"Happy Hackers", would you pass judgement on a horse hacking in draw reins?

jaysh said:
Have i missed something???

Were we not asked for our opinions? Everyone is entitled to one (especially when asked!) including blazingsaddles.....wow, you have stood up well under attack of your opinion blazingsaddles, my hat off to you!
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Have to agree with this..............OP asked for opinions........but some people dont seem to be able to cope with one that doesnt agree with theirs, very odd!

In answer To KATB.......I hate the things and whilst I wouldnt have said anything to you as its not my business, I probably (rightly or wrongly) would have formed an opinion about your knowledge.
 
I would pass no judgement....possibly becasue I would be likely to be passing you sideways at a jog:rolleyes:

As with anything....if its appropriate for that particular horse,and its used correctly and for a reason....then fine.

I'm not a gadget person myself, I do prefer the mild bit and cavesson noseband and what have you, but needs must. My new horse is a young, green arab- he's done very little and finds everything so exciting he feels the need to march everywhere with his head in the air......to the point where if he gets even more excited ( think open field, farm track) we have a little dance and the head goes up- and seeing as I don't think that missing front teeth, broken nose and black eye is a good look then I'm using a standing martingale. For now.
 
I HATE horsey people who have to offer their opinion even though it isn't asked for, I would be miffed, KatB.
I have read blazingsaddles posts with great interest, I admire everyone who has offered their horses to her for a ride, but as she seems to be chatting a whole bag of *****e, I wouldn't like her on mine...
 
I would like to say very well said Ayla84..............

'As with all gadgets...used properly they can be benificial, used incorrect can be horrific!!!!
What someone puts on their horse is nothing to do with me so I`d never pass comment unless the horse looked unhappy/in pain etc. '

I reckon the world of equestrian enthusiasts has to be the most critical/bitchiest full of opinions folk of all sports....why is that?? Honestly to pass a judgement on a snapshot is just out of order imo. To me it is like watching someone walk from their car parked in the disabled bay and be outraged that the person doesn't 'look' disabled...what are they supposed to do crawl? Or condemning a mother for smacking/berating their child.

Noone can judge another from a snapshot and come on folks how can you condemn 'draw reins' as evil when a snaffle in the wrong hands or an ill fitting saddle can be far far worse. Owners leave horses with teeth unattended for years and backs unchecked...is that not cruel and not far worse than daring to use a gadget? Unless you are the perfect owner and a bridless, bareback, barefooted parelli enthusiast, don't judge others so harshly. Incidently I can recall frequently being stopped in the 1980s on my barefooted pony to be told by so called do-gooders and know-it-alls how cruel I was not to have the pony shod and how it must so hurt the pony's feet without shoes!! Ha fashion hey look now, barefoot is all in vogue!
 
No I wouldn't comment or form an opinion on the riders knowledge/ability etc.
You have to know the horse/rider combination and the history of both to get to the true situation.
As an example my wife owned a 5yo for a while. When he came to us he had a few issues about hacking. If he didn't want to play he went up and spun.
Now when I hacked him out we toddled off in snaffle and little else. If he tried to act up I just clamped my legs around him and delt with the issue before he managed to rear. He never bothered me but then I'm stupidly confident and believe I'm indistructable :o
Wife on same horse hacked him out in draw reins. She is 5' nothing with short legs. She was also involved in a horse/car crash 9 years ago which resulted in the horse she was riding being draged 30 yards up the road on the roof of a car with her pinned underneath it. She needed the draw riens to give her the edge if he tried to go up. She used the just like the OP, loose (no action) until needed. A few weeks after we got him he had learnt not to do this and the DR's came off.
Now I'm not a better rider than my wife, just a different one with different experiences etc.
Sometimes tools are required to get a job done. It's how the tools are used and for how long that is important.
 
Wouldn't pass judgement no, each to their own.

Personally I hack out in a Market Harborough as having been tanked off with once when my neddy decided it would be good fun to stick his nose up skywards and gallop flat out. Needless to say I wasn't overly impressed.

I prefer the Market Harborough as only comes into effect if his head goes up way past the vertical (it is not on a tight setting at all); he can still stretch his neck out long and low on a long rein; I only have 1 rein to hold onto; there is something extra to hold onto round his neck if I do go out the side door and if he does decide he wants to look at the pretty blue sky he's only pulling against himself. :)

I feel more confident that I have that little bit extra control so safer for everyone involved.
 
Wouldn’t really care, can’t believe how long this thread is when you only asked a simple question!!

Don’t use any gadgets myself, in fact seem to have been too lazy to put on Badger’s noseband/martingale recently and have subsequently been run away with a little bit a couple of times!!

If it’s works, don’t fix it. Who cares what the do-gooders think!
 
Another one for its not my business! Whether the horse looks happy or not unfortunately..none of us are qualified to judge anyone else having only seen them for one moment at the one time. I wouldn't even dream of passing such a comment, whether I agreed with what they were doing or not.

As for my opinion on draw reins, I totally agree that they can have a place in the right hands. I have never used them for schooling - I personally prefer not to, but I have used them hacking my TB. Incidentally, not for roadwork - he's angelic at that! Its more for the 'oh my god I might get left behind so I will rear and throw all 4 legs off the ground in a demented and unseating fashion' moments which countryside and company seem to induce in him at times. It's unpredictable, unseating and dangerous. Just the presence of the draw reins which are not used for anything other, gives him that split second of brain processing which he needs to realise its all ok..instead of just losing it. They are used purely for safety with him.

To be honest, I wouldnt care what anyone else thought either. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but so am I. I also happen to know the horse a damn sight better than that person. I'd probably be quite rude to the person who said it - how dare they pass such quick judgement!
 
Wow, what a post!

Tbh I did expect this reaction, as for some reason Draw reins seem to be the devil itself.
I have read most of the replies, and thank you for bothering to respond :)

For those who say "the horse is obviosuly not well schooled enough/you're not worthy of having a horse/you're obviosuly incapable of riding such a horse" I find it quite amusing.

My mare is a 5yr old ISH. She isn't particularly "well schooled" yet, as I don't believe in drilling young horses in the school day in day out until they are devoid of any "personality" and bored stiff of the arena. However, we can do a decent enough dressage test, and be competitive around an affiliated SJing track. She can also do lateral work, flying changes, rein back etc etc, even out hacking ;)

However, she is very very sharp. This is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of several people WAY more qualified than probably anyone who has replied to this thread. ;) I have worked on hunting yards/international eventing yards/competition yards, so have ridden my fair share of sharp horses, and she is the first horse I have used draw reins on to hack out with as a conscious choice. This is because 98% of the time, she is lovely, but 2% of the time she can be a complete witch.

Almost all the hacking I do is off road, as was the case yesterday, so it's not buses etc I am worried about, but her sticking her head up so far I can see her star, and therefore loose control and end up going headlong onto farmers crops/dangerous ground which could damage her and me. The way I use them, they are not having ANY impact on her at all (draw reins loose, as I am very capable of working my horse in an outline without them ;) ), until she starts to mess about, when they act a bit like a martingale.

She is fit and well, she is an ideal weight, has a shiny coat, has a professionally fitted saddle, has never been ridden in a strong bit/noseband/bridle, gets her back and teeth checked regularly. How many people who keep "leisure horses" ride unfit/overweight horses/horses with badly fitted tack/aren't shod regularly enough/not technically sound etc etc, yet get no judgement because they "love their horse", but don't have the knowledge to care for it correctly?! :p

People seem to have this blank spot where ANY use of draw reins is bad, even when used in a manner which has minimal impact on the horse, but it makes the user a bad horse owner, when actually I see a lot worse, purely out of ignorance ;) :p
 
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but her sticking her head up so far I can see her star, and therefore loose control and end up going headlong onto farmers crops/dangerous ground which could damage her and me.
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This I can entirely sympethise with - as it's something Thumper used to do if I took a pull when doing fast work. Very scary.

I think to be honest, those of us that say we wouldn't be impressed are being too idealistic, and think about hacking as a way for a 'comp' animal to relax etc. without always taking in to account that not every horse is as easy as we would like.

And knowing you as we do from this forum - how can any of us really judge you? You always seem like the most competent and able horsewoman.
 
Mmmm, hey if it works for YOU, then surely that's your business? If this is what you need to be doing, with YOUR horse, at this time in both your development, then personally I'd give the two fingers up to anyone who interferes.

Sometimes horses, especially mares, go through a blippy period when they're just not listening to the rider and doing strange stuff; my boy's going through a funny stage right now, also the other two in the yard, so I'm walking him out on the ground with a pressure halti (with bridle on the top for insurance purposes), and we've had some really funny looks, people say "oh why aren't you riding, what a waste of time", etc etc, BUT this is what my trainer has recommended for us, for now, and we've had to ignore everyone's snooty nose turned up and just crack on with what we're doing.

There might be other solutions better or worse than draw reins, I don't know; but if, for now, with YOUR situation, this is effective, I'd say go with that, tho' often with some sharper/clever horses you might need to change things around quite a lot!!! So I'd personally have another thing up my sleeve like for instance changing to a martingale or even think about a different noseband? Just to keep on top of the game and keep your horse guessing.

Good luck anyway.
 
QR

At the moment I am definitely a "happy hacker", haven't been to a competition in ages.

If people want to hack out in their draw reins then that is fine. Why should it bother other people? What you do with your own horse is up to you, especially if it makes things safer on the road!
:)
 
amymay said:
This I can entirely sympethise with - as it's something Thumper used to do if I took a pull when doing fast work. Very scary.

I think to be honest, those of us that say we wouldn't be impressed are being too idealistic, and think about hacking as a way for a 'comp' animal to relax etc. without always taking in to account that not every horse is as easy as we would like..
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I do completely understand this, and that is what the comment was "it would be nice to see a horse have some downtime". Hacking is very much downtime for madam, she spends most of it poking her nose and generally being nosey (even with drawreins on ;) ) and walking along pretty much on a loose contact. They just give me that support should she decide to be a monster!!

amymay said:
And knowing you as we do from this forum - how can any of us really judge you? You always seem like the most competent and able horsewoman.
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Hmm, that is why this forum can be dangerous ;) :D
 
KatB said:
She is fit and well, she is an ideal weight, has a shiny coat, has a professionally fitted saddle, has never been ridden in a strong bit/noseband/bridle, gets her back and teeth checked regularly. How many people who keep "leisure horses" ride unfit/overweight horses/horses with badly fitted tack/aren't shod regularly enough/not technically sound etc etc, yet get no judgement because they "love their horse", but don't have the knowledge to care for it correctly?! :p

People seem to have this blank spot where ANY use of draw reins is bad, even when used in a manner which has minimal impact on the horse, but it makes the user a bad horse owner, when actually I see a lot worse, purely out of ignorance ;) :p
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I’m not sure why there always seems to be this thing where it’s happy hackers with leisure horses VS people with competition horses???
 
I’m not sure why there always seems to be this thing where it’s happy hackers with leisure horses VS people with competition horses???
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Perhaps because there is the (at times) misconception that a competition animal that is fit and well may be sharper than a horse used purely for hacking (but that is a whole other can of worms......)

Those of us who regularly ride out on the roads understand the level of skill involved in riding safely and curtously (SP) something that's not always appreciated by some. But not intimated by the OP.
 
Starbucks said:
I’m not sure why there always seems to be this thing where it’s happy hackers with leisure horses VS people with competition horses???
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It's not a vs at all. Just in my experience it is more likely the pure leisure horse "industry" are more likely to suffer from the above over amateur or hobby competition riders. Obviously, there are examples of both in all area's of the equine industry, even down to *shock horror "pro" riders ;) I am not turning this into a vs arguement at all, as I don't believe it matters what is done with the horse to whether equipment is being used correctly/in the right place or not :)
 
KatB said:
Wow, what a post!

Tbh I did expect this reaction, as for some reason Draw reins seem to be the devil itself.
I have read most of the replies, and thank you for bothering to respond :)

For those who say "the horse is obviosuly not well schooled enough/you're not worthy of having a horse/you're obviosuly incapable of riding such a horse" I find it quite amusing.

My mare is a 5yr old ISH. She isn't particularly "well schooled" yet, as I don't believe in drilling young horses in the school day in day out until they are devoid of any "personality" and bored stiff of the arena. However, we can do a decent enough dressage test, and be competitive around an affiliated SJing track. She can also do lateral work, flying changes, rein back etc etc, even out hacking ;)

However, she is very very sharp. This is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of several people WAY more qualified than probably anyone who has replied to this thread. ;) I have worked on hunting yards/international eventing yards/competition yards, so have ridden my fair share of sharp horses, and she is the first horse I have used draw reins on to hack out with as a conscious choice. This is because 98% of the time, she is lovely, but 2% of the time she can be a complete witch.

Almost all the hacking I do is off road, as was the case yesterday, so it's not buses etc I am worried about, but her sticking her head up so far I can see her star, and therefore loose control and end up going headlong onto farmers crops/dangerous ground which could damage her and me. The way I use them, they are not having ANY impact on her at all (draw reins loose, as I am very capable of working my horse in an outline without them ;) ), until she starts to mess about, when they act a bit like a martingale.

She is fit and well, she is an ideal weight, has a shiny coat, has a professionally fitted saddle, has never been ridden in a strong bit/noseband/bridle, gets her back and teeth checked regularly. How many people who keep "leisure horses" ride unfit/overweight horses/horses with badly fitted tack/aren't shod regularly enough/not technically sound etc etc, yet get no judgement because they "love their horse", but don't have the knowledge to care for it correctly?! :p

People seem to have this blank spot where ANY use of draw reins is bad, even when used in a manner which has minimal impact on the horse, but it makes the user a bad horse owner, when actually I see a lot worse, purely out of ignorance ;) :p
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Perfect post!!!! You`re one of the most competent riders on the forum (IMO) for some people to be rude and arrogant is quite shocking but there is always a hoo ha about draw reins. As you said your mare can be sharp, its better to be safe than sorry!!! :)
 
What a lot of replies on a post about hacking out in draw reins, if I saw you hacking out in draw reins I would say nothing, its none of my business.
Its not like you are beating her to death with a big stick!
Love the horse world, everyone loves to poke their nose and comment!
 
I wouldn't comment, as from your description your horse was clearly working happily. To be honest, I probably wouldn't comment if I saw someone using them badly, as in my experience, it would do no good at all.

Shame on me perhaps, but as the saying goes, you can't educate pork.
 
KatB said:
Wow, what a post!

Tbh I did expect this reaction, as for some reason Draw reins seem to be the devil itself.
I have read most of the replies, and thank you for bothering to respond :)

For those who say "the horse is obviosuly not well schooled enough/you're not worthy of having a horse/you're obviosuly incapable of riding such a horse" I find it quite amusing.

My mare is a 5yr old ISH. She isn't particularly "well schooled" yet, as I don't believe in drilling young horses in the school day in day out until they are devoid of any "personality" and bored stiff of the arena. However, we can do a decent enough dressage test, and be competitive around an affiliated SJing track. She can also do lateral work, flying changes, rein back etc etc, even out hacking ;)

However, she is very very sharp. This is not just my opinion, this is the opinion of several people WAY more qualified than probably anyone who has replied to this thread. ;) I have worked on hunting yards/international eventing yards/competition yards, so have ridden my fair share of sharp horses, and she is the first horse I have used draw reins on to hack out with as a conscious choice. This is because 98% of the time, she is lovely, but 2% of the time she can be a complete witch.

Almost all the hacking I do is off road, as was the case yesterday, so it's not buses etc I am worried about, but her sticking her head up so far I can see her star, and therefore loose control and end up going headlong onto farmers crops/dangerous ground which could damage her and me. The way I use them, they are not having ANY impact on her at all (draw reins loose, as I am very capable of working my horse in an outline without them ;) ), until she starts to mess about, when they act a bit like a martingale.

She is fit and well, she is an ideal weight, has a shiny coat, has a professionally fitted saddle, has never been ridden in a strong bit/noseband/bridle, gets her back and teeth checked regularly. How many people who keep "leisure horses" ride unfit/overweight horses/horses with badly fitted tack/aren't shod regularly enough/not technically sound etc etc, yet get no judgement because they "love their horse", but don't have the knowledge to care for it correctly?! :p

People seem to have this blank spot where ANY use of draw reins is bad, even when used in a manner which has minimal impact on the horse, but it makes the user a bad horse owner, when actually I see a lot worse, purely out of ignorance ;) :p
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I think it really does come down to a question of common sense and personality as to whether a person would contribute their opinion without knowing diddly squat about a horse, and this might cause some people to get wobbly.
People who compete, hunt, work with horses, and have had a good deal of experience with "quirky" horses, will understand and respect a person's decision to ride their horse in whatever they see fit. Largely, they won't seem to comment- I have yet to have someone out hunting/teamchasing come up to me and comment on my tack/gadgets of choice.
People who don't get out so much, or just hack about, are genuinely not as exposed to gadgets and people's need to use them. Gadgets undoubtedly get their bad press and people base opinions on a one sided view of things.
I think the more you have been exposed to fit, working horses with a job outside of riding for pleasure, you become more aware of the different techniques people use on their horses, and respect that, whether you agree or not.
I personally don't have a problem with draw reins when the person riding knows how to use them.
 
blazingsaddles said:
Draw reins have no place in the correct training of a horse.
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I havnt got chance to read all of this as sneaking on at work but can I just add that if the above quote is correct why was it that when I had lessons with one of the top dressage instructors in the country they told me to use draw reins.... ?! I am sure he was not incorrect or people wouldn`t pay ££££ to train with him!


and KatB in answer to your original question in the way you were using the reins I would see no issue, the thing I hate is draw reins hauling the head into the chest with the back end dragging along behind. Used in the correct way draw reins are a useful training aid IMO and I know several people who are confident knowledgeable riders competing at a high level that use them the same way you were :D
 
KatB said:
It's not a vs at all. Just in my experience it is more likely the pure leisure horse "industry" are more likely to suffer from the above over amateur or hobby competition riders. Obviously, there are examples of both in all area's of the equine industry, even down to *shock horror "pro" riders ;) I am not turning this into a vs arguement at all, as I don't believe it matters what is done with the horse to whether equipment is being used correctly/in the right place or not :)
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Think I'm being a bit thick today Kat - didn't understand that much at all!! To me there can't be that much difference between "pure leisure" riders and "amateur or hobby competition riders" in terms of how their horses behave on a hack?? Or do you mean that hackers are more likely to have issues with draw reins? I think this is probably true, but don't think that happy hacker horses would be any less sharp than a horse in lower level competition, in terms of fitness anyway, although I suppose if someone only wanted to hack then they might (in general) get something that was fairly sensible to hack.. sorry i'm babling!!
 
Spudlet said:
As long as you weren't winching the horse's head in and everyone looked happy, I'd not think much of it. Obviously if the horse was having its head pulled to its chest despite it behaving itself, I'd be a bit more judgey:p

Any tool or bit of tack is only as good as the person using it. I've seen some hideous injuries inflicted by nothing more than a headcollar.
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This! Although I have never hacked in them myself I perhaps would if I felt my mare needed more work (we are mostly happy hackers / bit of dressage here and there) as her old habit is to stick head up like a giraffe to evade contact from walk to halt or if she is standing and wants to move. The DR would just encourage a more 'appropriate' response. Plus we dont have a school so have to school out on hacks.

Certainly if they are loose and only employed when necessary then I cant see the harm. I probably would look twice at them if I saw someone hacking but as we have seen very recently on here people are all too quick to judge and not think about the 'whys'!
 
Once upon a time yes but not anymore. It isn't fair to judge other people or their horses when you don't know the situation. If it helps then why not. I considered using them to hack my horse last summer when he was having frequent unpredictable teenage tantrums and if I hadn't got a handle on him then I may have tried but I did worry the restriction could make him worse.

Its horses for courses, there are far worse things going on than draw reins if it helps keep you safe and enjoy a nice ride so what.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazingsaddles
Draw reins have no place in the correct training of a horse.

You want to tell that to Carl Hester, Emile Faurie, Dane Rawlins, Andrew Gould, Gareth Hughes then amongst some????????? Obviously the top riders in the world and in our country are doing something wrong!!!!!!!!


Yeah, I would like to add Pippa and William Funnel and Lucinda/Clayton to that list.

The horse I offer to you blazing saddles- or any other takers. Has evented to intermediate and advanced medium dressage. I hunted him for a few seasons. But he had to stop eventing as he would come out the start box and I would have no control. We sent him to a proffesional uk olympic rider, who did two OI's on him and said, don't take it xc. He is now 21 and still in work. He lives in a snaffle and 95% of his work is hacking.

When you reach the off road you have no hope. There is no breaking, anything in the way just gets jumped or pushed through.You learn to duck quick. He isn't in pain. DR just allow us (grooms included) a slight safety blanket. He enjoys his work, the alternative is he sits and rots in a field. No thanks. Nor does he deserve to never leave the school! The DR arent used for a forced incorrect outline, he is checked out on self carriage, they are used for safety. he weighs 550kg I weigh 60kg.

I agree with so many of the comments- both pro and against the use. But to the OP I wouldnt comment. Not up to me and like said I don't know the situation. But I also wouldnt pass judgement should I say be hacking with someone and say "that horse is clearly not trained/rider crap etc" The horse world needs more open mindness.

As i said before if the rider had no "snaffle" rein and was purely on the draw rein I may, if I was in that mood, give an opinion. But as long as the horse is fed, watered and not beaten isnt it the lesser?! I maybe wrong... Whatever
 
OOh I've got a headache now reading this thread - there have been some really informative replies and the usual HHO up my own arse replies I wish there was a filter for the latter so I could enjoy the thread .
 
haha some of the opinions on this post make me realise why i love the horsey world so much :D its the complete black and white of "draw reins are always bad and it means you are crap and can't ride and your horse is poorly schooled"... i do agree that a lot of people use draw reins incorrectly. i also think that a lot of people use other gadgets (bits, nosebands, martingales etc etc) incorrectly - but nobody really comments on this...


FWIW i have no problems with draw reins if they are being used for a purpose- my little TB (now out on loan) could be a complete loon to hack out. not because he's badly schooled but because he has a small pea brain :D now i am quite capable of riding him in a snaffle and staying on...but he would turn himself inside out- put him in draw reins (loose unless needed) and he'd be fine- if he started threatening to perform spanish riding school moves the draw reins would stop this by gaining control of his head and he would calm right down.
my current comp horse is also super sharp- not so much hacking, but in the school he went through a ridiculously spooky phase- spinning and shoulder dropping for fun- often getting me off. it was getting to the point where i couldn't get anything done and he was doing it more often because he was 'winning'. i then rode him in draw reins for 3 days - he has hardly spooked since...it helped to break a cycle of bad behaviour and stopped the spooks being as bad...
i applaud people who can always ride safely and effectively in just a simple snaffle and loose cavesson- but please spare a thought for us mere mortals while you are at it? :p
 
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