Handling a bolshy horse?

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sanchob

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I have a small 15 hands welsh part bred. He was an entire rig when I brought him and is a real handful. I didn't know he was a rig until we got him home. The following day we purchased a chifney after his op we kept him in that for about 3 months and then put him in a bridle with 2 ropes either side, as he would try and trip you up with his front legs when you lead him and bite at the same time. 3 years down the line he is a lot better but you still cant lead him in a normal head collar as he just sets his neck and tows you across the yard. We tried the be nice halter which controlled the pace he walked at but made him worse with the biting and striking and he also started rearing in it. I have thought about buying a humane stud chain does anyone have any experience with them and know if they would work with my boy? or is there anything else that might be worth trying? Thanks
 
I have always had more sucess with a Monty Roberts 'dually' halter than the 'be nice' for difficult to lead horses....

No experience of the chain, sorry.
 
What is a humane stud chain? (Never mind, I will google)

Ah, I see: http://www.humanestudchain.com/howto.htm



I admire your perseverance, I would probably have shot any horse of mine that was a pain after so long, or sent it to the mennonites to work in a plough for the summer.

Answering your question regarding the chain... I use a chain on anything I have here that forgets their manners, or needs to learn them.

I use dog choke chains (as I do not like the ropes with the integral chains) either over the nose, or under the chin, depending on whether I want their head up or down, and, I give them a jolly good yank on it if they aren't listening to me, I weigh 120lbs on a good day and most of my horses average 1000lbs, I can't afford to let them swing me around on the end of a rope as the whim takes them.

You can but try the chain, if it helps get him listening to you it helps, if it doesn't then it is just another one off the list.
 
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Thanks for all the advice. I think I will try the chain first then as I think that is probably what he need's. I have only persevered with him this long as he is fab to ride, just wish he would behave more on the ground. Will give that ago if no good will try the monty roberts halter. Thanks :)
 
What happened to a good old simple rope halter and good groundwork? If he is still strong and bolshy after three years I don't think it will make a difference as to what you put around his head. Have you done any consistent ground work with him?
 
^^^this I resorted to a chiffney with one of my old horses when I bought him. I used it for a period of time for mine, his and others safety while I done groundwork on him. I think it took around 6 maybe 8 months before he was back in a head collar and could be lead with ease and manners.
I agree with the poster who said about getting someone in to help you
 
Unfortunately he doesn't respect halters. I'm not going to give up with him I think eventually he will get better. I have been and am still trying to do ground work with him but need something stronger to control him. I think at one point he has had a rather nasty seeing to, you cant get in a fighting situation with him as he just looses the plot and ends up turning nasty which I don't want.
 
I would do whatever it takes for you to have some control. He was a so and so when you got him so it is not as if it was your fault. The most important thing is your safety!! I
 
sanchob said:
Unfortunately he doesn't respect halters. I'm not going to give up with him I think eventually he will get better. I have been and am still trying to do ground work with him but need something stronger to control him. I think at one point he has had a rather nasty seeing to, you cant get in a fighting situation with him as he just looses the plot and ends up turning nasty which I don't want.
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What ground work have you been doing with him? Have you tried any basic natural horsemanship methods to establish boundaries and simple commands? Also do you have a safe, enclosed, but not too small environment to work with him?
 
He doesn't really need the chifney though just a stronger type of halter that puts more pressure on his nose then his poll. He wont go forward in the chifney either he just backs off it and starts rearing in it. I have started doing schooling sessions in hand with him with side reins on him and he is good as gold. I have to turn him out in the bridle everyday at the moment which I don't mind doing but he can still occasionally tow me off somewhere.
 
I have a nice secure arena to work with him. I'm not sure if I trust him not to run over me though as he isn't very good with spacial awareness and hasn't got very good brakes. What sort of exercises would you say would help?
 
sanchob said:
Unfortunately he doesn't respect halters..
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I think you may mean that unfortunately he has never been properly handled in a halter.

sanchob said:
I have been and am still trying to do ground work with him but need something stronger to control him..
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No, actually, you need to go lighter and teach him to yield to pressure...not to run through it.

sanchob said:
I think at one point he has had a rather nasty seeing to, you cant get in a fighting situation with him as he just looses the plot and ends up turning nasty which I don't want.
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That is the whole point of yielding to pressure. The horse is taught to yield. The handler can avoid creating fight in the horse. You have to lose the idea that you have to control and overpower this horse, because this is what is stopping you from seeing how to change him.

I have written miles of stuff on yielding to pressure, here and elsewhere. If you googled AengusOg or Saddletramp you'd find it all.
 
ImmyS said:
At what cost to the horse? There's are much more effective and humane ways to 'control' a horse than a chain around its head.
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I dare say. More ways to skin a cat than one and all that, as usual, what works for one horse/handler may not work for another, but safety has to be the first consideration. Horses are like children, you warn them that the consequences will not be pleasant but they do it anyway and get hurt, the sensible ones learn from one lesson.

Speaking generally, not specifically here, a horse hellbent on doing his own thing is a liability, to his handler, himself, and anyone else who happens to be in his way.
 
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In his past he defiantly has. When I got him home we went to turn him out in a head collar and he walked down the field on his back legs boxing and then he would curl you up with his neck and the strike trying to trip you up. When I think back to how he was he has improved loads he just thinks he is still a stallion and needs to fight the world the majority of the time.
 
The point of natural horsemanship exercises is that in every exercise you do, the horse has a choice, they can either yield to light pressure whether that be through body language or physical touch, if they choose to ignore this then they are subjected to more pressure, they soon learn it is far easier and less annoying to move to lighter aids!

My mare although not bolshy was very stubben about you being in her space, or about a person moving her if she did not want to. I would really recommend getting a rope halter, need less pressure and give clearer aids, with a long (lunge line length) rope, these are not particularly expensive either.

We started with teaching to back up, important to get her moving out of my space. Every session I start by stroking the horse on their face then by running my hands down all parts of the body to make sure there are no "don't touch me there spots". To teach back up I will place my self in front of the horse, slight to the side if you are worried he might shoot forward. I will then lean into the horse, look at the horse but no threatening staring into the eye or alike. I will then tut my finger from side to side as if telling off a naughty child, if the horse does not respond, I will wiggle the rope, if still no response the movement of the rope will be amplified, making it annoying for the horse. As soon as the horse even things about moving backwards, may it be a yielding or tiny backwards movement of a foot, the rope should be immediately dropped. Repeat this process regularly, some horses will learn faster than others but its worth the satisfaction when the horse moves away from you with a slight wiggle of a finger.

Hope this helps, good luck.
 
ImmyS said:
but its worth the satisfaction when the horse moves away from you with a slight wiggle of a finger.

Hope this helps, good luck.
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I know a NH Trainer missing the top of her finger because the horse got peed off with the waggling and attacked her, luckily it was only her finger he took off :( I think it is a question of knowing your horse/signals, standing and waggling a finger/rope can sometimes exacerbate aggressive behaviour.
 
Nadolig Llawen said:
I know a NH Trainer missing the top of her finger because the horse got peed off with the waggling and attacked her, luckily it was only her finger he took off :( I think it is a question of knowing your horse/signals, standing and waggling a finger/rope can sometimes exacerbate aggressive behaviour.
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Seems they weren't reading the horse very well and obviously this is very important. These methods will obviously not work for every individual however they are great if they work well, but as with everything horsey, it is trial and error, but I think it is a mistake to not explore methods without the force of harsh equipment for the horses sake.
 
Aargh!! You have the patience of a saint. What I would say I would do would probably cause me to attract a host of button pushers.

All I can elude to is... "mean mummy" has to rear her ugly head sometimes... :)
 
He does like biting though and would probably be the sort to bite your fingers off, because he gets angry but will try and have a go with it. will wait till the weather is a bit better and his not to fresh.
 
ImmyS said:
Seems they weren't reading the horse very well and obviously this is very important. These methods will obviously not work for every individual however they are great if they work well, but as with everything horsey, it is trial and error, but I think it is a mistake to not explore methods without the force of harsh equipment for the horses sake.
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I don't think that a smooth chain (that people happen to think is fine to put around a dogs neck by the way, and we won't go into those lovely spikey chains used to remind stronger dogs their manners) is harsh, like bits, anything can be harsh in the wrong hands.

Better a chain than resorting to some of the rigid control halters on the market perhaps, or persistent, irritating "Oh do be a good boy darling" tugs on a soft piece of rope.
 
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sanchob said:
He does like biting though and would probably be the sort to bite your fingers off, because he gets angry but will try and have a go with it. will wait till the weather is a bit better and his not to fresh.
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Doesn't have to be a finger, just an example, any 'cue' can be used :)
 
Haha I think he does! I mighty try the rope halter but I can't leave ropes all over the floor as he will just hurt him self. If that doesn't work I will then try the humane chain as you have all said every horse is different, I wouldn't be nasty with it just firm until he gives me a bit of respect. I do personally think he will not respect the nicey nicey approach as I tried that after his rig surgery and he didn't take a blind bit of notice to me, but will try everything again. Thank you for all the advice :)
 
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