hard nudging - what does it mean? how can I stop it?

[hanna1983]

hi peeps,

my gelding is nudging me. this has only started a few days ago. he is really rough with it too.

can you tell me what he is trying to tell me and how i can make him stop? im getting bruises all over

pls dont tell me to hit him or slap him as i will never do that.

thanks.

 

[samstar]

nudge him back harder to show whose boss, he's taking the pee I think

 

[hanna1983]

i read that i should nudge him back with my head (and hat on of course) i tried that yesterday and it got a little better. but i dont want to hurt him.

 

[ruscara]

Mine does it, and I am certain that they are communicating something, not taking the pee. There would be no reason for them to do it, except to communicate, and I honestly don't believe that they understand the concept of 'taking the pee'.
Mine does it when he wants to go out, when he is hungry, when he wants a treat - a 'nudge' is just that: a nudge.
Try to see when your horse does it, and what he might be expecting (dinner, turnout ...) and wants you to hurry up with!

 

[ester]

He is seriously invading your personal space and needs to know that isn't acceptable as it will probably only get worse and lead to barginess. You have to explain to him in some way that its not acceptable

With our mare (who was babyed from a young age) I think we would say no (v sternly) and ask her to back away from your space but nudging her on the shoulder and saying back and repeating until she got the msg, she isn't the sort of horse you could hit for it as she would stress about it and get worse.

you do have to match the intensity of your 'nudge' to what they are doing it to you though and there is little worse than a horse who starts walking all over you.

 

[hanna1983]

hi ruscara, there was a mistake with his feed and for the past few days he has been on nuts only which made him hyper active. also since i am working late, he never got his dinner before 8pm and that is usually when he nudges me. i have the routine of coming to the stable, then grooming him, then lunging him and then giving him his dinner. do you think he is just telling me that he is hungry and needs the food right away? anyway, i have asked the stable now to feed him his dinner for me at the same time as the other horses. maybe that will help. was just wondering really what other reasons there might be. it really hurts when he does it and he needs to stop. i got bruises all over!

 

[Smurphy]

my gelding does it too, when he wants his feed or wants turning out, its his way of telling to get a move on!!!

 

[Elle1085]

do you give him treats or feed him by hand at all? could you not just tap him on the nose when he does it? i know you don't want to hit your horse but his nudging is going to cause you an injury if you let it carry on and whether it is because he wants something or not it is still rude and a bad habit and i'm not saying you should beat your horse or anything close

 

[Madam_max]

I think it's rude to be honest and he shouldn't do it especially if he if bruising you. Tell him off and push him away.

 

[hanna1983]

hi Elle,
i do give my horse treats when he has done well yes. for example when i have groomed him and he gave me all 4 feet for cleaning without a problem then he gets a piece of carrot or apple. i have done so since i have had him (2 weeks now).


i guess i should see if it he is better tonight as he will have been fed already. if he still does it, what could be the reason cause then it wont be him asking to get a move on with feeding him...

 

[Madam_max]

I might sound a bit mean here ( I really don't mean to) Stop giving him treats. He should be expected to pick his feet up for you in my opinion, it's not really worthy of an reward. I do give treats, but after I have ridden and that's it really.

 

[ester]

scratch the treats for a bit, give him a pat and say good boy instead. (I only do treats when competing or after work to do his stretching exercises)

how old is he by the way?

 

[Elle1085]

i would be giving him treats in a bucket or on the floor so he doesn't think he's going to get something out of you. i wouldn't worry about whats causing it i don't think its generally associated with pain its just a rude and annoying habit some horses have

 

[cptrayes]

Hanna if you have had him only two weeks and he is hurting you, you are being very naive when you say you don't want to hurt him. Have you seen how hard horses hit each other, with feet, teeth, shoulders etc. ?

He will still love you if you lay down the boundaries, which do NOT included hitting you. He isn't "nudging" you he is HITTING you with his head and causing bruises as if a human used his fist. In fact if you reassure him that you are in charge - and yes I mean hit him when he hits you, or at the very lest yell at him - then he will love you MORE not less.

At the moment he is a poor insecure fellow who has moved to a new owner (and home?) and doesn't know who his leader is. A horse without a leader is a stressed horse. Sort this now, by being less soft, or you risk him becoming seriously nasty and walking all over you, probably literally.

You think by not hitting him for hitting you that you are being kind to him. You aren't, it's very unfair for him not to know where he stands. You can bet your bottom dollar that he doesn't get away with that with the livery staff when you aren't around!

The answer to a horse who bullies you for his food is to make him WAIT not give it to him earlier. He's not a pet. Take control before he gets labelled as a nasty horse!

 

[Weezy]

Completely agree!

And no treats!!! I give after riding too, when my horse has pleased me, but never at other times. I will not tolerate being used as a scratching post either, that gets a firm no and a shove - remember, he is a LOT bigger and stronger than you, you need to lay the boundaries, not him!

 

[hanna1983]

Hi Madam Max, Ester,
thanks I will see how he behaves without treats for silly things.
he is only 4 and a half years old now.

cptrayes,
i dont know what not wanting to hit my horse has to do with being naive. if that is something you are comfortable with doing, then that is your business. i simply cant and wont hit him - ever - and i dont think that is the right way forward either in his case. he has not been treated well in the past.

i can do no treats, a firm NO and pushing him out of "my space" or nudging him back. i dont want him to fear me, i want him to behave.

 

[Chico Mio]

Agree with cptrayes totally. He's trying to sort out where his place is in this new 'herd' and you are enforcing his belief that he can be above you in the order. He is invading your space and pushing you about to demonstrate he can go where he likes and you have to put up with it. The first thing is to say NO! very firmly if he nudges you and make him get out of your space.

A horse who knows his place is a happy horse - trite but true

 

[ester]

I agree with chico mio, I think animals with firm boundaries are happier for it.

As I say you need to equal the force he is applying and teach him the word 'back' too. hitting the anglo baby mare as a youngster prob wouldn't have worked but she needed some serious boundaries and we went back to basics with groundwork etc she soon got the idea.

My chunky boy is a bit different he is just very occasionally bolshy but I absolutely will not tolerate it, he is 16 and knows better.

 

[ibot]

i have spoken to my friend hanna about the pushing and its typical for the breed. paddy is doing to to but not hard. she says to push back so i am going to try it with him. it will be ok.

 

[Madam_max]

Eh?

 

[ester]

and the award for most comprehendable post 16.9.09................

Je ne comprends pas aussi

 

[camilla4]

[ QUOTE ]
Agree with cptrayes totally. He's trying to sort out where his place is in this new 'herd' and you are enforcing his belief that he can be above you in the order. He is invading your space and pushing you about to demonstrate he can go where he likes and you have to put up with it. The first thing is to say NO! very firmly if he nudges you and make him get out of your space.

A horse who knows his place is a happy horse - trite but true

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that if he is new he is trying to find out where the boundaries are and how far he can push you! Be very firm with him right from the outset or, as has already been said, you will have a horse who not only bullies you but is very insecure and unhappy too! No need to belt him or anything but a like-for-like push is absolutely in order! And definitely stop the hand-fed treats for now!

 

[ester]

now my post looks stupid madam max!

 

[Madam_max]

I changed it

I thought it was too confusing for some

 

[ester]

 

[Enfys]

It is rude, they may be trying to tell you something but it still isn't on, I make my horses, and the foals, back right up away from me when they do it.

I also don't allow them to rest their heads on me, that's another dominance issue.

 

[Madam_max]

I think the only thing they are telling you is feed/spoil me, I am in charge!

 

[chestnut cob]

[ QUOTE ]
hi Elle,
i do give my horse treats when he has done well yes. for example when i have groomed him and he gave me all 4 feet for cleaning without a problem then he gets a piece of carrot or apple. i have done so since i have had him (2 weeks now).


i guess i should see if it he is better tonight as he will have been fed already. if he still does it, what could be the reason cause then it wont be him asking to get a move on with feeding him...

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple of things stand out for me with this thread...

1. the horse is walking all over you with the nudging. Sorry to say it but push him back if he pushes you. It's bl00dy rude. If he invades your space, then send him back out of it. He needs to learn to respect your space.

2. Stop feeding him treats.

3. Stop giving him an apple for picking his feet up. He does not think like you - he does not associate the apple or carrot with picking his feet up, he just knows that sometimes he gets treats after he's done it. Feeding them will not make him think "I will make sure I pick my feet up like a good boy". Your horse should pick his feet up without any argument, he does not need to be rewarded for this. He should also stand to be groomed and most definitely not be nudging and pushing you for his feed.

4. Feeding him early will not stop him from barging you. He will still nudge you because he doesn't think like you..he doesn't think he has had his dinner so that's it. He will just ask you for more.

5. What sort of work do you do with him? I'd vary his work load so he does more than just lunge to keep his brain occupied and stop him from expecting the same routine of grooming, treats, lunging, treats, feet picked out, treats, nudging, dinner....

Sorry if this sounds harsh but horses are too big to allow them to push you around and you cannot anthropomorphosise him how you are - he isn't trying to tell you anything other than "I know I get food and treats when I am bargy" by nudging you. They're not puppies, you need to get him to respect your space.

 

[Theresa_F]

As others have said, time to put in place the boundaries before he gets worse. I find that they are happy when they have firm but fair boundaries and feel more secure.

My two do give me very tiny nudges - they are both young and it is to get my attention or for me to continue with the ear scratches but they are never hard and so I allow these. If they ever did hard nudges they would be driven back with body language, a growl and if daft enough to continue, a pinch on the chest or a thump the instant they did it.

I do feed treats - not many, and again our two stand and take them very gently - if they did not, they would not get them.

At the moment, we have very little grass and I am feeding and putting hay in twice a day. They have taken to pushing by the gate and me being mobbed when I go in the field, hence the shavings fork is now held in an agressive manner to drive them back (and if they don't they will get a poke with it). They must then stand and wait for grub to be put before them. Yes they are hungry and pushing me to get to the food, but is totally out of order and hence the manners are being put back as they should be.

 

[eahotson]

Find a good natural horsemanship person. Kelly Marks associates are good. They are wonderful in setting boundaries and ground work in general.They are non violent.I can understand your reluctance to hit him if he has been abused in the past but you must not allow him to hit you either.Horses are very big strong animals and you will get hurt if you are not careful.