to shift the sore spots. A friend lent me a book on how to strengthen your horses core and we pretty much do all the exercises in the book.
 
MeganLindsx said:
I just re read the end, is there any chance that he could have melanomas?
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I'm not sure :-( I have not dealt with sarcoids etc before. Over a period of a couple of weeks he has a had small lump appear half way up his neck and about 3 inches blow the crest and another has started to appear next to it. They are both raised, circular, grey in colour. What is the difference between a sarcoids, a wart and a melanomas and could any be associated with getting a virus??
 
Sarcoids are a tumor like growth where the skin cells over multiply but these are normally very superficial and common. They can appear flat and dark, raised and crusty looking or like little raised lumps . Melanomas are extremely common with grey horses and is a form of skin cancer due to sunlight but they rarely cause problems for the horse. They are like under skin lumps. Not too sure on warts but none of these are normally associated with getting a virus and shouldn't really affect the horses well being. If you are worried you could get the vet to have a look. If it is a sarcoid they can normally treat them :)
 
MeganLindsx said:
Sarcoids are a tumor like growth where the skin cells over multiply but these are normally very superficial and common. They can appear flat and dark, raised and crusty looking or like little raised lumps . Melanomas are extremely common with grey horses and is a form of skin cancer due to sunlight but they rarely cause problems for the horse. They are like under skin lumps. Not too sure on warts but none of these are normally associated with getting a virus and shouldn't really affect the horses well being. If you are worried you could get the vet to have a look. If it is a sarcoid they can normally treat them :)
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Thank you for the explanation, been looking all over the Internet and couldn't find out the difference :) I think these look more like sarcoids but im certainly not an expert! A vet is visiting the yard on Thursday so I will ask them to take a look but will also mention it on the phone to the vet tomorrow as I'm due to call and give a progress report on the virus.
 
Melanomas are extremely common with grey horses and is a form of skin cancer due to sunlight but they rarely cause problems for the horse.
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Grey horse melanomas are generally benign and usually occur around the anus of the horse. I was told by a Vet once that there are often more along the digestive tract (inside the horse), so I don't think that they are caused by sunlight in the way that human skin cancer is. ;)

When is a wart a wart and when is it a sarcoid.

WARTS
Warts should be defined as the infectious disease cutaneous papillomatosis, which occurs in young horses.

The warts (papillomata) appear on the nose and, less commonly, on other parts of the body, as small, hard, raised lumps, varying in number from a few to many hundred.

The disease is caused by a virus which is specific to the horse.

The precise method of infection is unknown, but it seems likely that the virus gains entry through insignificant skin abrasions. The young horse's habit of nuzzling various objects could result in small skin wounds which, in turn, could lead to infection and would then explain the high incidence of warts on the muzzle.

The disease is self-limiting, and the warts, if left undisturbed, disappear 3 to 4 months after their first appearance.

SARCOIDS
Sarcoid's are not as easy to explain, either their cause or their make up. It is considered by some researchers that they are an exuberant growth of normal skin tissue, other researchers believe that sarcoids are
neoplastic. [ An abnormal new growth of tissue in animals; a tumor.]

The present view is that sarcoids are, in fact, locally invasive, non-spreading tumors of the skin. At first they look like a wart, but as they grow the skin covering the sarcoid becomes thin and breaks, allowing an ulcer to develop Sarcoids can occur anywhere on the body, either singly or at multiple sites and seldom undergo spontaneous remission.

They are notoriously difficult to treat as they have a tendency to recur when removed by surgery. They should be treated with caution and it is unwise to consider purchasing a horse that has sarcoids.
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I would get your Vet to look at the 'warts'.
 
Faracat said:
Grey horse melanomas are generally benign and usually occur around the anus of the horse. I was told by a Vet once that there are often more along the digestive tract (inside the horse), so I don't think that they are caused by sunlight in the way that human skin cancer is. ;)



I would get your Vet to look at the 'warts'.
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My initial thought was warts as the virus and therefore weakened immune system seemed to tie in but he's 8 so I thought he was probably too old for warts and changed my opinion to sarcoids. One friend has said leave alone to go on there own and YO has said get the vet?
 
Daft question but are the 'sore spots' actually sore or are you both assuming ? By that I mean do you touch them and he flinches / dips away ? If so it could just be ingrained on his memory. It used to hurt but now he's got into the habit of reacting that he does it as a habit ? Hope that makes sense ?
 
If it was my horse, I wouldn't ride him or lunge him with tack on until the sore spots on his back are gone.

Hope he recovers soon.
 
carefreegirl said:
Daft question but are the 'sore spots' actually sore or are you both assuming ? By that I mean do you touch them and he flinches / dips away ? If so it could just be ingrained on his memory. It used to hurt but now he's got into the habit of reacting that he does it as a habit ? Hope that makes sense ?
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I know what you mean and my Physio thought that at first, it's difficult to know to be sure, but if I smooth along the muscle from the wither with a little pressure when you get to the sore spot the back spasms so I stay still but maintain the pressure until the spasm stops, if you then move slightly further back maintaining the same pressure and not taking your hand off his back the it starts again. Not sure how to tell if it's now ingrained, any ideas to work it out one way or the other?
 
ApacheWarlord said:
If it was my horse, I wouldn't ride him or lunge him with tack on until the sore spots on his back are gone.

Hope he recovers soon.
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That's a great idea, and as soon as he has recovered enough and built his top line back up I will try it. At least then he will hopefully realise that his back doesn't hury anymore in a similar way to when he had his teeth done. I'm amazed how quickly his top line has fallen off in a week!! My only worry with this is that he doesn't relax on the lunge, his attention tends to wander and as mentioned in my initial post he doesn't seemed to have learned how to stretch but maybe I shouldn't worry about the quality of the work at the moment and instead concentrate on him accepting that the saddle no longer hurts before he is confident enough to stretch down in it.
 
Got my last post completely wrong and thought it said don't ride but lunge with tack on and how now realised it said don't do either! I'm such a clutz at times, sorry :) the trouble with not using the saddle till his back is better which was my initial thought is now compromised by the what if his back doesnt hurt anymore and It's a learnt response as highlighted in an earlier post
 
Lunge with poles to keep his attention ? Do you lunge him in his saddle ? If so then try without. Maybe some gadget to help encourage him to stretch ie bungee strap, Pessoa etc etc
 
Never lunged in his saddle:-) I'm a bit of a lunging expert as had to lunge my previous horse for 26 weeks as part of his rehab. Ive lunged my new horse with and without a Pessoa as well as long reined and lunging with two reins. I have started to introduce poles as he has never been taught to jump and has no idea what a pole is or what it's for with a view to working up to raised poles but as hard as I try I can't get him to relax. Even the pessoa doesn't encourage him round and down. Maybe I'm expecting too much too soon
 
Maybe worth giving him a holiday. Sounds like he put up with quite alot before you got him and the 3 months you've had him isn't long in the grand scheme of things. Flippin horses, why do we do it to ourselves ? :)
 
I asK myself that all the time :)) but we wouldn't be without them :) it has been nice getting to know each other on the ground though, maybe even speeded up the bonding process
 
islandspirit said:
Never lunged in his saddle:-) I'm a bit of a lunging expert as had to lunge my previous horse for 26 weeks as part of his rehab. Ive lunged my new horse with and without a Pessoa as well as long reined and lunging with two reins. I have started to introduce poles as he has never been taught to jump and has no idea what a pole is or what it's for with a view to working up to raised poles but as hard as I try I can't get him to relax. Even the pessoa doesn't encourage him round and down. Maybe I'm expecting too much too soon
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Island spirit we have both been through the KS suspensory issues if you remember, like you I have a new horse asked the vet to check the back specifically and like you I have been paranoid about all sorts ofmthings with new boy. I think you should relax and stop over thinking things, you are expecting too much too soon. Your horse will need much longer to settle and let go by the sounds of it, my boy wouldn't work low or stretch until the past week or 2 with instructor, and he still won't with me consistently. It's all just time. Good luck and PM me if you what to chat
 
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