Hand position??

Hand position is something that so many riders struggle with, and is a real key to being effective and sitting properly, for sure. One thing I've found in teaching is how many riders allow their reins to get longer and longer, losing any true connection, but without realising it is happening. I think this is a mixture of a bad hand position and a lack of core stability (being pulled forward out of the saddle). If the hand isn't in a good position and the thumb held properly, the reins will pull through unless the rider grips - which then stiffens the elbow and shoulder.
My hand position naughty is letting them come too high. :(

HS - Have you spoken to my trainer recently, that was what we were discussing last.....not letting me lose connection, through slipping reins!
 
Quick question: How do you all fine riding with a schooling whip re. Hand position? I find I physically can't keep my thumb on top with a whip, as it restricts my hand. I dropped mine fairly quickly today as I'm trying not to give myself any excuse to have handlebar-hands :rolleyes:

J&C
 
Quick question: How do you all fine riding with a schooling whip re. Hand position? I find I physically can't keep my thumb on top with a whip, as it restricts my hand. I dropped mine fairly quickly today as I'm trying not to give myself any excuse to have handlebar-hands :rolleyes:

J&C

I find it much more difficult to keep a good hand position when carrying a schooling whip - it's not surprising when you really think about it! My horse goes much better if I'm carrying one and so I'm tempted to ride with one in each hand - at least then I'll be balanced!
 
TS, I've been and experimented with the thumb thing, and the contact was SO much better! Much more consistent, which is Ozzy's weakest point :) very pleased :D

J&C

Cool. :)

It's a bit like turning your head so you're looking over your outside shoulder in canter - a simple position fix/check that benefits almost everyone.
 
TarrSteps, that over-the-shoulder look thing is a miracle! :) I tried it last week, and I think it may really help.

I got yelled at for "piano hands" lots as a kid, and am being yelled at for it again---am trying to really watch it, by concentrating on my thumbs in much the way FB mentioned! But I also find the schooling whip gets in the way---anybody got any ideas about that? :confused:

I had a thing going with hands really low and wide for a bit, and one instructor gave me a loop of plaiting thread to put over my wrists, just to make me aware when it was happening. Worked really quickly.
 
My main issues are wide hands and like another poster, lifting the inside hand whilst turning.

I will try the 'head over the shoulder' trick today on my cob - just to clarify, when asking for left canter, look over you right shoulder?
 
It's not so much in the transition, it's most useful going around corners/circles. Just turn your head so, near enough, your nose is over your outside shoulder, the one opposite to the lead you're on. It's quite a surprising feeling for most people!
 
It's not so much in the transition, it's most useful going around corners/circles. Just turn your head so, near enough, your nose is over your outside shoulder, the one opposite to the lead you're on. It's quite a surprising feeling for most people!

Now that's fascinating...'cos I have been sworn at for looking to the outside on my corners at times....but maybe, in doing so, I was holding my outside shoulder back , therefore twisting my body & getting my weight wrong, rather than following the line of the corner with my shoulder & turning my nose towards it!!
 
It's not something to be doing all the time, it's just a check. The point is to reposition the body then turn the head normally again and keep the same feel. And yes, it's more about the actual turning of the head, not just about where you look. :)
 
i have sneaky hands too and my thumbs i'm sure have a higher gravitational pull than my fingers so they always end up a facing a little bit inwards.

Last night for the brief ride i had, i made a positive effort to keep my thumbs on top - now obviously to start with i started with a few tensions in my forearms and thumbs, but once i thought about relaxing my thumb on the the top of the rein my beastie (who is very opinionated when it comes to working into a contact) started to really relax into the contact and was more responsive to the subtle aids i used with my hands :)

My hands never had the thumbs facing inwards completely but just moving them an inch or so had quite a significant impact on how she settled down.

She also has a tendency to go btv, only a little but this seemed to be less with my thumbs more on top!

Very good :D
 
Definitely going to try the head over shoulder thing when I canter. I have a horrible habit of twisting in the saddle and dropping a shoulder when I canter, and I'm pretty sure it helps ginger horse drift out a bit, particularly going right!
 
I hope no-one minds me reviving this thread but I have found it fascinating :-)

I have spent the last 10 days really concentrating on my hand position after reading this thread. I have to say that concentrating really hard and trying to keep my hands and wrists relaxed at the same time is blooming difficult!

Anyway, I am finding it really difficult to keep my thumb on top on my whip hand. The angle of how the whip lies across my thigh almost forces my hand to roll inwards towards the motorbike position. I have experimented with holding my hands pretty wide to lessen the angle that the whip lies at but to get to the point where the whip is not trying to get my hand to roll I have then got ludicrously wide hands.

Am I missing a really obvious point? Does anyone else have this problem?
 
i think carrying your hands very slightly higher can help... it is a problem though, and i find it affects my right arm most of the time because i always carry a whip in my right hand for hacking on the roads, which turns my wrist a little, so that right elbow is far quicker to go into the horrible funky-chicken position.
i thought years ago that what we need is a whip that is shaped in a curve over the thigh and then straightens again... iirc someone has made one, they put a link to their website on here a while back.
TS's idea about thinking of your thumbs being able to fall/roll outwards really helps, that's a great one.
i've spent months working on carrying my hands slightly higher for flatwork, then had a jump lesson the other day and got told to lower my hands! *despairs* ;) ;)
 
Am I missing a really obvious point? Does anyone else have this problem?

If I hold the whip 'through' my hand and thumb and have my thumb on top, the end of the whip constantly taps the horse, which he finds extremely irritating (and who can blame him!). The only way to avoid this when holding the whip like that is to roll the thumb in. The only way I've found to hold a whip and have my thumb correctly positioned is to have the whip through only my fingers, not through the thumb as well - so I'm not gripping it in my hand. Dunno if that makes any sense - it takes some practice to get used to it!
 
i find it affects my right arm most of the time because i always carry a whip in my right hand for hacking on the roads, which turns my wrist a little, so that right elbow is far quicker to go into the horrible funky-chicken position.

Exactly, I suspect that I am often the funky-chicken :-(

i thought years ago that what we need is a whip that is shaped in a curve over the thigh and then straightens again...

Now that's a GREAT idea....

Thanks for the tip, will try holding my hands a little higher (I wonder what knock-on effect that will have with my position which seems to be like a house of cards!)
 
If I hold the whip 'through' my hand and thumb and have my thumb on top, the end of the whip constantly taps the horse, which he finds extremely irritating (and who can blame him!). The only way to avoid this when holding the whip like that is to roll the thumb in. The only way I've found to hold a whip and have my thumb correctly positioned is to have the whip through only my fingers, not through the thumb as well - so I'm not gripping it in my hand. Dunno if that makes any sense - it takes some practice to get used to it!

I think understand what you mean. Doesn't this mean that you are forever dropping your whip?

I do all my schooling out hacking so maybe I should try this after tying some elastic from my wrist to my whip so that I am not forever getting off to retrieve it!

Thanks for the suggestion, the level of helpfulness on this forum never ceases to amaze me :-)
 
Whilst still on the subject of hands.....when my beastie walks out hacking she really paces out so the head goes up and down lots!

Obviously it makes my hands move loads back and forwards until she's softened a bit through her body and starts to stretch over her back and take the contact down herself. Should i allow my hands to move back and forwards? i've tried my hands high, low, stiller elbows, relaxed elbows and now i've just accepted that my hands just move until we settle a bit. lol

Is this right? :confused:
 
Just to be different..

I had a showjumping lesson the other week. I have a big monster whos strong as anything going into fences and he's also very green so we often get too close or he does a huge leap from miles away. I have a bad habit of interfering with him and when I do it usually ends up with poles on the ground or a really horrid feeling jump so I usually just sit quietly and he sorts himself out.
I asked the trainer about this and they said to flatten my hands (piano style), keep them low, maintain the contact and don't interfere.. it works really well.. not sure why/how etc but its a nifty little piece of advice I was given. Thats the only time I've been told to hold my hands in that position - everything else is thumbs on top.
 
I think understand what you mean. Doesn't this mean that you are forever dropping your whip?

I do all my schooling out hacking so maybe I should try this after tying some elastic from my wrist to my whip so that I am not forever getting off to retrieve it!

Thanks for the suggestion, the level of helpfulness on this forum never ceases to amaze me :-)

Not dropped it yet - but there is always a first time!! I find my fingers are just too small to do this with the handle of the whip so tend to have a slightly longer whip and hold the shaft instead, so the handle stops it from slipping through my fingers.
 
Whilst still on the subject of hands.....when my beastie walks out hacking she really paces out so the head goes up and down lots!

Obviously it makes my hands move loads back and forwards until she's softened a bit through her body and starts to stretch over her back and take the contact down herself. Should i allow my hands to move back and forwards? i've tried my hands high, low, stiller elbows, relaxed elbows and now i've just accepted that my hands just move until we settle a bit. lol

Is this right? :confused:

Your hands should be following her head as far as I understand it! If you look at the top riders, their horse's heads are not 'dead still', but the riders are very elastic through the elbows, so the contact remains the same even though the head changes position. You try walking anywhere with your head dead still - it's really hard - now imagine your head is out in front of you like a counterweight - it would move even more. You have to move your hands, the trick is keeping the contact consistent I think. There are people who know far more than me who will comment I am sure!
 
Your hands should be following her head as far as I understand it! If you look at the top riders, their horse's heads are not 'dead still', but the riders are very elastic through the elbows, so the contact remains the same even though the head changes position. You try walking anywhere with your head dead still - it's really hard - now imagine your head is out in front of you like a counterweight - it would move even more. You have to move your hands, the trick is keeping the contact consistent I think. There are people who know far more than me who will comment I am sure!

oh that's ok then, half the time i look like i'm rowing a boat when we first go out - i think it's as she starts to soften her back and relax a bit (and take her ears out from my nostrils :D) that she softens into the contact nicely and doesn't nod quite so much.

She nods so much to start with that my hands move 4 inches backwards and forwards untils she stops pacing and actually just walks like a normal less excited pone :)

:) Thanks for that, it's been puzzling me for aaaages and i keep forgetting to ask my instructor!
 
stimpy, i had to go and ride to check how i hold my whip, as i couldn't remember, i just do it automatically! right, thumb is wrapped around whip not along it, thumb lies along rein of whip hand the same as non-whip hand. so, when you look down, the whip is parallel with the thumb, kind of thing. obv a slightly skinnier whip makes this easier (the padded racing whip i have is a bit too fat for this actually, but really skinny whips are too loose in my hand. obv depends on the size of your hands too!) i haven't dropped a whip for about 10 years... ;) ;) putting a spare martingale stop on the end is standard afaik, this stops the whip from dropping through.

PooJay, SC is correct, your hands should follow the horse's mouth, once you take up a contact 'your hands belong to the horse', so 'rowing' back and forth to keep the contact consistent and elastic is absolutely correct. you need your elbows loose enough, it's sort of as if you're doing the locomotion, and your torso goes between your elbows a little as the horse's head moves. obv it moves far less in trot than in walk and canter. i used to ride 1 horse that had a huge elastic walk and his head would move about a foot forward-and-back in walk.
 
I've found the only way to solve the whip problem is to hold it normally in my hand, but so it lies on the opposite side. That way my hand stays upright, or at worst my thumb falls out but it's impossible to have a piano hand ;) I use a schooling whip so its long enough to flick and have an effect still. Takes a bit of getting used to but it's really worked!

Also, if you're worried about dropping it, put a rubber martingale on the end, so it's at the top o the handle. It stops it slipping through if you aren't gripping it properly :)

J&C
 
stimpy, i had to go and ride to check how i hold my whip, as i couldn't remember, i just do it automatically! right, thumb is wrapped around whip not along it, thumb lies along rein of whip hand the same as non-whip hand. so, when you look down, the whip is parallel with the thumb, kind of thing. obv a slightly skinnier whip makes this easier (the padded racing whip i have is a bit too fat for this actually, but really skinny whips are too loose in my hand. obv depends on the size of your hands too!) i haven't dropped a whip for about 10 years... ;) ;) putting a spare martingale stop on the end is standard afaik, this stops the whip from dropping through.

PooJay, SC is correct, your hands should follow the horse's mouth, once you take up a contact 'your hands belong to the horse', so 'rowing' back and forth to keep the contact consistent and elastic is absolutely correct. you need your elbows loose enough, it's sort of as if you're doing the locomotion, and your torso goes between your elbows a little as the horse's head moves. obv it moves far less in trot than in walk and canter. i used to ride 1 horse that had a huge elastic walk and his head would move about a foot forward-and-back in walk.

Yep, that's the feeling i get :D it's quite funny when the walk stays that big but then gets really quick....it's almost difficult not to start giggling :D
 
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