Had to bail out yesterday youngster bolted

You can't blame such a newly backed horse, he panicked and he didn't have the training in place for you to help him out. That's not his fault.

However, now that it's happened, where do you go from here? I don't blame you for not wanting to hack him again. As I said in my earlier post, Jason Webb would train him through this, and if it were me I would consider it my responsibility to sort this horse out if only to sell him. But I'm a big softee!

I'm saying this as someone who has screwed up many many times with horses and no doubt will again, so please don't think I'm being judgemental because I'm completely not. :)
 
Not really qualified to give advise (I hate hacking with a passion, and avoid it as much as possible, mainly for this reason!) but just wanted to say I'm glad you're both ok. How bloody scary!
 
Springtime123, just wanted to mention your thoughts about the snaffle ant the nutcracker action- get the feeling also that you are blaming yourself partly by using this bit and I do think you are maybe being too hard on yourself! I do understand though as I always blame myself or look at my own actions when something goes wrong horsewise! I have had it pointed out to me that the ' nutcracker' action of the single joint does not actually cause the joint ro press into the roof of the mouth , as you would have to be pulling from directly beneath the lower jaw for this to happen- ie directly downwards. At the angle we pull on the reins, from the saddle,it is more likely that the joint will in fact, roll forwards onto the tongue- try this with a bit round your arm and put the "pull" in the two different positions and see what happens. Well, it made sense to me anyway. Hope this all makes sense.
I am sure that treating the sarcoids will be making him feel uncomfortable - and I'm sure that you don't enjoy doing it! But there really is no option other than to leave them untreated. But I'm not sure that I think he will transfer this into a dislike of you / lack of trust under saddle as he sounds like quite a chilled character. As he was a 'paddock ornament' previously, is there any possibility that he could be again? As obviously no one would want to pass him on as he is with his issues unknown. Not a perfect solution but maybe the best one in the circumstances.
 
No way Amymay, he lived as a companion and only knew the very basics - leading/ picking feet/ grooming. He is owned by my mum's best friend so know for sure he wasn't started previously.
 
Thanks amymay :) can't believe I've got away with mild concussion and nasty bruising. I have found out that concussion is really weird though, my friend who was with me at the time came over to see me today and told me I repeated the same question over and over again :rolleyes: Such a relief that he managed to cross two roads without getting hit though.
 
I'd agree with foxy1, I'm afraid. This horse is very green to be out on the road - I know people do it all the time and get away with it but I'm surprised at all these responses that seem to feel the flight instinct is some unusual, un-horsey reaction. We don't train for the 90% of the time when things go okay, we train for the 10% when they go wrong. What has his response been to being intentionally 'frightened' during your training? And what control methods have you trained in in the course of this work? Someone like Jason isn't going to wave some magic wand, he's going to systematically train and desensitise the horse so it is less likely to react negatively and more likely to remain relaxed and controllable under stress.

I'm working with a horse now who is not comfortable turning her head to look behind her when she is mounted/moving. So she's okay until something on her back alarms her and then she runs. She rides fine. . .right up until she doesn't. The solution is to break the problem into competent parts and build in new reactions to the stimulus that sets her off.

Of course it's impossible to tell, OP, what the situation is without seeing and, to some extent, the damage is done. If you're not comfortable with him and/or you are having second thoughts on the whole package of sarcoids and the flight problem, then yes, probably best to return him.
 
Thanks for your post tarrsteps. I have been avoiding the roads, although I did quite a bit of long reining on quiet roads before I started hacking him out. He is completely unfazed by traffic. We are on a busy yard with an attached business so he has seen forklifts, loading of goods onto lorries etc and men working. Nothing has bothered him. On the hack I've been doing with him we have to cross a country road from a bridleway to get to some local woodland and it was here where it happened. I have done some desensitizing work with him on the yard - umbrellas, flappy plastic and tractors etc but he has been completely unfazed by everything, so I haven't had a chance to see how he reacted in a flight response. By all intense and purpose up until now he has been completely unflappable. By control methods, could you give me some examples of ideas of things you could use? If he was yours how would you take the situation forward? I want to do the best thing by him.
 
I am glad you are ok I was once bolted with on the road and it's not a good experiance horse had an good reason something very unusual and terrifying happened .
In my case the horse was older and I managed to turn move her sideways on to the verge and crash her into a bank of brambles that broke the bolt enough for me to stop her .
I don't what to advise you to do but am so glad are you are fine.
 
Op im honestly sruggling to see what you could have done better. I think some of the inferred crisicm is very misplaced.
 
Thanks amymay. I have done my best to prepare him for a successful ridden career. I'm open to try new things and taking things on board. I will defo concentrate on the schooling and get the one rein stop polished up and go back to long reining him out. Getting married in July so the extra exercise will come in handy! Will also get him a lozenge full cheek in case it the single jointed snaffle had an impact on the situation.
 
I always have a neck strap on him, but not a martingale. Being part highland he tends to have the typical lowish head carriage they have. I think I remember when I was trying to pull him up his head came up, but tbh it was all so quick. I can put a martingale on though, I'm sure I have one kicking around somewhere. I can go out with two companions as being on a big yard there tends to be plenty of options, I have found in the past they can get more wound up with more than one other but can defo try it.
 
Standing martingale, and two nice steady companions (its not a party). And ask them to ride strategically. It's all well and good desensatising at home, but out and about is where the real work starts, and there's only so much you can do in the confines of the school and yard. I've ridden several breakers away, and quite frankly as soon as they're happy with a jockey they're out hacking. Always with two companions though.
 
A bolter is a real scare, been on 2 and its not nice, i bailed from 1 of them and was lucky to sit the 2nd as we were in a huge field next to a road with a big hedge so just hung on, yes he's young and green but im assuming you felt he was ready for the big outside world. My worry would be hes already took off with success, to escape a scary situation, not a critisism of you, as a bolter just goes with very little you can do. Agree with Amy May if youre going out, take two bombproofs with you for " escort and hem in" if neccessary duty, personally if hacking id have a cheltnam gag in with 2 reins in the event you need the 2nd rein, my experience is its a good stopper, and only need come into play from a snaffle to gag if you really need it, but i'll be honest ive never used it on a bolter. Good luck whatever you choose to do
 
Hope your confidence hasn't taken too bad a knock. I was hacking my 4 year old a few years ago and he got spooked fell to knees turned round and ran, i managed to keep the reins but had lost stirrups and was galloping down the road out of control, nothing would stop him so I baled, he stopped when a tractor pulled in front of him. That was 6 years ago, it was totally out of character for him and he has never done it again, we hack, hunt, gallop across open country etc.......he is still very very strong, ridden in snaffle for schooling and low key work but in Cheltenham gag for hunting etc as it is the only thing that he listens to without a battle, I am going to first funride of year tomorrow and will ride him on snaffle rein with gag rein knotted over neck in case need it.

I never considered getting rid of him but you have to listen to your gut and if you think he is dangerous and may do it again it is not worth risking your safety over.
 
I nearly had a similar situation last week. Moved my boy to new yard and next day thought it would be a good idea to take him on a little hack around the track that runs around the inside of the property to get him oriented. Big mistake. He was fine trotting up away from the stables and between the fields but as soon as we got around the back of the property, out of sight, smell and earshot of the other horses he neighed, planted, spun, crossed his jaw and set his neck (basically every indication that bad things were about to happen) and was threatening to do the Usain Bolt back to the safety of the stable block. I tried everything but in the end got him to stand still long enough to bail out and somehow hold on to him to lead him back. Thought I was being a wimp but the YM saw us and said it was the best course of action to prevent both horsey and me ending up in A&E.
My biggest error was riding him in a snaffle (which we only ever school in) rather than a pelham which we hack out in. Not sure if it would have made much difference but at least I would have had some brakes when he tried to make a fast bid for freedom.
 
Marydoll, that's a really interesting point - I hadn't thought that for him, he learnt yesterday that spinning and bolting got him home. Being half highland he is very bright and there's nothing to say he won't think of it again. Who knows though, if there was safe space around us maybe he would have run himself out a bit and I could have got him back. Gusbear, that sounds awful, thank goodness you were able to stop him with enough time to get off. Meesha, good to know it was a one off for yours. I think if I was going to continue with him, something like a Cheltenham gag might help, especially as some of you are saying, being able to ride off the snaffle rein but having it knotted as insurance would be good. I've got a lot of thinking to do, but really with the sarcoid situation, I think I know what the best thing to do is.
 
As soon as someone mentions "bolting" on this forum ,there is usualy a prolonged debate and dispute as to what it really means. However it is important to understand the differences betwean similar types of behaviour because the solution is not necessarily the same. When I was a kid in a racing yard ,I was lectured by the head lad. He said "there isnt a horse worth dying for".He also taught me how to bale out. So I think you did the right thing in using the ejector seat.True bolting is very very rare and I dont think this is the case here.
Its all about herd instinct. You have to be the herd leader ,24/7.Otherwise when the chips are down and he discovers "killer lambs",he takes control and heads for home. He blots you out completely. I have a particularly sharp ID who sees everything and hears everything . His reactions are as sharp as anything. We have worked to a stage where he only does a sort of sharp stop and look rather than runs away. However ,a great deal of desensetising had to go into this . In the early stages ,I made a mistake and gave him a slap with a stick on a xcountry course. I suddenly found myself heading back to the horsebox at a controlled (by him) gallop. It was a shock to a man of my build and strength ,to find that I couldnt even make a dent in his progress.
A true bolterv will run straight into anything in its path,they are beyond reason ,even their own.
I think you have possibly tried to move to far too fast. He needs to be surrounded by sensible horses.I know this isnt easy as nobody seems to want to go hacking anymore.I seldom if ever disagree with Tar steps ,so I suspect that her definition of "green " and mine are slightly different.To my way of thinking ,a green horse is an inexperienced horse (blank canvas) whose trust you have gained. The trick is to keep gently pushing the envelope of that trust.I dont think that it matters if you are on the road or not . This is the UK ,we dont have half of Alberta to stop:D in. The roads are what we have got and they need to get used to them early on or they never really do.I suspect he seemed so easy going that you didnt realise that he was perilously close to his breaking point. It is so often like that,the good ones that try to coop[erate ,finaly crack and everyone wonders why. The backsliders that have a hissy fit at the drop of a hat get all the special treatment.
 
I do think the sarcoids have to be taken into consideration, since you are still in the trial period. One issue in a horse you are keen on is one thing, two issues in a horse you've got more out of circumstance than by design is a different consideration.

As to the accusation of 'implied cronyism, I did no such thing. I do not think in the situation there was anything you could have done differently. Perhaps a bigger bit would have saved the situation, perhaps, if he was truly panicking, it would only have added to his panic. There is nothing intrinsic in rein pressure that makes a horse stop, which is why it is so often a line of communication that breaks down when a horse is under pressure.

My only point was that however lovely and unflappable the horse is, he is still very very green. It sounds like you've done all the right steps but, by your own admission, nothing has bothered him particularly so you had no way of knowing how he would react. I would have been inclined to keep going, upping the pressure, until I saw a negative reaction. I don't pretend that this magically means the horse won't react to something else in the future, it merely gives me some clue to what might happen when he does. Maybe he is one of the small number of horses that don't give any warning signs at all, in which case he's a case for a professional.

I repeat, I am not criticising, OP - I'm very glad you are relatively unscathed by a very scary situation. I know how extremely unsettling such a profound loss of control can be. My own similar situation didn't even end as well as yours and I've been involved in quite a few that ended much worse. :( We 'trust' horses to not do things like that and we assume there is some bit or piece of kit that will completely prevent it from happening again. I would love to be that innocent! ;)

At this point, if you choose to go on with the horse, I would stay in a much more controlled situation and try to incite a mild, modified version of the reaction you got. What I'd do next would completely depend on the horse, the situation, and my own skills. And I agree, I would not go hacking without a good escort.

I'm of two minds about long lining - I find it very useful to get horses out and about, and in 'hacking bootcamp' but twice recently I know of horses that got away on public roads . . .
 
On the subject of sarcoid treatment, btw, I know two horses that have been treated/are being treated for sarcoids currently and are much more sensitive and reactive than usual. And why not, now that I've given it some thought? It has to be painful and pain affects temperament/behaviour, especially in younger horses. Don't rule that out as a factor.
 
What a horrid experience, glad you and horse are OK.

I think it is very scarey going out on a newly broken horse, because they still don't really understand what is being asked of them - including stop! Horrid that he ran away from his companion, because that should have been reassuring for him.

Long reining could be OK, but if they get away and they are in front of you, how could you stop them?

Have a mull over, because there have been lots of useful suggestions.
 
And re road work - I do completely understand that it is usual and expected to take a horse with a month or two of riding on it out on the roads (i also realise, OP, that you did NOT do this, it was just bad luck that the horse decamped down a road) but it is still expecting other people to be responsible for your safety to quite a large extent. Personally I want a horse to be cantering confidently and easy to pull up before I go into situations where, if he canters 'by accident' I will have space and time to bring the situation back under control. But I also realise this is my PREFERENCE and not most people's here so, to each, their own. :)
 
And, last but not least ;), I would not completely rule out a bit change. I don't really agree with the idea that single joint bits are less likely to provide suitable control, but it's certainly true that they are not the right bit for every horse in every situation.
 
Cantering confidently is all well and good,but a confident horse will always be easy to stop. But even confident horses can panic and are probably all the more worse (er... more worse, is that good grammer:eek:). My advice is that OP is ok (sort of ) horse is ok (sort of) .Lesson learnt, go slow ,company of other older aned wiser horses. Dont relax on this horse, keep him aware of you. Talk to him , make sure he realises that the boss is still there.

Incidentaly ,getting back to my slightly mad ID. The worst he has been was after a serious accident on my part,when I couldnt reassure and communicate with him. Basicly he went completely ferral because dad was nolonger able to reassure him . This was the horse that was happy and trusting enough to stand at the track and watch the Olympic mens road race, surrounded by thousands of people.But once the trust link had been broken ,he returned to scared bunny.Fortunately we have rebuilt the link. IT IS ALL ABOUT TRUST
 
Orangehorse said:
Long reining could be OK, but if they get away and they are in front of you, how could you stop them?

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well, you can't if they really want to. but you can have the reins directly to bit and keep slightly to one side so you can bring them round on a circle if needs be (even dropping the outside,separate rein if necessary). Do you want to do this on a road? probably not and you have to be bloody quick and on top of them all the time.

I have been in the same situation as the OP a few years back. Said horse always had a spin in him and when he was young and I was unbalanced by it, which caused him to panic and run off. I learned to ride it and he learned it didn't get him anywhere and stopped it after a few months (he would do it maybe once a month-spook out of nowhere, spin and tank off or at least try to!) The first scary incident out hacking where I came off, was concussed and he ran for home across a road and over a hedge-this was after several months of uneventful hacking in company and alone, and I don't know what set him off. I learned to deal with it and he hadn't done it at all in the last 6 years of his life (PTS at 11) and he turned out to be a great hack-bombproof in traffic-and a lovely horse generally.

Its easy to demonise young horses but even though you have done everything fine, there is a hole in this particular horse's education and you need to find it and deal with it or get someone else to. Once they learn a behaviour gets them out/away from something (including rearing/bucking/tanking off) they will keep doing it-and I don't mean it needs beating out of them, they just need showing it doesn't help them. Good luck, I do know how scary it is.
 
Thank you mike and tarrsteps for your interesting posts, lots of food for thought. Tarrsteps, he is not currently being treated for his sarcoids. He is on the sarc ex global herbs supplement as his owner wanted to try less invasive route before the Liverpool treatment, but they are certainly growing fast. I assume they are uncomfortable or even painful as he does not like he applying the Vaseline and fly cream around them every day.
Mike, he does appear to be a very stoic character, and who knows maybe he has hid very well that he was close to breaking point. It's a difficult one. If he'd been out in the open I suspect I would never have written this post or considered it a major issue. It was the positioning, so close the a 60mph road that was the big issue. I asked my friend what speed he left and she didn't know, as she was solely focused on getting me on my feet.
Going back to his schooling, he did know the aids to stop and was confident with stopping and steering, he wouldn't be out on a hack of any kind without the basics in place. He hadn't cantered under saddle, as I prefer a first canter to be out in the open and uphill rather than in the sand school. Maybe I should have done a lot more schooling with him, but I felt he was ready, especially for an off road hack with a very steady companion.
 
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