hanna1983
Well-Known Member
thanks ibot. pushing back is fine, will do that. speak later x
hard nudging - what does it mean? how can I stop it?
- Thread starter hanna1983
- Start date
hanna1983
Well-Known Member
i am not getting useful answers here guys. maybe its because i didnt ask the question right, but i am going to go back to the professionals and those that know him as i feel they will be able to give me the right guidance. thanks anyway.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
This is neutral advice there is a huge range of us on here and a wealth of knowledge and you have been given a variety of ways to deal with this problem.?
Feeding treats when they do well is fine but basic conditioning in rats has shown that animals learn quicker if they have to work harder for treats (ie they don't get treated every time).
Hey ho.
Feeding treats when they do well is fine but basic conditioning in rats has shown that animals learn quicker if they have to work harder for treats (ie they don't get treated every time).
Hey ho.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
grr thats twice in this thread my posts don't make sense now *steps away from keyboard*
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
"he has not been treated well in the past."
Sorry Hanna, but by naive, I mean that you are the wrong person to have bought a horse with a bad history if you have to come here to ask strangers how to manage him, and then disagree with what most of them tell you what you need to do.
Get professional help quickly before you spoil the horse even more than he is spoilt already.
Sorry Hanna, but by naive, I mean that you are the wrong person to have bought a horse with a bad history if you have to come here to ask strangers how to manage him, and then disagree with what most of them tell you what you need to do.
Get professional help quickly before you spoil the horse even more than he is spoilt already.
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
i am not getting useful answers here guys. maybe its because i didnt ask the question right, but i am going to go back to the professionals and those that know him as i feel they will be able to give me the right guidance. thanks anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
What you mean is that we didn't agree with you and tell you that your horse is trying to tell you he loves you, or he hurts somewhere, or some other human emotion that is being projected on to him?
As someone else says, a horse is too big to spoil.
The Kelly Marks associates are very good, I've used them before for things. They won't come out and tell you your horse loves you either though, they will show you how you should manage him and behave around him so that he behaves correctly. I had one out last year and she spent an hour showing me how what I was doing was *causing* my horse's bad behaviour, then showed me how to change it. Don't expect them to come and be fluffy bunny huggers, they are very pragmatic and Monty Roberts is actually quite forceful with his horses if you watch him in action. Horses don't respect you for being "nice", they respect you when you teach them the boundaries they need to stick to and your reinforce those boundaries.
i am not getting useful answers here guys. maybe its because i didnt ask the question right, but i am going to go back to the professionals and those that know him as i feel they will be able to give me the right guidance. thanks anyway.
[/ QUOTE ]
What you mean is that we didn't agree with you and tell you that your horse is trying to tell you he loves you, or he hurts somewhere, or some other human emotion that is being projected on to him?
As someone else says, a horse is too big to spoil.
The Kelly Marks associates are very good, I've used them before for things. They won't come out and tell you your horse loves you either though, they will show you how you should manage him and behave around him so that he behaves correctly. I had one out last year and she spent an hour showing me how what I was doing was *causing* my horse's bad behaviour, then showed me how to change it. Don't expect them to come and be fluffy bunny huggers, they are very pragmatic and Monty Roberts is actually quite forceful with his horses if you watch him in action. Horses don't respect you for being "nice", they respect you when you teach them the boundaries they need to stick to and your reinforce those boundaries.
hanna1983
Well-Known Member
i know now that asking complete strangers for advise was a mistake thanks which is why i go to professionals now and not wannabe horse whisperers
woolyjumper
Well-Known Member
I imagine the professionals will tell you the same thing that the very knowledgeable people on this forum have said - you need to establish firm boundaries with your new horse before his behaviour escalates out of control (and it will). At 4 yrs, your horse is very impressionable. I'm not going to add to the advice you have been given, as I think everything has been said. Is this your first horse? I really hope you get it sorted. And I agree, speak to some experienced people (yard owner. instructer?) and ask for their help.
hanna1983
Well-Known Member
i dont see very knowledgable people unfortunately. i see people who look down at me because he is my first horse and they think they know it all. so i am off going to speak to people who have an understanding how hard it can be to have your first horse and who understand where i am coming from when i am saying i am worried about being forceful with him. people here seem to ahve forgotten how it was when they got their first horse.
and to all thsoe who think i shouldnt have bought him as my first horse because he had a bad past: he needs a safe home where he isnt neglected and mistreated and while i might be inexperienced in owning a horse, i will do everything i can to provide what he needs and learn what i need to learn specific to him. thats all i have to say.
and to all thsoe who think i shouldnt have bought him as my first horse because he had a bad past: he needs a safe home where he isnt neglected and mistreated and while i might be inexperienced in owning a horse, i will do everything i can to provide what he needs and learn what i need to learn specific to him. thats all i have to say.
Theresa_F
Well-Known Member
Yep my OH is having some lessons with a NH instructor - Monty Roberts/Kelly Marks school with his young clydesdale. She is very nice, but is a no nonsense approach to horses.
Farra is learning very fast that she is a big girl, who does a lot of what she wants most of the time, eat and mooch about (as she is so easy we tend not to be so strict) and when asked to back up, respect space, be careful where she goes with her huge feet etc was most put out. She is very clumsy by her nature and this can't be allowed to continue around people.
The instructor made life uncomfortable with pushing back and body moves until she had no choice but to do as she was told - no hitting, but she was firmly dealt with until she did back up round poles etc.
This is what is needed - taught respect and no daft things about her emotions - she is a horse that needs to respect and obey when asked to do something for the hour or so a day when she is not free to do her own thing.
Maybe this is the answer you are seeking? Get in a NH professional type to put you and him on the right path.
Farra is learning very fast that she is a big girl, who does a lot of what she wants most of the time, eat and mooch about (as she is so easy we tend not to be so strict) and when asked to back up, respect space, be careful where she goes with her huge feet etc was most put out. She is very clumsy by her nature and this can't be allowed to continue around people.
The instructor made life uncomfortable with pushing back and body moves until she had no choice but to do as she was told - no hitting, but she was firmly dealt with until she did back up round poles etc.
This is what is needed - taught respect and no daft things about her emotions - she is a horse that needs to respect and obey when asked to do something for the hour or so a day when she is not free to do her own thing.
Maybe this is the answer you are seeking? Get in a NH professional type to put you and him on the right path.
sportsmansB
Well-Known Member
You risk your horse starting to take control of your relationship
Do you think that horses in the field don't get physical with one another when their space is invaded? What do you think kicking is about? If you don't nip this kind of behaviour in the bud then your horse could well see you as a 'soft touch' and start pushing the limits all over the place.
You should get him fed with the other horses as he doesn't understand why he has to wait- as long as there is enough time to digest his food before you do any exercise with him
But if you are giving him treats and allowing him to get away with bolshy behaviour, especially at such a young age, it will only get worse - he needs to know his place and he will be much more secure in his mind once he does.
Honestly- its not mean, its just true. Well trained large dogs can do people and kids damage if they jump up on them- so they have to be trained not to- same with your horse!!
Do you think that horses in the field don't get physical with one another when their space is invaded? What do you think kicking is about? If you don't nip this kind of behaviour in the bud then your horse could well see you as a 'soft touch' and start pushing the limits all over the place.
You should get him fed with the other horses as he doesn't understand why he has to wait- as long as there is enough time to digest his food before you do any exercise with him
But if you are giving him treats and allowing him to get away with bolshy behaviour, especially at such a young age, it will only get worse - he needs to know his place and he will be much more secure in his mind once he does.
Honestly- its not mean, its just true. Well trained large dogs can do people and kids damage if they jump up on them- so they have to be trained not to- same with your horse!!
hanna1983
Well-Known Member
thanks Theresa
that actually is helpful. no hitting or nastyness just showing me the right way of handling him. is what i need. i will try the changes re the food and also nudging him back and keeping him out of my space. if that doesnt help im gonna get an instructor to have a look at him and give me advise
that actually is helpful. no hitting or nastyness just showing me the right way of handling him. is what i need. i will try the changes re the food and also nudging him back and keeping him out of my space. if that doesnt help im gonna get an instructor to have a look at him and give me advise
hanna1983
Well-Known Member
thanks SportsmanB.
that answers one of my questions re the feeding time. i have already put that in place from today on.
that answers one of my questions re the feeding time. i have already put that in place from today on.
woolyjumper
Well-Known Member
No one is looking down at you because he is your first horse, everyone on here has had to start somewhere. They may, however, be unimpressed at the fact that you seem to be unwilling to take good advice. Your heart is clearly in the right place, but green 4yo horses with bad pasts don't generally make good first horses. Your best chance of making it work is to accept as much advice as you can, and appreciate how long and hard the process is going to be. Get at least weekly sessions with a good instructor and ask for a realistic assessment of your compatibility. I'm not looking down at you at all, I'm speaking from experience - from the mistakes that I have made myself in the past!! Good luck, and I hope that horse ownership stays fun and enjoyable for you.
littlemisslauren
Well-Known Member
I really hope you do take some advice on board from this thread. People on here are very knowledgable and experienced.
I can remember how hard it is to have your first horse. I was 14 with a non horsey family and she was kept at home. I didnt know about places like this back then and if i had i think things would have been alot more simple for me and my mare. I didnt want to hit her / be rough at all. I fussed over her too much. In one week she smashed a fence, broke my friends fingers after sodding off when she was being lunged and double barrelled me in the knee (almost breaking my leg). After that week i woke up, when she was a sh*t she did get a smack, she was growled at quite frequently
and i made her wait for dinner / turnout etc. She worked at my pace. Within a month i had a completely transformed pony on the ground. And i did that on my own. At 14.
Do not discard advice simply because the people trying to help are more experienced than you. It is very childish and ungrateful. IMO.
I can remember how hard it is to have your first horse. I was 14 with a non horsey family and she was kept at home. I didnt know about places like this back then and if i had i think things would have been alot more simple for me and my mare. I didnt want to hit her / be rough at all. I fussed over her too much. In one week she smashed a fence, broke my friends fingers after sodding off when she was being lunged and double barrelled me in the knee (almost breaking my leg). After that week i woke up, when she was a sh*t she did get a smack, she was growled at quite frequently
Do not discard advice simply because the people trying to help are more experienced than you. It is very childish and ungrateful. IMO.
Enfys
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
i dont see very knowledgable people unfortunately. i see people who look down at me because he is my first horse and they think they know it all. so i am off going to speak to people who have an understanding how hard it can be to have your first horse and who understand where i am coming from when i am saying i am worried about being forceful with him. people here seem to ahve forgotten how it was when they got their first horse.
and to all thsoe who think i shouldnt have bought him as my first horse because he had a bad past: he needs a safe home where he isnt neglected and mistreated and while i might be inexperienced in owning a horse, i will do everything i can to provide what he needs and learn what i need to learn specific to him. thats all i have to say.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right then, as far as I can see you asked a question and people gave their opinions and experiences which amounts to advice if you care to take it like that. I don't see people being patronising at all, sorry if you see it like that. Words on a screen can so easily be misconstrued.
Some of the most oft given advice here is go to a professional (Trainer, Vet, Farrier, Saddler, whatever) and that no-one knows your horse better than yourself or those around him. Members of a forum, ANY forum, can only comment on the information they have been given, they can't SEE exactly what it is a horse or handler does or doesn't do.
I would be interested to hear how things go after you have seen a trainer.
Good Luck with him.
i dont see very knowledgable people unfortunately. i see people who look down at me because he is my first horse and they think they know it all. so i am off going to speak to people who have an understanding how hard it can be to have your first horse and who understand where i am coming from when i am saying i am worried about being forceful with him. people here seem to ahve forgotten how it was when they got their first horse.
and to all thsoe who think i shouldnt have bought him as my first horse because he had a bad past: he needs a safe home where he isnt neglected and mistreated and while i might be inexperienced in owning a horse, i will do everything i can to provide what he needs and learn what i need to learn specific to him. thats all i have to say.
[/ QUOTE ]
Some of the most oft given advice here is go to a professional (Trainer, Vet, Farrier, Saddler, whatever) and that no-one knows your horse better than yourself or those around him. Members of a forum, ANY forum, can only comment on the information they have been given, they can't SEE exactly what it is a horse or handler does or doesn't do.
I would be interested to hear how things go after you have seen a trainer.
Good Luck with him.
bensababy
Well-Known Member
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
Theresa_F
Well-Known Member
I hope it helps, and once piece of advice on experience, when I got Chancer he was only 16 months when I bought him home - my first baby horse. At 18 months he started to push the boundaries, jumping on me, nudging hard and being a ill mannered thug.
Had he been older, he would have been given a hard push, an elbow in the ribs to get him off me but as he was a baby I was not sure what to do.
I got in a very good instructor, experienced with babies - his first question was "how long as he been like this". When I replied 2 weeks, he said "thank god, I can sort this today, it is when people wait 6 months that the problem is complicated and takes weeks to sort".
Only a suggestion, but don't wait too long if you feel you need help.
I got the NH instructor who comes out to my OH from the following site http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/ if you go to the specialist training tab, you can search for someone local to you.
I am going to put my OH on the perfect manners course with Farra as this is something he is very interested in - controlling his horse in a mutal partnership where she understands that he is the boss but they can also be good companions.
Had he been older, he would have been given a hard push, an elbow in the ribs to get him off me but as he was a baby I was not sure what to do.
I got in a very good instructor, experienced with babies - his first question was "how long as he been like this". When I replied 2 weeks, he said "thank god, I can sort this today, it is when people wait 6 months that the problem is complicated and takes weeks to sort".
Only a suggestion, but don't wait too long if you feel you need help.
I got the NH instructor who comes out to my OH from the following site http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/ if you go to the specialist training tab, you can search for someone local to you.
I am going to put my OH on the perfect manners course with Farra as this is something he is very interested in - controlling his horse in a mutal partnership where she understands that he is the boss but they can also be good companions.
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
QR
My advice would be to sell him, or at the very least have constant professional supervision.
It is obvious to me, that you are not competent enough to handle a 4yr old which has, as you say, behavioural issues, without some real and immediate help.
Having read your previous threads, you don't really have a lot of experience - sadly, loving your horse and never ever wanting to hit him, while laudable, are not what your horse needs.
In the two weeks that you have had him, his behaviour has deteriorated to the point where you are posting for advice on a forum (although why you bothered when you are not listening to the very experienced people on here, I don't know).
For your poor horse's sake, get help now, before you are even more frightened of him, or damaged by him.
S
My advice would be to sell him, or at the very least have constant professional supervision.
It is obvious to me, that you are not competent enough to handle a 4yr old which has, as you say, behavioural issues, without some real and immediate help.
Having read your previous threads, you don't really have a lot of experience - sadly, loving your horse and never ever wanting to hit him, while laudable, are not what your horse needs.
In the two weeks that you have had him, his behaviour has deteriorated to the point where you are posting for advice on a forum (although why you bothered when you are not listening to the very experienced people on here, I don't know).
For your poor horse's sake, get help now, before you are even more frightened of him, or damaged by him.
S
hanna1983
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
bensababy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
[/ QUOTE ]
Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.
Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional.
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
[/ QUOTE ]
Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.
Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional.
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
[/ QUOTE ]
Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.
Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pssst I worked in the industry as a 'professional' for a couple of decades, but I'm pretty sure she won't like my advice either.
S
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
[/ QUOTE ]
Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.
Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pssst I worked in the industry as a 'professional' for a couple of decades, but I'm pretty sure she won't like my advice either.
S
bensababy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
[/ QUOTE ]
Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.
Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pssst I worked in the industry as a 'professional' for a couple of decades, but I'm pretty sure she won't like my advice either.
S
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
[/ QUOTE ]
Well saying above that your not getting any helpful advice on here and your best off going to "professionals" to me sounds ungreatful. To me that is a sucky attitude when people take time out to comment.
Good luck with your horse. I would offer my advice but its not professional.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pssst I worked in the industry as a 'professional' for a couple of decades, but I'm pretty sure she won't like my advice either.
S
[/ QUOTE ]
hanna1983
Well-Known Member
By the way, just got advice from my yard owner and he said it is not a big deal and will disappear once he gets exercised enough. And for the above person: to say his behaviour has deteriorated to a point where I have to seek advice on here, I never said it is a big thing. He started nudging, I wondered why that was all. If you lot want to jump on the bandwagon and all be horrible you do that. You made me feel like I had to defend myself right from the start! And then I am being judged as unfriendly. Thanks very much.
Chico Mio
Antedeluvian
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
[/ QUOTE ]
You are right we don't know you.
Only by what you post on here can we judge you.
Same as everybody who uses this forum.
[ QUOTE ]
what an ungreatful OP. people have been nothing but friendly and offered you advice.. and you throw it back at them. Good luck if you have that attitude... it stinks.
[/ QUOTE ]
you don't know me so don't judge me. That attitude stinks just as much
[/ QUOTE ]
You are right we don't know you.
Only by what you post on here can we judge you.
Same as everybody who uses this forum.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
Your YO said it would disappear when he gets enough exercise? Wow, does he have a crystal ball? Sorry to sound flippant, but that is not great advice. YOU said that your horse is HURTING you, giving you bruises - if a person was giving you bruises would you be so easy going? you don't have to defend yourself, but plase, see the bigger picture!
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, just got COMPETENT advice from my yard owner and he said it is not a big deal and will disappear once he gets exercised enough. Thanks everyone for making this into a drama. And for the above person: to say his behaviour has deteriorated to a point where I have to seek advice on here, I never said it is a big thing. He started nudging, I wondered why that was all. If you lot want to jump on the bandwagon and all be horrible you do that. You made me feel like I had to defend myself right from the start! And the I am being judged as unfriendly. Thanks very much.
[/ QUOTE ]
In two weeks his behaviour had deteriorated to the point where he is battering you with his head, hard enough to bruise you.
I'd say that's a big thing.
Imagine what he'll be doing in another two weeks if you don't get professional help as soon as possible.
Incidentally owning a yard doesn't make your YO an expert (some are, some aren't), so don't rely on the magic of owning stables/land to confer competence.
Oh - and Bensababy -
S
By the way, just got COMPETENT advice from my yard owner and he said it is not a big deal and will disappear once he gets exercised enough. Thanks everyone for making this into a drama. And for the above person: to say his behaviour has deteriorated to a point where I have to seek advice on here, I never said it is a big thing. He started nudging, I wondered why that was all. If you lot want to jump on the bandwagon and all be horrible you do that. You made me feel like I had to defend myself right from the start! And the I am being judged as unfriendly. Thanks very much.
[/ QUOTE ]
In two weeks his behaviour had deteriorated to the point where he is battering you with his head, hard enough to bruise you.
I'd say that's a big thing.
Imagine what he'll be doing in another two weeks if you don't get professional help as soon as possible.
Incidentally owning a yard doesn't make your YO an expert (some are, some aren't), so don't rely on the magic of owning stables/land to confer competence.
Oh - and Bensababy -
S
Madam_max
Well-Known Member
Well I didn't think I was being nasty
I was being honest.
ruscara
Well-Known Member
Ooops, I think I have now defined myself as 'Fluffy'!
I had no idea that your horse was just a baby and that you hadn't had him long.
Certainly these two facts change my viewpoint, and I agree that you must assert your posiiton in the pecking order with your chap. That is not to say you should be unkind, but firmly let him know that he needs to respect you and your space.
I advised you from the position of someone who has a 24 year old horse whom she has owned for twelve years. We have a certain 'understanding' and I know when he is trying to talk to me.
I had no idea that your horse was just a baby and that you hadn't had him long.
Certainly these two facts change my viewpoint, and I agree that you must assert your posiiton in the pecking order with your chap. That is not to say you should be unkind, but firmly let him know that he needs to respect you and your space.
I advised you from the position of someone who has a 24 year old horse whom she has owned for twelve years. We have a certain 'understanding' and I know when he is trying to talk to me.
sandr
Well-Known Member
Echo cptrayes / chesnut cob / shilasdair / weezy.
This girl (i assume she is young?) will end up in hospital and the poor horse completely screwed up.
Horses don't want or need friends. They want leaders.
This girl (i assume she is young?) will end up in hospital and the poor horse completely screwed up.
Horses don't want or need friends. They want leaders.